World Bank points finger at Jamaica's 'functionally illitera

[Dr.Dudd]

World Bank points finger at Jamaica's 'functionally illiterate'

Haque feels they are partly to be blamed for the country's slow growth rate

BY ALICIA DUNKLEY Sunday Observer staff reporter [email protected]

Sunday, July 12, 2009

THE two-thirds of Jamaica's labour force who are "functionally illiterate" is partly to blame for the country's dismal growth rate, according to the World Bank.

"Besides the one third of potential workers who remain outside of the labour force and are not even looking for jobs; a little over two thirds of those who are in the labour force are functionally illiterate in the sense that they have never taken a test in their lives, not even at the grade nine level," World Bank special representative, Badrul Haque, said last Tuesday during a specially arranged sitting of Parliament at Gordon House in Kingston.

"So you begin to see a reason why countries like Lebanon, despite very high debt, can grow very rapidly and Jamaica has difficulty," he said, pointing to estimates from the Planning Institute of Jamaica which show that labour productivity in the last 35 years have been declining by 1.5 per cent annually. In addition to that, the country's Gross Domestic Product (GDP) growth rate has stood at just about 0.8 per cent annually over the last 35 years.

"If you factor in the fact that population growth has been about 0.5 (per cent) then, really, per capita wise it's been almost flat.

The labour force is an issue to be addressed," Haque said, adding that the number for persons falling into the "functionally illiterate" bracket could be higher taking into account those who chose not to be part of the formal labour force.

In the meantime, the World Bank official said the fact that 80 per cent of the liquid assets held by the financial sector was in government bonds posed a potential systemic risk for the sector.

He further expressed concerns that if the country were to be hit by a category four or five hurricane, it would be very difficult to find the resources internally or externally to cope.

And World Bank country director Yvonne Tsikata said one of the questions the entity posed was whether Jamaica's GDP was being measured correctly, given the large informal sector. She further expressed concern that the high level of investment was at variance with the low growth rates.

"Investment has been 30 per cent of GDP, that's sizeable. The question is what is the composition of that investment and how much is private versus public?

"For the public, has it gone into the areas that would generate the greatest rates of return? That's an issue collectively we need to look at.

"It's very odd to have a situation where you have high investment and low growth, it doesn't add up; there is something strange there," Tsikata said, noting that the World Bank would be producing a country economic report this year.

Parliamentarians were also told that while Jamaica was in fairly good shape in terms of achieving the Millennium Development Goals by 2015, it would not meet targets set for infant and maternal mortality.

"It still remains high, that hasn't changed in the last 20 years," Haque said.

The team met with the parliamentarians to discuss the Jamaica/World Bank Country Partnership Strategy for 2010-2013 in a bid to verify whether they had "correctly identified the critical development challenges in Jamaica" and get feedback on the planned areas of focus over the period.


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[Dr.Dudd]

Re: World Bank points finger at Jamaica's 'functionally illitera

<span style="font-size: 20pt"> Tell something, wasn't it the sister agencyy of the world bank that demanded Jamaica reduce spending and start charging fees for school attendace to the children of the poor that resulted in this newly found discovery??
Now let me see what they are going to demand this time. Knowing that they see the result of their actions iver the decades of involvement with them? </span>

[johnnycakes]

Re: World Bank points finger at Jamaica's 'functionally illi

Well yeah but Doc, consider what it takes to provide an excellent education or the opportunity to get an excellent education. A lot of money.

In a poor country like Jamaica the government just won't devote enough money to the school systems to do that because they can't.

It would take a national program to do that across the nation.

Jamaica would have to adopt a Cuba-style economy to be able to do it and Jamaicans don't want socialism.
To them living in illiteracy is preferable along with a host of other systemic problems.

Isn't there a Venezuelan/ ALBA alternative to the IMF and the World Bank?

[Amberal37]

Re: World Bank points finger at Jamaica's 'functionally illi

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well yeah but Doc, consider what it takes to provide an excellent education or the opportunity to get an excellent education. A lot of money.

In a poor country like Jamaica the government just won't devote enough money to the school systems to do that because they can't.

It would take a national program to do that across the nation.

Jamaica would have to adopt a Cuba-style economy to be able to do it and Jamaicans don't want socialism.
To them living in illiteracy is preferable along with a host of other systemic problems.

Isn't there a Venezuelan/ ALBA alternative to the IMF and the World Bank?

</div></div>

According the the statistics HERE Jamaica's education spending is comparable to other developed countries (You will also see in lesser developed ones that more does not always equate to better).
You will also see that spending more, does not necessarily mean better results (although one can appreciate that there is an effective minimum that must be maintained), better targeting will help.

Socialism will not work for Jamaica. It is evident that the Jamaican people are highly creative - hence the world/reknowned culture, despite it's size. What the government needs to do is facilitate a productive economy - based on capitalistic principles (productivity based on market supply and demand, but regulated by government). There IS demand, this is currently supressed by the current conditions. Similarly the supply is suppressed by the ineffictiveness of the government.

Socialism will encourage the already epidemic subculture of dependency(currently enabled by overseas family remittances).
While there seems to be a high level of non-compliance, lack of respect for structure, most societies (if not all) suffer from these problems, but win over the wider population by enabling self-actualisation(ability to feed, clothe, roof, and then create for self and others).

The Ja government does create a schooling system, and there are an impressive number of schools in Jamaica, (I know that there are many elements that are currently paid for - I can deal discuss that separately).

What the government is not doing, is making sure that the right type of education reaches the pupils. For example the high drop-out rate usually occurs from about the age of 12 onwards, especially with young boys - it needs to find alternate ways of tackling these school dropouts, perhaps by targeting certain skills from an earlier age.
For example, woodwork (carpentry), Fishing, Farming, which all appeal to boys - can all start from an earlier age (say from age 8), so by the time these boys decide to drop-out, they have a skill (from a structured setting) that they can use.
Note that I am NOT advocating child labour, just a way of making these youngsters feel that they can be useful in their environment.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: World Bank points finger at Jamaica's 'functionally illitera

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <span style="font-size: 20pt"> Tell something, wasn't it the sister agencyy of the world bank that demanded Jamaica reduce spending and start charging fees for school attendace to the children of the poor that resulted in this newly found discovery??
Now let me see what they are going to demand this time. Knowing that they see the result of their actions iver the decades of involvement with them? </span> </div></div>

<span style="font-size: 14pt">BS </span>you are blaming the World Bank for suggesting this?
You are flat out lying.
It did come out that the PNP Government were not required to charge fees and the 20% cess that Eddie Blinds charged was optional as well, but was not as onerous as the PNP and the Comrade Media made it out to be.

In any case the argument was for Tertiary Education, by the time you get to this stage it would be impossible to fix the illiteracy rate by sending a few folks to University for free.
To get to a University you have to be at least literate.

This is another great legacy of corrupt PNP Government. The World Bank is only reading and interpreting the reports produced by a Jamaican Government Agency.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: World Bank points finger at Jamaica's 'functionally illi

Show me the statistics thatsupports the statement that Jamaica percapita spending on education is equal to developed countries?/

Now this is a case where statistincs confuses th einterpreter. Jamaica spend 5.3%vof GDP woth a GDP of US$3,000 how does it compare with ither countries with GDP up to 10 times that of Jamaica?
You din't realize that that statementis so far off the table it is not even worth seruious consideration.
In no tyier of education doe Jamaoca come to even 25% of developed countries? Jamaica total tax intake on the basis of it's GDP is not even enough to compare it per capita,even if all was spent on education.

[Amberal37]

Re: World Bank points finger at Jamaica's 'functionally illi

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Show me the statistics thatsupports the statement that Jamaica percapita spending on education is equal to developed countries?/

Now this is a case where statistincs confuses th einterpreter. Jamaica spend 5.3%vof GDP woth a GDP of US$3,000 how does it compare with ither countries with GDP up to 10 times that of Jamaica?
You din't realize that that statementis so far off the table it is not even worth seruious consideration.
In no tyier of education doe Jamaoca come to even 25% of developed countries? Jamaica total tax intake on the basis of it's GDP is not even enough to compare it per capita,even if all was spent on education. </div></div>

Running late for my bed now...have early start but...

In applying statistics one has to use a measure that can be compared, if you use <span style="font-weight: bold">absolute </span>terms where you compare the U$Dspend per citizen in one country against another, you also need to take account of the worth of the dollar in that country compared to the other
(i.e. maybe in one country you can buy a loaf of bread for 50cent, while in another it is $1.50 - commonly known as purchasing power parity(PPP) - for example teacher's salary and cost of materials used in Ja, can be lower than that in US or other developed countries.

Education can ultimately be compared to that of reinvestment as a proportion of the total productivity (i.e. GDP). In a listed company, this can be % cost of R&amp;D, or in output % of dividend that a company can pay out to it's investor.

A rate, is a better indicator, than an absolute (or even adjusted absolute such as PPP), as it takes account of volume (total output/production - which is meant to be the TOTAL value of all goods and services produced by country), Vs. Size of population, relative to each country (a ratio can also be crudely used to determine the average salary that a person can expect to earn (e.g. cost of labour for that country).

So absolute values will not go far enough to give an effective indicator.

By the way, Ja.s GDP is $7,400USD for 2008, not $3000

[johnnycakes]

Re: World Bank points finger at Jamaica's 'functionally illi

.......&quot; What the government needs to do is facilitate a productive economy - based on capitalistic principles (productivity based on market supply and demand, but regulated by government)&quot;



Amberal,
Capitalism does not work to alleviate conditions of poverty. It works to amass profits for those at the top of the economic pyramid in which the bulk of the people in Third World capitalist countries are poor and in perpetuity.

The Jamaican government is part of the problem in that it unequivocally supports capitalism as do most political parties in capitalist countries.

The parties are in the pockets of the wealthy and will do nothing to change the status quo.

For proof, try to find more than a very few countries that are exceptions to this rule. If and when you do you will see that the economic model they followed will not fit Jamaica.

You are rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic trying to make capitalism work in Jamaica.


Here also is an excerpt from a Paul Street dissertation on reimagining socialism:
Socialism or Barbarism If We're Lucky&quot;

First, because Karl Marx, Frederick Engels, and Rosa Luxembourg were right: humanity either transcends capitalist class rule by constructing a new genuinely social order based on democratic principles or it falls into permanent disaster, tyranny and decline. Failure to develop and implement a radical alternative to the profits system and its fake, corporate-managed &quot;democracy&quot; will bring us (in no short order) to what Arundhati Roy calls &quot;the endgame of humanity.&quot;[1] The technical, organizational, and cultural forces of production, distribution, pollution destruction, and social/thought/ population- control that have emerged under the direction and command of capital and the capitalist state have turned that command into an ever-more imminent existential threat not just to meaningful democracy and (intimately related) to the very survival of the species. [2] The Hungarian Marxist Ivan Meszaros was right to update Luxembourg for an age of incipient ecological catastrophe: its &quot;socialism or barbarism if we're lucky.&quot; Of course, the barbarism is well underway and has been for some time. As Meszaros put things in 2001:

&quot;Many of the problems we have to confront - from chronic structural unemployment to major political/military conflicts...as well as the ever more widespread ecological destruction in evidence everywhere - required concerted action in the very near future...We are running out of time...&quot;

&quot;Those who talk about the ‘third way' [between capitalism and socialism and under corporate-neoliberal state-capitalist management, P.S.] as the solution to our dilemma, asserting that there can be no room for the revival of a radical mass movement, either want to deceive us cynically by calling their slavish acceptance of the ruling order ‘the third way,' or fail to realize the gravity of the situation, putting their faith in a wishfully non-conflictual positive outcome that has been promised for nearly a century but never approximated by even one inch. The uncomfortable truth of the matter is that if there is no future for a radical mass movement in our time, there can be no future for humanity itself.&quot; [3]

[Tuff Gong]

Re: World Bank points finger at Jamaica's 'functionally illi

<a href="http://go-jamaica.com/news/read_article.php?id=10808" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Vice Chancellor says
global economic crisis affecting UWI</span></a>
<span style="font-style: italic">Posted: 2009-07-13 16:11:08 </span>

Vice Chancellor of the University of the West Indies (UWI), Professor Nigel Harris, says the global economic crisis is having a negative impact on the regional tertiary institution, according to a report on cananews.net.

Harris said that some regional governments have reduced their funding this year while others have &quot;not been able to make their obligation to the University of the West Indies&quot;. He did not elaborate.

He said that the UWI recently launched its Open Campus using Internet technologies to reach students across the region.

&quot;But the sort of investment to put that on a sound footing is in question right now. We really have to do a lot of work to make that happen, though we are determine that come hook or crook we are going to make that happen,&quot; Harris told the Caribbean media Corporation (CMC).

Harris said that several other projects have been put on hold and that the university has had to implement tough belt tightening measures.

&quot;We may have to freeze capital projects; we may have to hold positions without hiring and in fact we may need to re-think some of the current programmes particularly in Jamaica that are not well supported.&quot;

[johnnycakes]

Re: World Bank points finger at Jamaica's 'functionally illi

That's right. It IS a global economic crisis yet somehow the socialist system in Cuba continues to educate ALL its people.

I know that the Jamaican people are dead set against socialism so they had better just get used to deprivation and hopelessness because as is said when the United States/First World sneezes (has economic problems) the Third World/Jamaica catches pneumonia.

In economic hard times the first things to go in Third World countries and especially when borrowing money from the World Bank and IMF are the social programs like education, medical care.

You like capitalism? Then you have no complaints because there is nothing that the GOJ can do about the situation.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: World Bank points finger at Jamaica's 'functionally illi

Jamaica's GDP is 3000 dollars when they are bashing the PNP now it is 7,400.
When the favoured government is inpower they use the higher GDP.
I for the,ongest time have been complaining aboutthis. Anyway it still does not take away from thefatc that Jamaica cannot afford to spend as much on education and should not be be understood to be doing anywher close to those coubtries.

[Amberal37]

Re: World Bank points finger at Jamaica's 'functionally illi

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That's right. It IS a global economic crisis yet somehow the socialist system in Cuba continues to educate ALL its people.

I know that the Jamaican people are dead set against socialism so they had better just get used to deprivation and hopelessness because as is said when the United States/First World sneezes (has economic problems) the Third World/Jamaica catches pneumonia.

In economic hard times the first things to go in Third World countries and especially when borrowing money from the World Bank and IMF are the social programs like education, medical care.

You like capitalism? Then you have no complaints because there is nothing that the GOJ can do about the situation.



</div></div>

Most (if not all) the countries that &quot;educate ALL its people&quot; before the economic crisis are still educating their people now. Infact some are even spending MORE on education (Britain as a simple example) as a form of economic stimulus.

About socialism - and you are certainly not convincing me to favour it with what you are saying.

In terms of the world catching a cold when america sneezes - even socialist states benefit from trading with more affluent and populous nations. Not saying trade with America is the be all and end all, but why cut off your nose to spite your face?

As I had said above, I think that with the position that Ja is at right now, the cutting of this particular education programme will not reduce the current poverty / crime rates. What profit is gained? do the government gain by selling these courses to foreign students? don't know, but from the sounds of it, they cost more than they profit.

In fact some of the &quot;studies&quot; / research can even be devolved to internships, and on-the job research/training, supported by on-line learning.
I personally don't if the Jamaican people are against socialism, what they identify as socialism is largely tied to the 80's, but they need jobs, and jobs security and the opportunity to improve their lives.

By the government owning and controllling everything, determining what gets produced, the skills needed, and matching those skills to the production - do YOU believe that the Ja. government is capable of this?
The more limited their involvement, the better, they should be facilitators ONLY. they are not exactly <span style="font-weight: bold">captains of industry</span>.
How have they run AirJa, and all other industries that they have now &quot;divested&quot;?
How much more abuse of the citizens by the police will occur by a totalitarian state?
Will this eliminate the colour-struckedness in Ja. so the government gives equal ownership for ALL citizens?
What will it take for the &quot;haves&quot; to give up their assets? Will government seizure be tolerated?

Perhaps you need to think about the practicalities of your proposals.

[johnnycakes]

Re: World Bank points finger at Jamaica's 'functionally illi

&quot;How much more abuse of the citizens by the police will occur by a totalitarian state&quot;

I take it then that you think Cuba is a totalitarian state.
Can you tell me how you think the government of Cuba is made up, how the people that serve in the government are put there?


Of course all the proposals that you posted cannot work in Jamaica as structured.

It would take revolutionary changes and the Jamaican people are rather set on keeping both the type of non-democratic form of government they have and the failed capitalist economy they have.
They both want and fear big changes in the way things are .


The fact is they make per capita about $US1200.00 more per year than do Cubans but Cubans get free healthcare including dental and mental from cradle to grave, free and excellent educational opportunities pre-school to graduate school, guaranteed jobs, guaranteed decent places to live, a safe , drug free and nearly crime free country in which to raise a family and it is a country in which it does not matter if a poor woman with several children is married or not, their needs are met regardless of marital status. A woman does not need to stay in an abusive relationship simply because she fears for the economic welfare of herself and her children.

Yet I can see why they don't want socialism in Jamaica. Under a socialist economy in a poor country an individual is denied the ability to get rich which is a right that is so much more important than the welfare of EVERYONE'S family, every child, every sick person.

You may not like the drawbacks to keeping an economic system that doesn't work in Jamaica but those drawbacks like illiteracy, crime, murder, drug use, spousal abuse, homelessness, joblessness, despair, corruption pale in comparison the the ability for a relative handful of people to become very wealthy don't they?

[Tuff Gong]

Re: World Bank points finger at Jamaica's 'functionally illi

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jamaica's GDP is 3000 dollars when they are bashing the PNP now it is 7,400.
When the favoured government is inpower they use the higher GDP.</div></div>Really?
If the figures are incorrect the fault is the PNP Comrade Planning Institute of Jamaica, which had the same personnel then.

[RichD]

Re: World Bank points finger at Jamaica's 'functionally illi

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: amberal37</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[

By the way, Ja.s GDP is $7,400USD for 2008, not $3000 </div></div>

where did you get that number?