This man irritates me...Jamaica Agriculture minister

[Amberal37]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ministry of Industry, Investment and Commerce


Samuda Says Agriculture not attracting Enough FDIS


KINGSTON (JIS):
Friday, September 18, 2009



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Industry, Investment and Commerce Minister, the Hon. Karl Samuda (left), addressing the global launch in Jamaica of the United Nations Conference on Trade and Development's (UNCTAD) 2009 World Investment Report, at Jamaica Trade and Invest's (JTI) New Kingston office on Thursday (September 17).

Industry, Investment and Commerce Minister, the Hon Karl Samuda, says there is need for an infusion of technology into agriculture, as well as improved packaging and marketing of its products, internationally, if it is to contribute, significantly, to Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) inflows into Jamaica.

Mr. Samuda was addressing the launch of the 2009 United Nations Conference on Trade and Development's (UNCTAD) World Investment Report, which focuses on transnational corporations and agricultural production and development, at the office of Jamaica Trade and Invest (JTI), Trafalgar Road, New Kingston, on Thursday (September 17).

He lamented that agriculture has been a &quot;relatively minimal player&quot; in Foreign Direct Investment inflows to Jamaica. He said that the most recent figures indicate that Agriculture contributes a mere US$1 million which, he argued, suggested that sufficient focus has not been given to building its investment capacity.

&quot;It can't work if we don't identify our priorities, and one of the things that I think can make us move forward, is to be able to offer to the world the type of perception that Jamaica is a country of quality,&quot; Mr. Samuda said</div></div>

here

[Wahalla]

Re: This man irritates me...Jamaica Agriculture minister

Tulloh is the agriculture mininstr not samuda

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: This man irritates me...Jamaica Agriculture minister

It doe not attract foreign investment, because it lack the basic foundation to make it function as a business.

This is no national irrigation scheme,and because of the terrain, it require more than the level of investment and expertise they are willing to invest to support agriculture as a business.
Jamaica does not need foreign direct investment in agriculture. as a matter of fact even with irrigation it will not work, for a foreigner.
since it will not employ the level of workers, nor return the economic returns to the country.

It will only create greater social discontent.

Since they do not create the level of employment,or pay a living wage for an economy like Jamaica. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tulloh is the agriculture minister not samuda </div></div>

[Amberal37]

Re: This man irritates me...Jamaica Agriculture minister

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tulloh is the agriculture mininstr not samuda </div></div>

Well whatever his title - he's in the ministry and sounds like a moaner.

What sort of foreign direct investment is he looking for - a foreign corporation to run the agriculture in Ja and send the money overseas?

[Amberal37]

Re: This man irritates me...Jamaica Agriculture minister

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It doe not attract foreign investment, because it lack the basic foundation to make it function as a business.

This is no national irrigation scheme,and because of the terrain, it require more than the level of investment and expertise they are willing to invest to support agriculture as a business.
Jamaica does not need foreign direct investment in agriculture. as a matter of fact even with irrigation it will not work, for a foreigner.
since it will not employ the level of workers, nor return the economic returns to the country.

It will only create greater social discontent.

Since they do not create the level of employment,or pay a living wage for an economy like Jamaica. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tulloh is the agriculture minister not samuda </div></div> </div></div>

The basic function of a business is satisfying demand. It is established (by the huge and ridiculous items imported), that there is a demand...the domestic market is the starting point.

And what about training? If they are REALLY interested (and of course if this i have the mindset to) then they will find a way to facilitate this.
I know a number of governments who infact supplements there agriculture - precisely to avoid the type of trap that Jamaica has got itself into. Food can be one of the biggest importing bill in ANY country, and even countries that have significantly less resources than Jamaica, ensures that there are mechanisms in place to benefit a homegrown agriculture market. (I think the US also gives huge subsidies too).
Otherwise the will continue haemorrhaging (sp?) money.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: This man irritates me...Jamaica Agriculture minister

The problem is that they don't try to do what <span style="font-weight: bold">is</span> best for Jamaica, They do what <span style="font-weight: bold">foreign advisers </span> tell them is best for Jamaica.
They believe that the best advice is the one the foreigners charge for,and completely ignore those with the greatest interest in Jamaica.

simply because of their colonial thinking.

They are trained to take orders,and even when they have a choice, they look to those who they are taught knows what is better for the country. g<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: amberal37</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tulloh is the agriculture minister not samuda </div></div>

Well whatever his title - he's in the ministry and sounds like a moaner.

What sort of foreign direct investment is he looking for - a foreign corporation to run the agriculture in Ja and send the money overseas?
</div></div>

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: This man irritates me...Jamaica Agriculture minister

The basic function of business <span style="font-weight: bold">is to make as much profit, from the least investment</span>.
. That is what business is all about.
Not really to supply demand.
Supplying the demand is only a means by which they make that profit.

They will also try to make as much of a profit while supplying the least .

That is how you increase profitability. This is what result in reduce expenses, while attempting to maximize profits.

Thatis the only reason why foreign investors seek third world countries to invest.
They have no interest in the country other than as a means to return the highest return of profits, with the least investment.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: amberal37</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It doe not attract foreign investment, because it lack the basic foundation to make it function as a business.

This is no national irrigation scheme,and because of the terrain, it require more than the level of investment and expertise they are willing to invest to support agriculture as a business.
Jamaica does not need foreign direct investment in agriculture. as a matter of fact even with irrigation it will not work, for a foreigner.
since it will not employ the level of workers, nor return the economic returns to the country.

It will only create greater social discontent.

Since they do not create the level of employment,or pay a living wage for an economy like Jamaica. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tulloh is the agriculture minister not samuda </div></div> </div></div>

The basic function of a business is satisfying demand. It is established (by the huge and ridiculous items imported), that there is a demand...the domestic market is the starting point.

And what about training? If they are REALLY interested (and of course if this i have the mindset to) then they will find a way to facilitate this.
I know a number of governments who infant supplements there agriculture - precisely to avoid the type of trap that Jamaica has got itself into. Food can be one of the biggest importing bill in ANY country, and even countries that have significantly less resources than Jamaica, ensures that there are mechanisms in place to benefit a homegrown agriculture market. (I think the US also gives huge subsidies too).
Otherwise the will continue hemorrhaging (sp?) money.
</div></div>

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: This man irritates me...Jamaica Agriculture minister

The basic function of business <span style="font-weight: bold">is to make as much profit, from the least investment</span>.
. That is what business is all about.
Not really to supply demand.
Supplying the demand is only a means by which they make that profit.

They will also try to make as much of a profit while supplying the least .

That is how you increase profitability. This is what result in reduce expenses, while attempting to maximize profits.

Thatis the only reason why foreign investors seek third world countries to invest.
They have no interest in the country other than as a means to return the highest return of profits, with the least investment.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: amberal37</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It doe not attract foreign investment, because it lack the basic foundation to make it function as a business.

This is no national irrigation scheme,and because of the terrain, it require more than the level of investment and expertise they are willing to invest to support agriculture as a business.
Jamaica does not need foreign direct investment in agriculture. as a matter of fact even with irrigation it will not work, for a foreigner.
since it will not employ the level of workers, nor return the economic returns to the country.

It will only create greater social discontent.

Since they do not create the level of employment,or pay a living wage for an economy like Jamaica. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tulloh is the agriculture minister not samuda </div></div> </div></div>

The basic function of a business is satisfying demand. It is established (by the huge and ridiculous items imported), that there is a demand...the domestic market is the starting point.

And what about training? If they are REALLY interested (and of course if this i have the mindset to) then they will find a way to facilitate this.
I know a number of governments who infant supplements there agriculture - precisely to avoid the type of trap that Jamaica has got itself into. Food can be one of the biggest importing bill in ANY country, and even countries that have significantly less resources than Jamaica, ensures that there are mechanisms in place to benefit a homegrown agriculture market. (I think the US also gives huge subsidies too).
Otherwise the will continue hemorrhaging (sp?) money.
</div></div>

[Amberal37]

Re: This man irritates me...Jamaica Agriculture minister

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...
Thatis the only reason why foreign investors seek third world countries to invest.
They have no interest in the country other than as a means to return the highest return of profits, with the least investment. </div></div>

Well this has just demonstrated my point hasn't it, about why he should not be actively seeking investment in these areas.

There is already foreign investment for the sugar, coffee, and some other key products in Ja. the minister needs to understand the limitations before it becomes disadvantageous for the foreign ownership to extend further - otherwise they WILL be back to square one with that import situation...then another conversation on this 20 years later, until they get the methods right

[acceptedtoday]

Re: This man irritates me...Jamaica Agriculture minister

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The basic function of business <span style="font-weight: bold">is to make as much profit, from the least investment</span>.
. That is what business is all about.
Not really to supply demand.
Supplying the demand is only a means by which they make that profit.

They will also try to make as much of a profit while supplying the least .

That is how you increase profitability. This is what result in reduce expenses, while attempting to maximize profits.

Thatis the only reason why foreign investors seek third world countries to invest.
They have no interest in the country other than as a means to return the highest return of profits, with the least investment.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: amberal37</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It doe not attract foreign investment, because it lack the basic foundation to make it function as a business.

This is no national irrigation scheme,and because of the terrain, it require more than the level of investment and expertise they are willing to invest to support agriculture as a business.
Jamaica does not need foreign direct investment in agriculture. as a matter of fact even with irrigation it will not work, for a foreigner.
since it will not employ the level of workers, nor return the economic returns to the country.

It will only create greater social discontent.

Since they do not create the level of employment,or pay a living wage for an economy like Jamaica.

Tulloh is the agriculture minister not samuda </div></div> </div></div>

The basic function of a business is satisfying demand. It is established (by the huge and ridiculous items imported), that there is a demand...the domestic market is the starting point.

And what about training? If they are REALLY interested (and of course if this i have the mindset to) then they will find a way to facilitate this.
I know a number of governments who infant supplements there agriculture - precisely to avoid the type of trap that Jamaica has got itself into. Food can be one of the biggest importing bill in ANY country, and even countries that have significantly less resources than Jamaica, ensures that there are mechanisms in place to benefit a homegrown agriculture market. (I think the US also gives huge subsidies too).
Otherwise the will continue hemorrhaging (sp?) money.
</div></div>

First time I find your analysis of agriculture in Jamaica on point.

There are market sectors and market sub-sectors for Jamaican agricultural produce.
Within sub sectors the are niche markets.
Jamaica traditional export agriculture by and large still functions at the colonial level.
With few exceptions BM Coffee, Ugli (patented) Ortanique a sport that grows well in selected microzones our traditional export are commodities which compete only by means of trade agreements with produce form similar export zones.

In these commodities the capital investment is already in place or low tech. (Sugar plantations, banana packing houses cocoa bean roasting etc.)

The non traditional exports are in the majority local produce sold to ethnic or the jamaican diaspora markets abroad, in these exports little capital is invested as traditional hillside farming does not lend itself to mechanization as in yams and as you said little of Jamaica's arable lands are under irrigation production.

When Jamaicans think of agriculture its generally of some aspect of non traditional farming and the food produced for the local market. There is the fallacy that what cannot be sold locally can be exported or canned for export.

The reality is that the local market is nondiscriminatory to established export varietal preferences and base their preference on taste which has a market but a niche market.

The established preferences for export varieties are known more important the color shape and packaging is codified and we produce a minuscule quality of these varieties that can compete in quality on the international market or change established preferences with the level of capital investment we employ in local production.


Its in the value added products our sauces, and blends that we have market penetration in niche markets and the name Jamaica have been established in the culinary market, but this market is trendy and can be oversold.

What the Minister is saying that the rest of the world have moved on with agriculture as a means of low wage employment to mechanization and technology to produce high yield high value produce but this requires significant capital investment of the kind that local farmers would be unwilling or unable to invest.

There a saying
How to make a small fortune?
Start with a large one and go into agriculture.

There is a place for high tech production of a sub sector of crops with a niche market that can be produced with the low wage base in Jamaica which make foriegn direct investment attractive and profitable.

Organic greenhouse vegatables one possibility, no soil means no pathogens so the competitive advantage is not Jamaican soil flavour but the local cheap labor force the strong agricultural culture and the &quot;english&quot; speaking workforce and the proximity to the US market through airfreight.

Cry exploitation.

The technology stays when the foriegn investors leave and hopefully will be exploited by local risk takers as fish farming and drip irrigation was when the Isreali spring plain agriculture project ended.

Capatalism is about the use of capital to produce profits.
What Jamaica's export agriculture suffers from is the lack of capital.

[Wahalla]

Re: This man irritates me...Jamaica Agriculture minister

Part[b]What Jamaica's export agriculture suffers from is the lack of capital/b]

why invest in local agriculture if you can get 18 % from goverment bonds ???

I not going to argue about the body, but the conclusion is only partially correct...

We lack updated skills, quality control, training, modern marketing, social kudos, land (yes legal land) and a dr Dudds favorite bedbug, secure continous reliable source of water...

[Amberal37]

Re: This man irritates me...Jamaica Agriculture minister

There's so much to address in your post, but I will start at the top and say that I think that the whole argument is jumping the fence a little.

Jamaica has derived its F/C position due to two major factors 1) Imports too much, and 2) does not export enough.

Starting at the easier position, a large chunk of the import bill consists of food that it CAN produce locally.

Looking at what it has NOW to work with - then it is recognised that there is domestic demand that can be replaced with domestic supply -hence in the short-term, to focus on reducing the import bill. (This does not negate products that are already on par for international export, and just needs to retain or expand their market position)

Finally, yes the rest of the world may have moved on, so Jamaica needs to look at what it HASN'T got, and what it needs to get in order to meet the external markets. This obviously calls for strategic thinking...support those markets that already have penetration, think both short-term in terms of what CAN be done now, and look long-term at how that can be achieved through the short term aims.

Today's backyard farmer's children, can be tomorrow's mass agri-producer.

Honing it's skills with the domestic market, is one means of implementing sustainable practices by which to strengthen a market fit for sustainable export with upgraded/modernised systems.

The added advantage with this is that in the meantime you are reducing your import demands, thereby conserving your F/C spends. Try even looking at India or China and see how they meet their huge domestic food market.

I don't think that lack of capital is the problem, I think lack of prioritisation has been the issue, and the fact that Agriculture has been looked down on for decades (afterall who wants to be a farmer - &quot;dutty wuk!&quot.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Perception has to change, and this is a pivotal time for the government to make this happen</span>. This sector has the potential to benefit substantially from the money brought in through tourism, but children from schooling age, as well as graduates need to see this as a valuable <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">profession</span></span>.

Yes, those in the industry need to be adequately compensated through wages and resources. Out of all the 1.2m working population - Jamaica has the plus of Tourism (like oil is some countries), agriculture, private enterprise, banking, housing/construction, security (army/police), teaching/social professions, et.al (I'm sure others can think of a good few).

It has ENOUGH to oil the wheel to put it's working populaton into action, so that it does not creat excuse for many to resort to crime and local begging.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: This man irritates me...Jamaica Agriculture minister

There are so much to discuss, but the point that stares out at me is this stereotype of Jamaican not wanting to do&quot;dirty work&quot;. That is a creation similar to the one that Jamaicans are lazy&quot;.
Yet these they are all willing to line up and pay big monies and go the the US to do the same &quot;dutty work&quot;.
and are always in demand in the US for their ability to outdo all comers in the &quot;dirty work&quot;.

Every statistic relating to Jamaicans attitude to all forms of work tend to the opposite.
Yet supposedly educated people still keep making these unsubstantiated statements.

This is because it is promoted by those who do not or are not able to pay attractive enough wages. One that people van support a family on.
Is there any work dirtier than to cut burnt sugar cane?
What about bauxite mining? and I won't even think about construction in the industry that cement is the primary material.
The majority of Jamaican immigrant labour are employed in agriculture.
Many have done in annually for all their working lives, and the attractiveness is always more than the demand. yet they are not interested in :&quot;dirty work&quot;.

Now where are the the supporting stories?
When the Jamaican elite want to employ foreigners, they complain that Jamaicans don't want work.
Yet they will not pay Jamaicans a living wage, while they give foreigners, palatial abode and hotel accounts in addition to their bloated salaries.

Yet they expect Jamaican to work for barely above the minimum wage.

Can I say that I hate hearing this?

Or would that be too harsh?? <span style="font-weight: bold">OK I will say it irritates me. I think that should be acceptable. </span>

[CeaBee]

Re: This man irritates me...Jamaica Agriculture minister

*what are your thoughts on this article Dr. Dudd?

__________________________________________________ ___________

Not an easy road: Farming in Jamaica by Jodi Brown-Lindo
Monday, 19 May 2008


As we look at the rising cost of food, we go to the source....the breadbasket of St. Elizabeth to hear how farmers feel about the local farming sector and whether we have what it takes to feed ourselves.

Country sides filled with lush green vegetation, arable lands for miles.......just turn anywhere outside of the corporate area and this description could fit most parishes.

Faced with a possible food crisis these are seen as the strong foundations needed to enhance a farming sector in order to enable us to feed ourselves....... but is that enough?

Well the way the farmers tell the story ...it's not.

More farmers than buyers

We journeyed to the bread basket of St. Elizabeth where Farmers say they have been planting more than enough but have been plagued with problems and no markets to sell their produce.

Under a mango tree in Hounslow we caught up with Donald Bent, a farmer for 20 years.

&quot;Just about anything that farmers plant now is a problem...whether is not tomato, is melon, when its not melon, its carrot, when its not carrot, its peppers,&quot; said Mr. Bent.

Mr. Bent currently farms two acres of cash crops mainly peanut, pumpkin, potatoes and some cassava.

A slender man in his early forties he was eager to tell his story.

Mr. Bent said at many intervals in his career he became very excited at the prospects of planting more and on a few occasions he did. But faced with drought and lack of a reliable water supply, those prospects were soon dimmed.

&quot;I am not going to let that big talk on radio swell my head. I've tried expanding already and hear a lot of the big talk on radio and nothing,&quot;

&quot;I have lost a lot. The other day I planted some pumpkin and corn and they have not moved,&quot; he said.

Cassava, anyone?

Although he currently plants cassava he does not believe it is an investment most farmers would want to take on.

&quot;The younger farmers are not into cassava, they want a faster crop because it takes a year for it to mature.

And the market is another thing because the one little factory in Goshen closed down so I don't know where we are going to sell it,&quot; he said.

Burnette Buchanan agrees. He sees expanding and diversifying as a good idea but not into cassava!

&quot;I always have a little cassava but I never planned to go into it all the way because I find progress in what I am planting already,&quot; said Mr. Buchanan.

For Wade Graham, the idea is not a feasible one, especially for farmers who depend on crops that have a quick turn around.

&quot;It takes too long for it to turn around, you will die of hunger. One year and one day to scrape and another day to wring and grater, we can't bother with that,&quot; said Mr. Graham.

Trevor Salmon lives in Santa Cruz but farms in Hounslow.

In his early sixties he lamented that all this could have been prevented if the food farm initiative which had been launched in the 1970's had been maintained.

He believes that at the root of the problem in getting farmers to plant more is land.

He says farmers are forced to lease properties as most of the arable lands have been sold to persons who are not interested in farming.

&quot;A lot of people who are not interested in farming get these lands and we have to lease it or sublease it from them,&quot; he said.

Too much of one thing

We then caught up with Hopelyn Salmon - the lone female farmer we came upon in Hounslow- as she mixed pesticide to spray her callaloo and pumpkin plot.

For her one of the greatest problems with marketing lies with farmers themselves.

&quot;Many of the farmers go into the same crop so you have a glut. I would say they could send some more extension officers around and streamline the crops,&quot;

&quot;They could come and say ‘you can plant this, we have a market for that kind of crop' and you go to the next man and say ‘you plant that I have a certain amount of market for that' so you know that when you put in all your effort there is a market there to take it from you,&quot;

Despite the challenges the farmers say they are willing to go on......but only if the government can prove it is serious about the sector.

&quot;For me to really plant more I would have to get more water and see the market open up but most times they just come and tell us to plant and when you plant, it waste,&quot; she said.

&quot;Farmers cannot find a market for themselves. If these crops come in right now and we don't have any market there should be a proper place like a cold storage where the government takes it off you and keeps it until they need it or until they find a market for it,&quot; she continued.

http://www.radiojamaica.com/content/view/8235/81/

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: This man irritates me...Jamaica Agriculture minister

If you read the piece carefully you will see the trail of the deficiencies I pointed out in all my previous posts.
this is a very old piece and i think I wrote some on it before.

The problem with St Elizabeth is they attempt to use irrigation system that is not reliable and in most cases unaffordable.

They rely on public utility to power the pumps of rather well,ad they also place the pumps at heights that becomes inundated when the plain flood on a regular basis.
One of the problem they have is flooded out electrical pump motors.
They just keep replacing them as they can afford.
instead of elevating the pump above the flood level, to avoid it.
Is things like these that does not happen ion Jamaica.

this is because they rely on foreign consultants, and don't listen to locals.
farmers will never find markets until they overcome the inability to guarantee regular supply. They will never be able to do that until they can access regular water source at reasonable rates. In other words. Nothing they do in agriculture will be a success until they can guarantee the basic of regular water supply at reasonable rates. I still can't help myself in believing that the majority of Jamaicans really don't use their brain to solve problem. They look to others. Otherwise they would have demanded it. They whole economy will grow if agriculture has a regular water source. It is not simple to produce, but that is what they have to do. In life we have to play the hand we are dealt. And the hand we are dealt is mountainous terrain that need an agricultural system.
In Egypt Their irrigation system consist of making cistern that hold water over flow of the Nile for the months they don'the water.
That is not simple, but they solve their problem . In Jamaica awe want to have plains to create an irrigation system.
I suppose that is why they are selling of the land .
although we have regular periods of flood, but we refuse to save some of that water to use during the periods of drought.ater

Sooner or later all the mountains will be exported as limestone or bauxite and we will have plains to establish the sort of irrigation we want. Let then starve or riot until then.