Many Jamaicans still denied jobs and services

**Wahalla** · 03-07-2010, 04:12 PM

Re: Many Jamaicans still denied jobs and services

When I made this point a couple weeks ago, I was not taken seriously.. it takes a printed article... this has been a multiple generational issue. My question still stands what is the mobility in and out of these sink communities..

Other question given the perpensity for dons to abuse the people in their areas is there not a genuwine fear of an employee being compomised ? given these minor warlords abusive behaviour is there not a fear that these guys will place pressure on the resident to abuse the employers trust ??/

**Dr.Dudd** · 03-07-2010, 05:47 PM

Re: Many Jamaicans still denied jobs and services

Well the majority of the middle clas have some connection to those places.
Since these places wer not always inthose conditions.
they evolved to that point over time. And as soon as the more educated and better financed moved out.
many od those properties are owned by people who cannot put foot down there.
So the mobillity is there, only they use the address of other relatives to gain employment.
And move as soon as they can afford to.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When I made this point a couple weeks ago, I was not taken seriously.. it takes a printed article... this has been a multiple generational issue. My question still stands what is the mobility in and out of these sink communities..

Other question given the perpensity for dons to abuse the people in their areas is there not a genuwine fear of an employee being compomised ? given these minor warlords abusive behaviour is there not a fear that these guys will place pressure on the resident to abuse the employers trust ??/ </div></div>

**barosa** · 03-08-2010, 03:52 AM

Re: Many Jamaicans still denied jobs and services

[quote=Wahalla]When I made this point a couple weeks ago, I was not taken seriously.. it takes a printed article... this has been a multiple generational issue. <span style="font-weight: bold">My question still stands what is the mobility in and out of these sink communities..</span>

<span style="font-style: italic">That ques. can only be answered by some agency that should know. However, the problem is not new and is getting worse which means that if aspiring members of communities falling in this category are not given chances similar to those from the "good communities, everyone will eventually "pay a price". A hungry man is an ANGRY man and he will steal to eat or feed his family; that is a given but he will be commiting a criminal act...</span>

Other question given the perpensity for dons to abuse the people in their areas is there not a genuwine fear of an employee being compomised ? given these minor warlords abusive behaviour is there not a fear that these guys will place pressure on the resident to abuse the employers trust ??/

<span style="font-style: italic">The questions are all valid ones, but how will communities benefit or feel safer if dons are allowed to call the shots, thus affecting the normal routine of "life".. What will happen if more communities become private domains of more and more dons and war lords? Urban areas would evolve into a patchwork of adjoining garrisons and most including the ambitious ones could be stifled from moving out or getting the jobs they are qualified for. The best solution is doing away with garrisons and let people fend for themselves which is easier said than done...</span>
__________________________

Man to man is so unjust, who knows who to trust?

**Dr.Dudd** · 03-08-2010, 09:48 PM

Re: Many Jamaicans still denied jobs and services

How do you propose they 'do away with garrisons?
Do you believe that the government will be successful at retrieving all the guns out there/
Do you believe that the government will be able to prevent police officers from selling arms they seize and ammunition they claim they use in gunfight?
How will this garrisons be done away with?
Follow the Us strategy, and end up with it being so rampant that the have to destroy over a thousand apartments in Chicago?
Cabrini Green I think the project was called.

**barosa** · 03-09-2010, 02:05 AM

Re: Many Jamaicans still denied jobs and services

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How do you propose they 'do away with garrisons?
Do you believe that the government will be successful at retrieving all the guns out there/
Do you believe that the government will be able to prevent police officers from selling arms they seize and ammunition they claim they use in gunfight?
How will this garrisons be done away with?
Follow the Us strategy, and end up with it being so rampant that the have to destroy over a thousand apartments in Chicago?
Cabrini Green I think the project was called. </div></div>
Asking questions are easy, comming up with answers are not quite as easy if one wants to be credible. ~ I googled the "Cabrini Project" to see the comparison with our garrisons and although the situation in Chicago is different, there are lessons in "social engineering" for us to learn.

Page Not Found: 404 Not Found -

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/12/11/60II/main532704.shtml

___________________________

"At a time of universal deceit," wrote George Orwell, "telling the truth is a revolutionary act."

**Dr.Dudd** · 03-09-2010, 02:26 PM

Re: Many Jamaicans still denied jobs and services

So you think it will work?/
Do you think that the proximity to wealthy people who are dumb enough to live amongst unemployed,people who's habits are a little less affluent than theirs, will work out?/
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: barosa</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How do you propose they 'do away with garrisons?
Do you believe that the government will be successful at retrieving all the guns out there/
Do you believe that the government will be able to prevent police officers from selling arms they seize and ammunition they claim they use in gunfight?
How will this garrisons be done away with?
Follow the Us strategy, and end up with it being so rampant that the have to destroy over a thousand apartments in Chicago?
Cabrini Green I think the project was called. </div></div>
Asking questions are easy, comming up with answers are not quite as easy if one wants to be credible. ~ I googled the "Cabrini Project" to see the comparison with our garrisons and although the situation in Chicago is different, there are lessons in "social engineering" for us to learn.

Page Not Found: 404 Not Found -

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/12/11/60II/main532704.shtml

___________________________

"At a time of universal deceit," wrote George Orwell, "telling the truth is a revolutionary act."
</div></div>

**britisha** · 03-11-2010, 02:43 PM

Re: Many Jamaicans still denied jobs and services

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When I made this point a couple weeks ago, I was not taken seriously.. it takes a printed article... this has been a multiple generational issue. My question still stands what is the mobility in and out of these sink communities..

Other question given the perpensity for dons to abuse the people in their areas is there not a genuwine fear of an employee being compomised ? given these minor warlords abusive behaviour is there not a fear that these guys will place pressure on the resident to abuse the employers trust ??/ </div></div>

Maybe you had taken leave of the board when Barosa and I many moons ago made reference to this wicked practice...so we do take this seriously.

I even went on to say that many who are doing this, their parents or grandparents used to reside in those same areas, using tinnin lamps and outside toilets before these areas became "no man's land...Once upon a time there weren't that many residential areas above Cross Roads or Half-Way-Tree...

As we said before the creme dee la creme neighborhoods in Kingston included places Jones Town, Greenwich Town and even Vineyard Town...goh some a dese places if """YUH"" bad now. Mi hear seh all places like Retreat Drive off Constant Sprng Road one better tread cautiously; so the question becomes what are these peoplke who are seeking jobs to really do?

I hear your questions which didn't cross my mind, but some comments I've heard is tht people from certain neighbourhoods/areas will behave in the same way on the job like undisciplined ones that they live among...something I tend not to agree with.

Why would smaddie jeopardise their job with bad behaviour, and who lie an teef an bad ways like some a dem white collar criminal from so-called uptown?

What these employers don't realise is this, in denying these people opportunities they might be doing their bizniz a disservice, for the one [prospective employee] with the better brain might just reside in the less fortunate areas.

**barosa** · 03-12-2010, 06:33 PM

Re: Many Jamaicans still denied jobs and services

As somewhat of a "preface", I'll say that to really understand the situation, an awareness of the historical context of the areas in Kingston and parts of St Andrew prior to and now under Donmanship as "garrisons" is required.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe you had taken leave of the board when Barosa and I many moons ago made reference to this wicked practice...so we do take this seriously.

I even went on to say that many who are doing this, their parents or grandparents used to reside in those same areas, using tinnin lamps and outside toilets before these areas became "no man's land...Once upon a time there weren't that many residential areas above Cross Roads or Half-Way-Tree...</div></div>
That was true for many communities within what we now know as Kingston. For example, sewer systems was not widespread throughout the corporate area or even in UP-town St Andrew. Electrification was more the priority. In old Kgn there were public Gas lamps...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As we said before the creme dee la creme neighborhoods in Kingston included places Jones Town, Greenwich Town and even Vineyard Town...goh some a dese places if """YUH"" bad now. Mi hear seh all places like Retreat Drive off Constant Sprng Road one better tread cautiously; so the question becomes what are these peoplke who are seeking jobs to really do?</div></div>
My late Aunt used to live off Retreat Dr. If it has slipped, I'm not surprised. The other areas mentioned among others like Alman Town, Whitfield Town and Franklin Town were bedrock communities on which Kingston was built. These areas plus smaller ones became "garrisons" after the "cream della crem" migrated, or move uptown to modern housing, leaving the less fortunate to bear the stigma. That aint right!!! Our Political masters created this situation which seems to be spreading to other neighborhoods in Jamaica...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why would smaddie jeopardise their job with bad behaviour, and who lie an teef an bad ways like some a dem white collar criminal from so-called uptown?

What these employers don't realise is this, in denying these people opportunities they might be doing their bizniz a disservice, for the one [prospective employee] with the better brain might just reside in the less fortunate areas. </div></div>
Many of these employers are limited in their scope and are themselves product of bigotry and predjudice which they used against those unlike themselves. I am talking about "Jamaica whites"... ~ Sure, they are a few who departed from the "norm" and were condescending, but they were/are few in between when you think of it... Classism still remains one of our major drawback in becomming a united people... Is it any wonder that Joshua and others, even some who are "black" exploited it for political and other purposes?...
_______________________

"At a time of universal deceit," wrote George Orwell, "telling the truth is a revolutionary act."

**johnnycakes** · 03-12-2010, 07:24 PM

Re: Many Jamaicans still denied jobs and services

You all just don't appreciate the fact that anyone can get an education, learn the skills necessary to get a good job and thrive in Jamaica or any other country with a capitalist economy.

Likewise under capitalism an employer has the right to hire or refuse to hire anyone they so choose.

Of course while ANY ONE can better themselves not EVERY ONE can.

There will always be about 1/4 to 1/2 the people in a poor country like Jamaica who will be poor all their lives no matter how hard they try.
It's just the way the economic system works.

Stop the whining.

**britisha** · 03-13-2010, 08:58 AM

Re: Many Jamaicans still denied jobs and services

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: barosa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As somewhat of a "preface", I'll say that to really understand the situation, an awareness of the historical context of the areas in Kingston and parts of St Andrew prior to and now under Donmanship as "garrisons" is required.

That was true for many communities within what we now know as Kingston. For example, sewer systems was not widespread throughout the corporate area or even in UP-town St Andrew. Electrification was more the priority. In old Kgn there were public Gas lamps...

My late Aunt used to live off Retreat Dr. If it has slipped, I'm not surprised. The other areas mentioned among others like Alman Town, Whitfield Town and Franklin Town were bedrock communities on which Kingston was built. These areas plus smaller ones became "garrisons" after the "cream della crem" migrated, or move uptown to modern housing, leaving the less fortunate to bear the stigma. That aint right!!! Our Political masters created this situation which seems to be spreading to other neighborhoods in Jamaica...

Many of these employers are limited in their scope and are themselves product of bigotry and predjudice which they used against those unlike themselves. I am talking about "Jamaica whites"... ~ Sure, they are a few who departed from the "norm" and were condescending, but they were/are few in between when you think of it... Classism still remains one of our major drawback in becomming a united people... Is it any wonder that Joshua and others, even some who are "black" exploited it for political and other purposes?...</div></div>

I hope I understand what "Jamaican whites" mean here B.

...for when mi was growing hup in Jamaica, I had a better time dealing with white people in Jamaica fron "infant school" right up until I left the country...if anything, I had a harder time dealing with my own black people, and including "mulattoes."...[since mucho a dem still tink dem noh black]

Having said that I tend to agree that those who are treating the less fortunate who find themselves living in these poorer stigmatised neighborhoods are somehow meting the SAME "bigotry and prejudice" that was meted out to their fore parents in days gone by.

The thing is, the cycle has to be broken...financial independence is a means to doing so; and this cannot be achieved without having access to jobs; decent paying ones at that.

Hiff some a di people agguh still tink seh dem bettah dan dem "fellow Jamaicans" den di countrie naaah goh progress, and any fool can si that that is whay is holding the country back; but some a dem juss cyaan' seet, dem so haff their heads in their rears....think why sub-cultures are born..
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**barosa** · 03-13-2010, 08:25 PM

Re: Many Jamaicans still denied jobs and services

I hope I understand what "Jamaican whites" mean here B.

<span style="font-style: italic">Faithfully, I'm sure you do. It's just that we have so many varieties of them that are not 'bona fide' whites. Because of that, one doesn't know which group is now at the top of the food chain...</span>

...for when mi was growing hup in Jamaica, I had a better time dealing with white people in Jamaica fron "infant school" right up until I left the country...if anything, I had a harder time dealing with my own black people, and including "mulattoes."...[since mucho a dem still tink dem noh black]

<span style="font-style: italic">Well there you go! you said it. But in those days, we were not as radicalised and went with the flow which was OK with them... As things were and still are, many of the lighter skin mulattoes try to pass for "whites" and so they intermarry within their own groups to maintain "the whiteness"... Those who are not "so white" in appearance are shunned by this group while "they" are shunning those who have a darker hue than themselves. ~ It goes without saying, that this attitude is replicated all the way down to the "blackest" among us... No true!</span>

Having said that I tend to agree that those who are treating the less fortunate who find themselves living in these poorer stigmatised neighborhoods are somehow meting the SAME "bigotry and prejudice" that was meted out to their fore parents in days gone by.
<span style="font-style: italic">As they say, What goes around, comes around..</span>

The thing is, the cycle has to be broken...financial independence is a means to doing so; and this cannot be achieved without having access to jobs; decent paying ones at that. ~ Hiff some a di people agguh still tink seh dem bettah dan dem "fellow Jamaicans" den di countrie naaah goh progress, and any fool can si that that is whay is holding the country back; but some a dem juss cyaan' seet, dem so haff their heads in their rears....think why sub-cultures are born..

<span style="font-style: italic">I agree. ~ `Yu memba Joshua! dis is what im did have in mind, but he tried to do it too quickly and it backfired... As an half cast, he was well aware of the social divisions and used socialism to correct or changed it... His problem was that, he heightened the class warfare game, made himself an enemy of the upper classes including "Jamaica whites" of which he was one a dem, unleashed the impatience and violence of the under-class and messed up Jamaica. Garrisons mushroomed during his stewardship as head of state</span>
__________________________

"At a time of universal deceit," wrote George Orwell, "telling the truth is a revolutionary act."

**britisha** · 03-14-2010, 08:31 AM

Re: Many Jamaicans still denied jobs and services

Aah B; I hear you.

... so much that *I* could say.

We need more than newspaper articles. Advocates are needed to push for laws on the books that can be used to penalise those who discriminate against JAMAICAN job applicants based on flim flam reasons...just as there are laws in other countries to guard against discrimination based on eg race/disability etc.

The Jamaican government should put it's money where it's mouth is, do the right thing; but that would be too progressive....

Many Jamaicans still denied jobs and services

Many Jamaicans still denied jobs and services

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