ATTORNEY DENIES 'DUDUS' SNATCHED BY US AUTHORITIES

**neutral** · 09-11-2009, 08:02 PM

Re: West Kingston strongman yet to receive official extradition

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well who say he should not get due process?/
</div></div>

The people who are calling for him to be extradited, in this very thread,and others that i have read on this site,...the conscensus seems to be that the man should be extradited to prevent any rocking of the boat between jamaica and the us,.....some have suggested that because people are queuing up for visas to the states jamaica should extradite the man so as not to hinder their progress,..I say this is bull S !

So freaking what if one of our own manages to escape the judicial process that sees them being extradited to the Us,..this man has seemingly kept his head below the crime radar,and has given much needed financial aid to otherwise destitute people in his community,,I say unnu lowe de man and stop all this idiot racket about extraditing him,.....from what I read about his so-called crimes in the states they dont involve knocking over old ladies and stealing their handbags,paedophilia,rape,or mass murder.

**britisha** · 09-12-2009, 06:14 AM

Re: West Kingston strongman yet to receive official extradition

<span style="font-style: italic">Jackass seh, 'di grung noh lebel'</span>..an a chroo chroo.

**Amberal37** · 09-12-2009, 07:40 AM

Re: West Kingston strongman yet to receive official extradition

Due process indeed!!!
It is my understanding that they (the US) have been monitoring him for some time (years) to strengthen their evidence, and that he has eluded them in the past because of finding "loopholes" so in a way I can understand the slowbaiting.

Whether queueing up for visas or not, this man is a nuisance for J'cans, one that helps to maintain the crime/murder-laden society that Jamaica is at the moment. I am personally no lover of US or many of it's actions, but if the US helps in containing him - all the better!

No he may not personally indulge in such "monstrocities! as <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">knocking over old ladies and stealing their handbags,paedophilia,rape,or </div></div>, but <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">mass murder</div></div> <span style="font-weight: bold">I think you need to take another look - with head out of the sand this time...</span>

He has helped to arm major communities, trafficked drugs through them, setting up "businesses" that only the creator knows how many are a front for laundering, but the "employment" and "control" he exherts are remnant of an era that we should have left a long time ago - <span style="font-weight: bold">Jamaica is not the wild west</span>! All maintained through crime spree after crime spree killing young Jamaican men (and women).

I say the government should stop protecting him, and send the military into the community to make sure order is maintained once he is extradicted.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: neutral</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well who say he should not get due process?/
</div></div>

The people who are calling for him to be extradited, in this very thread,and others that i have read on this site,...the conscensus seems to be that the man should be extradited to prevent any rocking of the boat between jamaica and the us,.....some have suggested that because people are queuing up for visas to the states jamaica should extradite the man so as not to hinder their progress,..I say this is bull S !

So freaking what if one of our own manages to escape the judicial process that sees them being extradited to the Us,..this man has seemingly kept his head below the crime radar,and has given much needed financial aid to otherwise destitute people in his community,,I say unnu lowe de man and stop all this idiot racket about extraditing him,.....from what I read about his so-called crimes in the states they dont involve knocking over old ladies and stealing their handbags,paedophilia,rape,or mass murder.
</div></div>

**neutral** · 09-12-2009, 07:23 PM

Re: West Kingston strongman yet to receive official extradition

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: amberal37</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Due process indeed!!!
It is my understanding that they (the US) have been monitoring him for some time (years) to strengthen their evidence, and that he has eluded them in the past because of finding "loopholes" so in a way I can understand the slowbaiting.

Whether queueing up for visas or not, this man is a nuisance for J'cans, one that helps to maintain the crime/murder-laden society that Jamaica is at the moment. I am personally no lover of US or many of it's actions, but if the US helps in containing him - all the better!

No he may not personally indulge in such "monstrocities! as <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">knocking over old ladies and stealing their handbags,paedophilia,rape,or </div></div>, but <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">mass murder</div></div> <span style="font-weight: bold">I think you need to take another look - with head out of the sand this time...</span>

He has helped to arm major communities, trafficked drugs through them, setting up "businesses" that only the creator knows how many are a front for laundering, but the "employment" and "control" he exherts are remnant of an era that we should have left a long time ago - <span style="font-weight: bold">Jamaica is not the wild west</span>! All maintained through crime spree after crime spree killing young Jamaican men (and women).

I say the government should stop protecting him, and send the military into the community to make sure order is maintained once he is extradicted.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: neutral</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well who say he should not get due process?/
</div></div>

The people who are calling for him to be extradited, in this very thread,and others that i have read on this site,...the conscensus seems to be that the man should be extradited to prevent any rocking of the boat between jamaica and the us,.....some have suggested that because people are queuing up for visas to the states jamaica should extradite the man so as not to hinder their progress,..I say this is bull S !

So freaking what if one of our own manages to escape the judicial process that sees them being extradited to the Us,..this man has seemingly kept his head below the crime radar,and has given much needed financial aid to otherwise destitute people in his community,,I say unnu lowe de man and stop all this idiot racket about extraditing him,.....from what I read about his so-called crimes in the states they dont involve knocking over old ladies and stealing their handbags,paedophilia,rape,or mass murder.
</div></div> </div></div>

My first reaction was not to dignify your post with a response,however I will say this much and leave it at that,your suggestion about the man being a nuisance to jamaicans and helps to maintain the crime in jamaica is baseless and lacks any real evidence,not only is it a stupid and ignorant suggestion and appears to be based solely on urban myths and internet gossip,...I find your response to me to be very condescending.

You seem to be very liberal with your accusations about someone you`ve merely read about,you obviously dont know what you are talking about and it shows,have you ever been to tivoli gardens,do you know the plight of people in that community,...if you have any evidence to support your allegations other than what you have read or heard about then your arguments will carry some credibility,..if not xxxxxxxxxxxxxx stop with the condescending manner.

**Amberal37** · 09-12-2009, 08:59 PM

Re: West Kingston strongman yet to receive official extradition

Whatever!
Fact - Yes, I do know Tivoli. It is irrelevant to discuss whether or not I have been to Tivoli...

Yes, i am willing to believe the accusations based on what I hear that is happening there - something HAS to change for people around there!!
In fact - it sticks out in my mind as the prime example of how housing schemes should NOT be developed - as they are susceptible to become such "ghetto" areas.

Question: What do YOU know about this man, or DON'T know, that you are willing to ardently defend?
Question: Why don't YOU pop down to Jamaica and try to LIVE in Tivoli gardens?
Question: Do YOU know what you are talking about?
I guarantee as a foreigner (as the locals would call you) you will not want to stay for more than an hour! Not even other Kingstonians want to live there!!

So you disagree with me - somehow in your mind it justifies you throwing profanities (as you have done) - by the way where are the moderators?
You know what - I don't play on sentiments like "loving" Jamaica - I certainly have a very strong emotionaly attachment to it (Jamaica), but I'm not going to defend citizens that are not worth defending. Worst still, ones who might help to keep places like Tivoli in the conditions that it is!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: neutral</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
My first reaction was not to dignify your post with a response,however I will say this much and leave it at that,your suggestion about the man being a nuisance to jamaicans and helps to maintain the crime in jamaica is baseless and lacks any real evidence,not only is it a stupid and ignorant suggestion and appears to be based solely on urban myths and internet gossip,...I find your response to me to be very condescending.

You seem to be very liberal with your accusations about someone you`ve merely read about,you obviously dont know what you are talking about and it shows,have you ever been to tivoli gardens,do you know the plight of people in that community,...if you have any evidence to support your allegations other than what you have read or heard about then your arguments will carry some credibility,..xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx </div></div>

**britisha** · 09-12-2009, 11:25 PM

Re: West Kingston strongman yet to receive official extradition

<span style="font-size: 20pt"><span style="font-style: italic">YAAAAWWWWNNNNNNNNNNN !!!</span></span>

**evanovitch** · 09-12-2009, 11:42 PM

US might kidnap ‘Dudus’

US might kidnap ‘Dudus’
Article Published: Friday, September 11th, 2009
If the Jamaican government fails to extradite its political strong man Christopher ‘Dudus’ Coke US law enforcement agents could kidnap and take him to face trial in the US.

The Jamaican government has been sitting on a request from the US government for Coke to be extradited for the past three weeks. On Wednesday, information minister Daryl Vaz told journalists that the government would not rush the process.

Based on a 1992 US Supreme Court ruling, the US may kidnap accused persons from foreign countries to stand trial in the United States, even if there exists an extradition treaty with the other country.

According to attorney, Professor David Rowe, there is no clause in the existing extradition treaty between Jamaica and the US to prevent kidnapping of an accused person wanted in the US.

The 1992 case involves the kidnapping of Alvarez Machain from his home in Mexico by US Drug Enforcement Agents in 1992. He was flown to Texas, where he was arrested for his participation in the kidnapping and murder of a DEA agent and his pilot.
SundayHerald

**Dr.Dudd** · 09-13-2009, 12:00 AM

Re: US might kidnap ‘Dudus’

A US government kidnap would be the best way out for the government. And I think that it may have already taken place secretly. The US is very adept of secretly kidnapping and spiriting people out of countries. That was done in the past in Jamaica. Where the US Marshall kidnapped an attorney, put him on a boat and spirited him out of the country. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: evanovich</div><div class="ubbcode-body">US might kidnap ‘Dudus’
Article Published: Friday, September 11th, 2009
If the Jamaican government fails to extradite its political strong man Christopher ‘Dudus’ Coke US law enforcement agents could kidnap and take him to face trial in the US.

The Jamaican government has been sitting on a request from the US government for Coke to be extradited for the past three weeks. On Wednesday, information minister Daryl Vaz told journalists that the government would not rush the process.

Based on a 1992 US Supreme Court ruling, the US may kidnap accused persons from foreign countries to stand trial in the United States, even if there exists an extradition treaty with the other country.

According to attorney, Professor David Rowe, there is no clause in the existing extradition treaty between Jamaica and the US to prevent kidnapping of an accused person wanted in the US.

The 1992 case involves the kidnapping of Alvarez Machain from his home in Mexico by US Drug Enforcement Agents in 1992. He was flown to Texas, where he was arrested for his participation in the kidnapping and murder of a DEA agent and his pilot.
SundayHerald </div></div>

**evanovitch** · 09-13-2009, 06:07 PM

Some implications of the prime minister's handling of the ex

Some implications of the prime minister's handling of the extradition request

CLAUDE ROBINSON

Sunday, September 13, 2009

Facing his stiffest challenges to date, Prime Minister Bruce Golding enters a third year in office with the reins of power less firmly in his grasp than at any time since he took the oath of office on September 11, 2007.

As of now there is no danger the reins will slip through his fingers, but the prospects of his Jamaica Labour Party (JLP) retaining power after 2012 will depend largely on how quickly the economy rebounds and how the prime minister handles the request by the United States for the extradition of his most prominent constituent Christopher 'Dudus' Coke.

Two years ago, the JLP took office with his expectation and tremendous goodwill after 18 years of continuous rule by the People's National Party.

The promise of 'jobs, jobs, jobs' has not materialised. Contextually, it must be acknowledged that the administration's performance has been severely impacted by natural disasters and a volatile global economy which has been in a tailspin since the US financial system crashed a year ago.

Now, the country is clearly in an economic crisis with the budget in disarray and the Government, faced with falling revenues, is hard-pressed to meet its obligations. The upside is that things are still being held together, but with critical public sector workers including police and teachers still pressing for a wage increase, the situation remains uncertain.

It seems the only lifeline is the expected agreement with the International Monetary Fund (IMF) which should further stabilise the foreign exchange and credit markets but will not help the Government pay its bills.

But the loan facility will provide some breathing room for the administration to put together and implement a strategy that will take the country from 'merely getting by' to achieving real and sustained growth. That's a tall order that will test Mr Golding and his ministers more than they have been tested so far.

Meantime, the extradition is the most pressing matter: It is tied up with the way Jamaica is perceived in the global community; it is linked to social disorder and violent organised crime; and it underscores the ugly underbelly of a part of our politics that will not disappear without a sustained bipartisan approach to critical national problems.

Under the rule of law, Mr Coke must be given the presumption of innocence and his constitutional rights cannot be abused willy-nilly.
So it would be wrong for Mr Golding - or anyone else, including us in the media - to come to conclusions based simply on a request by a foreign state, even a friendly and powerful one like the United States of America.

All that can be expected of the prime minister is a simple and clear statement acknowledging the request and affirming that it will be dealt with in accordance with our democracy and our constitution without regard to the political affiliation of the target of the request. Once that due process is complete, the country will be told the full outcome. That's all that was expected from the prime minister. He should have delivered.

Any apparent hemming and hawing can hurt our international credibility as a state committed to law and order, especially in a context where the murder rate for more than a decade has made Jamaica the unenviable murder capital of the world.

As the Daily Observer remarked in an editorial on Friday, "Jamaica is beginning to look like a real fool on the international stage".

The editorial raised an important question that Prime Minister Golding needs to answer clearly and unequivocally. That question is "whether the Government's loyalties lie with those who hold that the end justifies the means or the citizens of this country who are committed to order and the rule of law".

Since news of the extradition request broke late August, there has been a steady stream of news reports of tension in the prime minister's West Kingston constituency and more generally in downtown Kingston. The fear is that there could be violent social upheaval if the request is granted.

The fear underscores the reality that in some of our inner-city communities the state has virtually ceded authority to 'dons' who enforce their own version of order and stability, providing tangible economic and social benefits to large numbers of persons who expect neither jobs nor security from the state.

The phenomenon is captured in the expression 'garrison politics', something Mr Golding once promised to turn his back on.
Garrison communities or constituencies are not accidental. They have been politically constructed to secure and maintain a political party or candidate in office. State housing, work and contracts allocated on the basis of party affiliation are common features. The entire apparatus functions through intimidation and force to maintain the political monopoly.

The 'garrison' as a mechanism of political organisation is widely acknowledged to have had its genesis in the political wars of the 1960s in West Kingston between the JLP's Edward Seaga and the People's National Party's Dudley Thompson.

The contest gave birth to the Tivoli Gardens community as the stronghold base of the JLP's domination of the constituency for more than 45 years.

The model was replicated by the PNP's Anthony Spaulding in South St Andrew and has spread to several urban communities especially in the Kingston metropolitan region, St Catherine, Clarendon and St James.

Data presented by police officers at a conference, "Towards an Understanding of Garrison Communities", organised by the Centre for Public Safety and Justice at the University of the West Indies in February 2008, outlined the extent of the problem.

Take the South St Andrew police division. The data shows that 175,000 persons live in 70,000 households in the five political constituencies that comprise the division. Three constituencies are PNP and two are JLP.

There were more than 20 garrison communities with 47 active gangs in that police division and there were 1,583 murders between 2000 and 2007, making that division the one with the highest number of murders in the island, senior police officers said at the conference.

It should also be pointed out that Peter Phillips, a former minister of national security, has consistently warned about the nexus between politics and organised crime. Interestingly, he too has called on the prime minister to speak clearly on the extradition request.

Given the political contexts, the prime minister's handling of the request for extradition will say a lot about commitments to the eventual dismantling of garrison communities and the new approach to governance promised two years ago, about new politics or old politics.

An early example of retreating to old-style politics was Mr Golding's directive to the governor general to remove members of the Public Service Commission who, insisting on the independence guaranteed to them under the constitution, recommended the appointment of Professor Stephen Vasciannie as solicitor general.

Simply put, the prime minister wanted a solicitor general of his liking and, eventually succeeded, after selecting a new PSC. In retrospect, the PSC episode seems a minor event compared to what is now on the table.

[email protected]

**evanovitch** · 09-14-2009, 12:12 AM

Extradition & the JLP’s pledge to deal with garrisons

Extradition & the JLP’s pledge to deal with garrisons
Sunday, 13 September 2009

Yvonne McCalla Sobers Chairman of human rights group Families Against State Terrorism says the Government is being closely watched on how it handles the United States Government's extradition request for Tivoli Gardens strongman Christopher "Dudus" Coke.

Mrs. McCalla Sobers says this matter challenges one of the promises made by the then Opposition Jamaica Labour Party (JLP) leading up to the 2007 general election
.

"We have a situation here where it challenges one of the pledges of the JLP in its manifesto which was to address the problem of garrisons. Because it is inescapable that this person happens to be the ‘don' in the constituency represented by a former Prime Minister who then became a Leader of Opposition, then the constituency of the new leader of the Opposition who is now the present Prime Minister," she said.

However, Mrs. McCalla Sober added that the Government carrying out due process in examining all the legalities surrounding the extradition is a step in the right direction.

"This is an opportunity for the Government to send a clear message which will also protect the rights of Christopher Coke so, if there are legal issues, they have to be addressed clearly and fully in a court of law," said Mrs. McCalla Sober who was speaking Sunday on RJR's weekly review programme That's a Rap!.

**evanovitch** · 09-14-2009, 04:50 PM

Notice the noticeable unity

Notice the noticeable unity

With the calling for the extradition of west Kingston strongman Christopher 'Dudus' Coke to the United States, I could not help but see the noticeable unity among our people which is always missing when needed.

It is not very often that we see people from opposing political parties, communities and even families coming together for a 'just' cause.

extradited

This is the exact effect which the current situation involving 'Dudus' has had on those who say they will be affected should he be extradited.

Since reports surfaced that the don faces charges in relation to gun and drug trafficking, there has been chilling words that thugs have been arming themselves in defence of their 'don'.

My interactions with residents paint a picture of a 'do or die' mood among them and they are ready to take on whomever or whatever may come.

Though it may be argued that this type of togetherness is now in place for the wrong reason, one cannot help but adore it.

In all fairness, these people say Dudus is capable of keeping the peace in west Kingston so one can understand their reason for wanting to defend him.

ugly things

We need no reminder of how ugly things can become around that side of town.

Back to the topic at hand though, I've never seen this much unity since the April gas riots of 1999. Back then, they might not have obtained what they wanted, but they still came together.

Now, the case is a little different but it too is having its 'bonding effect' on people and be reminded, this has to do with the liberty of one man.

Call this man what you will but I think of him to be more of a 'leader' than some of those who fill leadership positions in this country, and if he can garner this much support, then it's obvious that some people are going about their jobs the wrong way.

We are often criticised to be a divided nation and situations like this only goes to show that we only choose or are forced to be that way.

Let's try and do it more often!

<span style="font-weight: bold">'My interactions with residents paint a picture of a 'do or die' mood among them and they are ready to take on whom-ever or whatever may come.'</span>

**Amberal37** · 09-14-2009, 06:17 PM

Behaviour akin to breastfed 10-year olds...

Reminds me of mothers who know their sons are bad and although they moan privately to friends about their troubles, when it comes to public admission - they all of a sudden become defensive.

Seen this "sympton" time and time again with Jamaican mothers(dare i say it), time and time again.

Not sure where this syndrome of denial stems from, but it is a dangerous one - especially in J'can psyche, frustrating as hell, and pathetic.

He is certainly a "leader", but is that the direction that Jamaicans want to be continually lead into?

He is certainly "capable of keeping the peace", because he is the one that has maintained the system of organised chaos that only he knows how to maintain.

Why is HE needed to keep the peace - because these people believe themselves to be such barbaric nature that they are incapable of living without violence?

So maybe he is innocent - does being on the run - not made to face his accusers not make him "seem" guilty?

Why is HE (and NOT the PM) not making a statement about their lack of evidence, or being "stitched" up - sounds like he has enough to pay a good lawyer.
So the Americans are known to do a good stitch-up when they want...really so keen to import another Jamaican drug trafficker into grand USofA...maybe they are after his enterprises - the power that he has there - controlling that little spot in Kingston.
Why is this seat such a safe one for JLP heads?

Seems that Ja has become a society happy to harbour even the potential criminals amongst us...maybe that is what is proving to be the modern Jamaican's downfall.

Was the previous slave rebellions against human injustice, or against had labour?
I genuinely believe that this man is likely guilty -my opinion. But whatever the status - I find it even more disturbing that his supporters see him as the only one who is "capable of keeping the peace".

Does that tell me more about those persons - and their lack of self belief/control. Or does it say more about the governments lack of governance...
Either of these are worrying enough - but these can BOTH be fixed.

Jamaica certainly needs a new political party - one that is neither PNP nor JLP

**evanovitch** · 09-14-2009, 06:41 PM

Re: Behaviour akin to breastfed 10-year olds...

wich pawt a him deh pon di run...an if u r to believe dat him been pon di radar of di US n dat said US no miss notten weh deh a yaad, coo from wen dem could a cawl him up r gi inkling seh dem afta him...my man get all govament contract so he has neva been on di run ...matta of fak, u mite seh him been hiding in plain sight

as to wat direction Jamaica wants to go wid leadership, dat deh gate lock long time..if the inheritors of Joshua's passion grow up to be the recent island breakers, wat u gwine to expek from children who r seeminly consumed wid enlarging dem penis via antshill, r who tink driving in a limo wid a deviant parson is worthwhile cause is aa limo n it spell money...

change is not an abstract thing...di problem is dat we in the diaspora n those on the island continue to hold it as such n continue to wait for the providential fairy dust dat gwine to sprinkle n mek everyting n everybody arrite not to mention change, juss so

we too flipping selfish n indiscipled from top to bottom to <span style="font-weight: bold">effect</span> said change we been tawking of in the abstract ...the last people who showed balls in Ja re mekking change were <span style="font-style: italic">the banana workers who refused to go bk to work even after Manley got them raises they wanted n needed...BUT dem would not tek it r go bak to wuk UNTIL Busta was released from prison.</span>..now dem was Jamaicans waanting change

**Amberal37** · 09-15-2009, 01:24 PM

Re: Behaviour akin to breastfed 10-year olds...

You're entitled to your opinions, but I disagree with your take on this.
1. He might be in plain sight, but he is still hiding behind the protection of the request - but I don't have a problem with the govmnt waiting out the request so there is due process and when caught - he is properly caught. I do have a problem with more protection being given to him than necessary because he is seen as some sort of "saviour" in this community.

2. With such "close" government ties, then he is in a very well place position to "win" government contracts. After all, only the very best contractors win government contracts

3. "dat deh gate lock long time" - Don't know if you are wise to seal the fate of Jamaica juust yet...

4. The action of one child, or few in the whole - does not make the whole. That child could have done something similar in even more developed countries - coupled with conflicting emotions of pre-pub.

5. You are right - change is not abstract...

6. Beyond schooling, neither Manley nor Bustamante hold particular heroic status for me - except the fact that they are part of Jamaica's history...but discipline is a learned behaviour...it must have been neglected somewhere along the link between parenting and schooling.

**evanovitch** · 09-15-2009, 05:53 PM

Re: Behaviour akin to breastfed 10-year olds...

each of us giving our opinions...is all good...

mi juss saying dat i find it to be much ado about nutten really...not condoning wat my guy mite r mite not do r be doing....i just find ,in the realm of drug supply to the US, this chap's supposed involvement is minute....

if u assessing his net worth at J$30m as i have been reading, it does not point to his being a multi-billion informal pharmaceutical distributor as they r alluding..

matter of fact, more prominent people wid real n tangible assets located in re of US judicial oversight, can be dealt with...yet, they continue from strength to strength wid ongle a few whose social origins seem to mek dem fair game

if u serious bout u fight against drug distribution outta yaad, dip a few of di high rankings fi show seh u naw joke

ATTORNEY DENIES 'DUDUS' SNATCHED BY US AUTHORITIES

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