Cabinet pores over report on preliminary IMF talks

[Amberal37]

Re: 'NO ALTERNATIVE THAN TO RESUME IMF BORROWING' - SHAW

No sure about cowardice Doc, you have quoted a plethoria of knowledge and experience - I suggest that you offer your services direct to the Ja Government who I'm sure could do with highend expertise at this point in time. Also my knowlede of sociology is restricted to that of a layman's, but I would say that in economics there is a close tie with psychology...

How much a devevaluation will affect the economy is - amongst other things - determined by not just the value of imports compared to exports (former of which Jamaica has significantly more of), but also the type of goods that are imported, and how much of the domestic market can cater for those imports.

Food - not an issue in terms of Ja. being able to substitute with domestic demand, but of course other essentials such as petrolium, construction machinery, and MVs that Jamaica does not/cannot produce, will increase in costs.

Would that constitute the bulk of the raw materials - I don't think so at the moment, and also doesn't have to.
T
he type of service industry that it has - tourism, is fed largly by food/clothing and comsumer accessories that can be produced locally. The PSYCHOLOGY is that companies will buy where it is cheaper for them to do so - so the import costs will push them to buy more local produce.

Ja Gov in the meantime will need to realign it's brand image - organic, homegrown production - "buy Jamaica" and all that!!

Jamaica has PLENTY of control over it's raw materials, it just needs to excercise it!!
...so perhaps need to negotiate in bulk to buy the <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">necessary </span></span>imported items. Some of these can be settled through an increase in the foreign reserves.
JA needs to protect it's borders and it's legacy that is being written as we speak!!!

[Wahalla]

Re: 'NO ALTERNATIVE THAN TO RESUME IMF BORROWING' - SHAW

in the last 40 years at no time had devaluation helped Jamaica.....the dollar has floated free and has had to be defened by the goverment last year.. and it was a waste// the only people who may benifit from the devaluation are those with high capital who will shift it around.. the fact of the matter is that any one with any money in Jamiaca sticks in into an accont and lends it ti the goverment at 24 %....

[Amberal37]

Re: 'NO ALTERNATIVE THAN TO RESUME IMF BORROWING' - SHAW

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">in the last 40 years at no time had devaluation helped Jamaica.....</div></div>

Can you explain to me how you have come to this conclusion?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the dollar has floated free and has had to be defened by the goverment last year.. and it was a waste// the only people who may benifit from the devaluation are those with high capital who will shift it around</div></div>

If you are saying it was a waste...does it not contradict your conclusion above?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.. the fact of the matter is that any one with any money in Jamiaca sticks in into an accont and lends it ti the goverment at 24 %.... </div></div>

So it really makes sense or the government to be paying out 24% in interest when it can borrow at 10% less than that?

Do you have governement bonds that you're going to be losing interest on? (rhetorical question - don't answer).

[evanovitch]

THE MYTH AND MAGIC OF THE IMF

COLUMNS

THE MYTH AND MAGIC OF THE IMF
COMMON SENSE
JOHN MAXWELL
Sunday, July 26, 2009
I reluctantly must confess that I have never heard of any success story associated with the International Monetary Fund (IMF) in relation to its dealings with any poor or Third World country.

JOHN MAXWELL
Certainly, in its dealings with Jamaica, the record is one of unrelieved disaster after disaster with both political parties fleeing in impoverished terror from the helpful arms of the Fund.
I will never forget the spectacle of Mr Albertelli, the Argentinean principal of the 1977 IMF team, as he scuttled away to hide from journalists in the then Sheraton hotel after delivering the coup de grace to Jamaica's hopes for rational development. It was therefore with some surprise that I read in the Gleaner on Wednesday a story suggesting that the Michael Manley government had more or less willingly surrendered its sovereignty to the IMF in 1977.
According to Gary Spaulding, Senior Gleaner Writer: &quot;There was no global economic crisis 32 years ago to shoulder the blame for Jamaica's economic predicament, but on Tuesday, January 19, 1977, when Prime Minister Michael Manley told the House of Representatives of his administration's intention to pursue a borrowing relationship with the International Monetary Fund (IMF), his rhetoric closely matched that of the present government.&quot;

Oddly enough, I remember not one, but several international crises that provided a background for the Manley recourse to the IMF. These included the so-called Arab Oil Shock of 1973 et seq because of which - according to the most easily accessible source - Wikipedia: &quot;A world financial system already under pressure from the breakdown of the Bretton Woods agreement experienced a series of recessions and high inflation that persisted until the early 1980s, and elevated oil prices until 1986.&quot;
Among the crises I remember was the devaluation of the US dollar, the quadrupling (or worse) of the price of gasoline, and to quote Wikipedia again: &quot;Underscoring the interdependence of the world societies and economies, oil-importing nations in the non-communist industrial world saw sudden inflation and economic recession. In the industrialised countries, especially the United States, the crisis was for the most part borne by the unemployed, the marginalised social groups, certain categories of aging workers, and increasingly, by younger workers. Schools and offices in the US often closed down to save on heating oil; and factories cut production and laid off workers. In France, the oil crisis spelt the end of the Trente Glorieuses, 30 years of very high economic growth, and announced the ensuing decades of permanent unemployment.&quot; If the effect of these crises on the developed countries was so profound and long-lasting it should not take a genius to understand the effect on totally open economies like Jamaica, totally dependent on imported oil and overwhelmingly dependent on imported food.
Put briefly, the IMF thought our aspirations were too ambitious and decided to put us in our proper place. I believe that this judgement was both racist and political, made by a bunch of 'crazy baldheads' of the same ilk as are now persecuting Haiti. You can see their point: We had a National Minimum Wage while the English and Americans were still talking about one, we had free education from basic school to university, we had ambitious unemployment relief schemes - the Emergency Employment Programme and the Pioneer Corps, among others, we had decreed maternity leave for every woman worker in the country, including domestic helpers and sugar workers. For the First Time At Last!
There was also serious intrigue. Jamaica had prepared a negotiating position with the IMF - a top secret document. Imagine the delight of the IMF and the total discomfiture of the Government when this 'Top Secret' document was broadcast on RJR by the leader of the Opposition, Mr Edward Seaga.
It was a blow from which this country has never recovered. A minister and a permanent secretary were initially found guilty of breaching their trust. They were later acquitted on appeal.
I have never understood why Mr Seaga, a former cabinet minister and bound by the same oaths and undertakings as those in office, was never prosecuted for his breach of trust. He was, however, later excoriated by the prime minister of Trinidad and Tobago, Eric Williams, for his disloyalty to Jamaica when he went to the IMF and World Bank, arguing that they should not help Jamaica. As it was, and as Seaga discovered for himself while prime minister, the IMF and its sibling were never about helping Jamaica; and when Mr Seaga had the opportunity in the '80s, he ran away from them as fast as his little legs could carry him.
I wonder what my friend Clovis would do now if the current leader of the Opposition were to behave now as Mr Seaga did then?
Brutal and Procrustean
What I called &quot;the brutal and Procrustean strictures of the World Bank and the IMF forced us to cut taxes and public services, to raise interest rates to farmers and, in fact, to turn us back, back to desperation.
In 1998 the then head honcho of the World Bank, one Wolfensohn, lied like a trooper to more than a thousand Anglican bishops at the Lambeth conference, saying that he had given US$200 million to Jamaica to ease poverty. He had not. But Argentina, with a preponderantly European population, and considerably richer than Jamaica, got $200 million for poverty alleviation. The World Bank gave them the money to do some of the things the IMF suggested amounted to criminal mismanagement when we did them in Jamaica.

In other words, Michael Manley's Emergency Employment Programme - the Crash Programme - and the Pioneer Corps became living realities in Argentina thanks to the World Bank but were a wicked misuse of money in Jamaica.
What we should be looking for in these times of trial and tribulation is not an IMF recipe which basically calls for cutting expenditure, chopping jobs and going even further into recession.
In my opinion, the most significant statistic of all the dread figures bandied about is the precipitous drop in remittances from Jamaicans abroad. Remittances account for 17 per cent of Jamaica's GDP, which means that one in every six dollars worth of Jamaica's output or, more crudely, one in every six dollars spent in Jamaica comes courtesy of Jamaicans abroad.
Since, remittances have dropped by 17 per cent in the first six months of this year and may drop even further. This money goes mainly to people at the bottom of the society so it is my guess that for the people, the drop in remittances represents much more than a 20 per cent cut in their living standards - it may represent twice as much.
What we need now
This should tell us where the development aid should go. I once said to Michael Manley that it might make more sense if our foreign aid were simply distributed in cash and benefits to the poor rather than being spent on planning and Pajeros.
According to the newspapers, Badrul Haque, special World Bank representative, is looking for a plausible explanation as to why one-third of Jamaica's potential workers remained outside the labour force.
The answer is in monoculture - sugar cane - our shopkeeper culture and the effects of our openness to IMF solutions. The IMF's answer to everything is for us to become more competitive, which means that we need to reduce the take-home pay of our workers until they can compete with the near slave labour of Bangladesh, Indonesia and other south-east Asian labour forces.
Earlier this year, in April, Robert Zoellick, president of the World Bank, predicted that the present global crisis could become an economic disaster for poorer countries with millions being driven into unemployment. &quot;Poor people could suffer the most and we must act in time to prevent a human catastrophe.&quot;
I believe that the Emergency Production Plan of the 1970s - produced by the people themselves - was a superior option to the private sector-driven retreat to the IMF. Both involved hardship, but the Jamaican self-reliance plan would have had the effect of building social capital, encouraging co-operation and cementing communities while producing small-scale enterprises, especially in the production and marketing of food.
The IMF solution simply produced misery.
Today, we are offered alternatives; the alternatives offered to poor people whenever they are in problems - sell your capital assets and further impoverish yourselves, borrow large amounts of foreign exchange for building facilities for foreigners. We will be building a gigantic public sanitary convenience for Royal Caribbean cruise lines by destroying Falmouth, capturing Up Park Camp to build another deadly ghetto in the middle of Kingston while ignoring the desperation in the slums of Kingston, Spanish Town, Ocho Rios, Montego Bay and Negril - concrete time bombs which, one day, who knows when, will explode with devastating consequences for the rich, the poor and everybody in between.
Let's give the Trelawny Multi-purpose Stadium to UTech to produce thousands of Masters of Business Administration who will end up on the streets here or abroad while the food they could be growing is imported from abroad, produced by 'farmers' who fly planes to work. Let's take away the beaches and the playing fields from the poor because they won't know how to use them, and instead of producing more Bob Marleys and Usain Bolts they will be producing more Sandokhans and Jim Browns.
We have a choice. We have always had a choice and we almost always make the same mistake.
Copyright © 2009 John Maxwell
[email protected]

[Amberal37]

Re: THE MYTH AND MAGIC OF THE IMF

Thank you for posting this - another insightful article.

I repeat again...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How much a devevaluation will affect the economy is - amongst other things - determined by not just the value of imports compared to exports (former of which Jamaica has significantly more of), but also the type of goods that are imported, and how much of the domestic market can cater for those imports.

Food - not an issue in terms of Ja. being able to substitute with domestic demand, but of course other essentials such as petrolium, construction machinery, and MVs that Jamaica does not/cannot produce, will increase in costs.

Would that constitute the bulk of the raw materials - I don't think so at the moment, and also doesn't have to.

The type of service industry that it has - tourism, is fed largly by food/clothing and comsumer accessories that can be produced locally. The PSYCHOLOGY is that companies will buy where it is cheaper for them to do so - so the import costs will push them to buy more local produce.

Ja Gov in the meantime will need to realign it's brand image - organic, <span style="font-weight: bold">homegrown production</span> - &quot;buy Jamaica&quot; and all that!!

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">Jamaica has PLENTY of control over it's raw materials, it just needs to excercise it</span>!!</span>
...so perhaps need to negotiate in bulk to buy the necessary imported items. Some of</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Let's see:
Devaluing the currency
Latvia's link to the EURO IS unsustainable! the Euro is also overvalued and damaging Spain &amp; Greece - Devaluation definitely a good thing for Ja.
This will firstly offset the high inflation of former years, making it cheaper for tourists to buy things - bringing in more money.
But this can ONLY be effective for the economy if fiscal <span style="font-weight: bold">policy and INFLATION is kept in check</span>.
Hence, reducing, not <span style="font-weight: bold">increasing money supply (raising sales tax is one method) offering tax rebates for companies to employ and train people at a particular salary and above</span>.
Thereby also generating more employment and employment taxes.

Of course imports will be more expensive!! The Ja economy should focus on MAKING especially it's own food - it has the resources for THAT atleast. It also will hopefully reduce the cheap imports from India and China that are eroding the native entrepreneurial fabric, and not giving anything back to the people.

Keeping inflation in check - you guys HAVE the luXURY of low inflation in areas such as US, Canada, UK! do hopefully I don't need to explain why.

Cut government spending - well start with the police force, and use some of that to train those youngsters that are likely to commit crime. Do NOT cut teachers, but restructure. Look at cutting government civil servants.
Do not tie up their financial resources with the national housing trust - it is innefective! it DOES NOT WORK! make the people build their own houses by getting them into jobs and let let the banks lend to the, but the government regulate, and mediate IF NECESSARY (this can be funded by planning taxes, etc.).</div></div>

<span style="font-style: italic">Someone asked how companies will be able to employ people with no business </span>- I already said that with the decrease in prices encouraging more tourism, then there is more visitors to service by the tourism trade.

The government while increasing taxes to business in terms of sale taxes (think of tax on room booking fees), and offer <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">some</span></span> of this in rebate when these business employ Jamaicans at a decent wage.

A major dysfunction of previous Jamaican government policies was to try to do everything for the people - rather than giving them the resources to do it themselves- the national housingbuilding programme is a prime example of this!. So many of these social programmes while sounding good and having high aspirations - were NEVER sustainable because over time the income needed to feed them would decrease, so they fed incapacity rather than capacity building.

Did WE do this to ourselves by bad policy / ineptitude, or did the IMF do this to us?
But hindsight is also a wonderful thing, we must learn <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">HOW </span></span>to move on from the past rather than wallowing in it!

[Tuff Gong]

Re: 'NO ALTERNATIVE THAN TO RESUME IMF BORROWING' - SHAW

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">in the last 40 years at no time had devaluation helped Jamaica.....</div></div>Jamaica does not produce anything that devaluation will help except Tourism. It is not going to let the world buy more Bauxite because the agreements are set way in advance and everything else that is actually manufactured in Jamaica needs significant inputs in imported raw material.

The fact is Jamaica needs to borrow not to fix our economy or cure our problems but to pay bills. The Government made a huge tactical mistake and one that I had predicted. The new Administration should have come in with a plan to go to IMF and a plan to cut the State payrolls and make it efficient. Instead the Prime Minster took the wait and see approach let's see if we can get by without the roof falling in before we have to do something about our problems.

The IMF was not the problem the fist time, nor was it the solution. The IMF is not the problem now and even though it will not solve one single problem that Jamaica has, it is the lifeline that is keeping us from defaulting on loans and not being able to pay Public Sector Salaries, wages and bills.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: 'NO ALTERNATIVE THAN TO RESUME IMF BORROWING' - SHAW

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">in the last 40 years at no time had devaluation helped Jamaica.....</div></div>Jamaica does not produce anything that devaluation will help except Tourism. It is not going to let the world buy more Bauxite because the agreements are set way in advance and everything else that is actually manufactured in Jamaica needs significant inputs in imported raw material.

The fact is Jamaica needs to borrow not to fix our economy or cure our problems but to pay bills. The Government made a huge tactical mistake and one that I had predicted. The new Administration should have come in with a plan to go to IMF and a plan to cut the State payrolls and make it efficient. Instead the Prime Minster took the wait and see approach let's see if we can get by without the roof falling in before we have to do something about our problems.

The IMF was not the problem the fist time, nor was it the solution. The IMF is not the problem now and even though it will not solve one single problem that Jamaica has, it is the lifeline that is keeping us from defaulting on loans and not being able to pay Public Sector Salaries, wages and bills.
</div></div>

Please answer a few questions for me if you don't mind.
How does Jamaica's tourism benefits from devaluation?
What is used in tourism that is not imported?
What currency are hotel and attractions rates quoted and sold in?
How would the government have qualified to borrow from the IMF before now??

[Tuff Gong]

Re: 'NO ALTERNATIVE THAN TO RESUME IMF BORROWING' - SHAW

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Please answer a few questions for me if you don't mind.
How does Jamaica's tourism benefits from devaluation?</div></div>

The visitors purchasing power will be greater.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
What is used in tourism that is not imported?[/quoted

Like most product produced and packaged in Jamaica Official/Commercial Tourism have a high imported input. But Tourism has (1) a high return (2) Is very diverse, less recognized and less talked about is the Jamaicans and other visitors to Jamaica who visit friend and families, stay in residential surroundings and purchase local produce in neighbourhood shops. They should see a higher purchasing power with their Foreign Currencies even in the faces of rising prices.

[quote=Dr.Dudd]
What currency are hotel and attractions rates quoted and sold in?</div></div>

Locally it should be in Jamaican Dollars but this is more honoured in the breach, than the letter of the law.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How would the government have qualified to borrow from the IMF before now??
</div></div>
This is failed PNP/Dr. Clueless Talking Point. Dr. Davies would use this argument to get out of explaining failure of his policies and the fact excuse the glaring discrepancies between the IMF types rates and that which he was prostituting Jamaica at.

Every time he would say that the PNP Parrots in the Media would get on the Air Waves and mimicking the same air of superiority while delivering the regurgitated speech about Jamaica being a middle income earner and thus unqualified for IMF assistance.... not is automatic IMF Assistance under specific programmes it said nothing about borrowing all kinds of money if you feel like it.
If sure never stopped the Dr. Davies of the world from using the IMF imprimatur to get loans until the IMF called them on it.

The fact that you can only take issue with such piddling items do more to confirm rather than refute the argument that Jamaica is not now or will ever in the near future benefit from Devaluation because simply put we are <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">a one-trick pony with a trick that has been played out.</span>

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: 'NO ALTERNATIVE THAN TO RESUME IMF BORROWING' - SHAW

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=Dr.Dudd]
Please answer a few questions for me if you don't mind.
How does Jamaica's tourism benefits from devaluation?</div></div>

The visitors purchasing power will be greater.


<span style="color: #FF6666"> How will purchasing power will be higher, when the price of every item will increase withe exchange rates??
Even bread will increase, fertilizer and chicken feed will increase,because Jamaica imports all the raw materials to produce everything they sell. How will the prices be lower?
</span>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
What is used in tourism that is not imported?[/quoted]

Like most product produced and packaged in Jamaica Official/Commercial Tourism have a high imported input. But Tourism has (1) a high return (2) Is very diverse, less recognized and less talked about is the Jamaicans and other visitors to Jamaica who visit friend and families, stay in residential surroundings and purchase local produce in neighbourhood shops. They should see a higher purchasing power with their Foreign Currencies even in the faces of rising prices.
<span style="color: #FF6666"> Then don't even the stuff that these Jamaican visitors buy will be increased due to the cost of the inputs that are bought with foreign money?
</span>

[quote=Dr.Dudd]
What currency are hotel and attractions rates quoted and sold in?</div></div>

Locally it should be in Jamaican Dollars but this is more honoured in the breach, than the letter of the law

<span style="color: #FF6666">So how will the country benefit from it under the policy you describe? </span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How would the government have qualified to borrow from the IMF before now??
</div></div>
This is failed PNP/Dr. Clueless Talking Point. Dr. Davies would use this argument to get out of explaining failure of his policies and the fact excuse the glaring discrepancies between the IMF types rates and that which he was prostituting Jamaica at.

Every time he would say that the PNP Parrots in the Media would get on the Air Waves and mimicking the same air of superiority while delivering the regurgitated speech about Jamaica being a middle income earner and thus unqualified for IMF assistance.... not is automatic IMF Assistance under specific programmes it said nothing about borrowing all kinds of money if you feel like it.
If sure never stopped the Dr. Davies of the world from using the IMF imprimatur to get loans until the IMF called them on it.

The fact that you can only take issue with such piddling items do more to confirm rather than refute the argument that Jamaica is not now or will ever in the near future benefit from Devaluation because simply put we are <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">a one-trick pony with a trick that has been played out.</span> <span style="color: #FF6666">I other words you have no answer for this one.
I knew you didn't,because it is nit the first time you make the suggestion. The INF only lend to countries that meet certain qualification through NEED. It does not matter that a country want to borrow. Just as all organizations have criteria for loans,the IMF has theirs too. It is called a facility OF LAST RESORT. unless a country is in that position they don't qualify and cannot access loans from it. Prior to this Jamaica did not qualify under the criteria . It was not broke enough simple as that.
right now it is broke enough that's all. </span>

[evanovitch]

Re: THE MYTH AND MAGIC OF THE IMF

&quot;Today, we are offered alternatives; the alternatives offered to poor people whenever they are in problems - sell your capital assets and further impoverish yourselves, borrow large amounts of foreign exchange for building facilities for foreigners. We will be building a gigantic public sanitary convenience for Royal Caribbean cruise lines by destroying Falmouth, capturing Up Park Camp to build another deadly ghetto in the middle of Kingston while ignoring the desperation in the slums of Kingston, Spanish Town, Ocho Rios, Montego Bay and Negril - concrete time bombs which, one day, who knows when, will explode with devastating consequences for the rich, the poor and everybody in between.
Let's give the Trelawny Multi-purpose Stadium to UTech to produce thousands of Masters of Business Administration who will end up on the streets here or abroad while the food they could be growing is imported from abroad, produced by 'farmers' who fly planes to work. Let's take away the beaches and the playing fields from the poor because they won't know how to use them, and instead of producing more Bob Marleys and Usain Bolts they will be producing more Sandokhans and Jim Browns.&quot;


preach di troot..John n I r one wid dis ..yeah man..

[Tuff Gong]

Re: 'NO ALTERNATIVE THAN TO RESUME IMF BORROWING' - SHAW

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <span style="color: #FF6666"> How will purchasing power will be higher, when the price of every item will increase withe exchange rates??
Even bread will increase, fertilizer and chicken feed will increase,because Jamaica imports all the raw materials to produce everything they sell. How will the prices be lower?
</span></div></div>

It unlikely that the price will rise in direct proportion to the devaluation since the imported content is just a percentage of the finished product. Not only that there will be a resistance beyond a certain point and providers will start subsidizing out of profit or reduce expenses further.

Again if you are trying to refute the fact that Devaluations have not and will not benefit Jamaica you a doing a better job than I am.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: 'NO ALTERNATIVE THAN TO RESUME IMF BORROWING' - SHAW

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <span style="color: #FF6666"> Then don't even the stuff that these Jamaican visitors buy will be increased due to the cost of the inputs that are bought with foreign money?
</span> </div></div>Yes there will be a genral increase but as I said above it will not be a one-to-one since 100% of the Service is not built on imports....<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">or is it?</span>

[Tuff Gong]

Re: 'NO ALTERNATIVE THAN TO RESUME IMF BORROWING' - SHAW

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <span style="color: #FF6666">So how will the country benefit from it under the policy you describe? </span> </div></div>
I did not describe a policy I said <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">about the only thing </span>that benefit from Devaluation of the Jamaican Dollar will be the tourism product.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: 'NO ALTERNATIVE THAN TO RESUME IMF BORROWING' - SHAW

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="color: #FF6666">I other words you have no answer for this one.
I knew you didn't,because it is nit the first time you make the suggestion.</span> </div></div>

First I did not make the suggestion as you said. Dr. Clueless, the PNP and their sycophants made that suggestion for years. It was never tested never proved and the truth was being shaded because there are numerous IMF Lending facilities some of which we obviously did not qualify for. At this point we do not know what is in the agreement so we don't know what we qualified for then and what has changed now.

What we do know is that Dr. Clueless went on at a torrid pace with borrowings, bragged about it. The corruption and misuse of funds continued and he bragged about that too.
This should be the real point of the argument not whether or not we qualified to be poor and beggy-beggy or we were middle class and still beggy-beggy.

You are basically asking me to prove or disprove a negative with absolutely no facts provided other than the oft-repeated Comrade Corruption Line....

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: 'NO ALTERNATIVE THAN TO RESUME IMF BORROWING' - SHAW

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <span style="color: #FF6666">So how will the country benefit from it under the policy you describe? </span> </div></div>
I did not describe a policy I said <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">about the only thing </span>that benefit from Devaluation of the Jamaican Dollar will be the tourism product. </div></div>
<span style="font-size: 11pt"> OK so it is not a policy. I still don't see tourism benefiting from devaluation any more than any other aspect of the Jamaican economy. Simply because it is sold in foreign currency. It's inputs are paid for in foreign currency and devaluation will not reduce the cost of.
On the other hand since we use so much foreign imports,revaluation of the Jamaican currency would be more advantageous. Yes you saw it here first. So next few years when everybody start promote it as if they created the idea,just remind them where it originated. Very much like so many of the working policies that both administration adopted. They started right here. Well they make their public debut here.</span>