Guns in Jamaica - the right to bear arms?

[quodlibet]

It is obvious to even the careless observer that Jamaica is not short of weapons, even though general possession is supposed to be illegal.

Lets discuss the opinion that "IF HAVING A GUN BREAKS THE LAW, THEN ONLY LAWBREAKERS WILL HAVE THE GUNS"

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Guns in Jamaica - the right to bear arms?

Now What is There This discuss? ?

That is obvious.

Now the question of the restricting the right to ownership and convenience of arms to a recognizable minority, will render the others without arms as targets of crimes by the criminal owners of guns.

This is the policy in place in Jamaica .

The policy also aid criminals in acquiring guns illegally from recognized owners, by outnumbering And surprising them.

It Also increase the incidences of murdering these victims to protect the identity of the robbers.

So Jamaica does not have an insoluble crime problem.

It has a crime problem That is the result if it's gun policy.

This policy us based on political or power balance concerns.

All thus by putting the lives if the majority at risk And eventually the country.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quodlibet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is obvious to even the careless observer that Jamaica is not short of weapons, even though general possession is supposed to be illegal.

Lets discuss the opinion that &quot;IF HAVING A GUN BREAKS THE LAW, THEN ONLY LAWBREAKERS WILL HAVE THE GUNS&quot; </div></div>

[barosa]

Re: Guns in Jamaica - the right to bear arms?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quodlibet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is obvious to even the careless observer that Jamaica is not short of weapons, even though general possession is supposed to be illegal.

Lets discuss the opinion that &quot;IF HAVING A GUN BREAKS THE LAW, THEN ONLY LAWBREAKERS WILL HAVE THE GUNS&quot; </div></div>
I am not sure I accept the opinion as stated but what I'll say is this: &quot;Having an ILLEGAL gun does breaks the law&quot;.. The situation that exist in Jamaica today is one where most people who have Guns are LAWBREAKERS because they possess many that were legal, then stolen and become &quot;illegal&quot; in their hands. Added to those are guns given to gang members as a &quot;tool of their trade&quot; by their Leaders or Dons...

With the advent of Garrison politics and growth of political gangs in Kingston and regions across Jamaica, it's obvious that the growth of illegal guns have surpassed the total number of legal ones held by those who got theirs the right way... My sumation is this: Lawbreakers/CRIMINALS have more guns than Law abiding citizens because of the colusion of politicians and Criminal agencies... You can draw your own conclusions bases on these facts...
_______________________________

At a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act: George Orwell

[quodlibet]

Re: Guns in Jamaica - the right to bear arms?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: barosa</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quodlibet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is obvious to even the careless observer that Jamaica is not short of weapons, even though general possession is supposed to be illegal.

Lets discuss the opinion that &quot;IF HAVING A GUN BREAKS THE LAW, THEN ONLY LAWBREAKERS WILL HAVE THE GUNS&quot; </div></div>
I am not sure I accept the opinion as stated but what I'll say is this: &quot;Having an ILLEGAL gun does breaks the law&quot;.. The situation that exist in Jamaica today is one where most people who have Guns are LAWBREAKERS because they possess many that were legal, then stolen and become &quot;illegal&quot; in their hands. Added to those are guns given to gang members as a &quot;tool of their trade&quot; by their Leaders or Dons...

With the advent of Garrison politics and growth of political gangs in Kingston and regions across Jamaica, it's obvious that the growth of illegal guns have surpassed the total number of legal ones held by those who got theirs the right way... My sumation is this: Lawbreakers/CRIMINALS have more guns than Law abiding citizens because of the colusion of politicians and Criminal agencies... You can draw your own conclusions bases on these facts...
_______________________________

At a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act: George Orwell
</div></div>

Barosa, as Dudd said: <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...
Now the question of the restricting the right to ownership and convenience of arms to a recognizable minority, <span style="font-weight: bold">will render the others without arms as targets of crimes by the criminal owners of guns</span>.
...</div></div> (emphasis mine)

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Guns in Jamaica - the right to bear arms?

As long ad guns are in a society legally, guns will be stolen.

Just like any other item is stolen, guns will be stolen.

As long as guns are stolen there will be illegal guns.

Illegal guns are only as effective as a tool of crime against unarmed citizens, or by out gunning, and overpowering legal Gun owners.
This can be solved with one stroke.

This is By simply allowing all citizens the right to legal firearms.

Why is this so hard to fathom??

Is it That our socialization of bring fearful so overpowering??

Talk about mental slavery.

Like the old Indian fable where the farmer taught his sheep to fear running away, and that the butcher will take them to heaven.

Well they all believed him and he didn't need any fence either.

They were too happilly looking forward to the visit of the butcher's cart to take them.

[johnnycakes]

Re: Guns in Jamaica - the right to bear arms?

Not so Dr Dudd,

Evidence the United States. It is a violent society with a very high murder rate involving the easy to obtain firearms.

Adding more guns to an already violent society does not, never has lowered the murder rate.
Canada has more guns per capita than does the United States but they have a very low murder rate comparatively. The Canadian society is less violent so the higher number of guns does not matter but add more guns to an already out of control murderous society and you naturally wind up with more killings.

The same gun that is bought to protect a family often winds up killing a member of that family and not in the defense of the family from a criminal attack

No ...more guns are not the answer.
The answer is a society that has no reason to murder which is always tied to poverty and despair which abound in Jamaica..

[barosa]

Re: Guns in Jamaica - the right to bear arms?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The same gun that is bought to protect a family often winds up killing a member of that family and not in the defense of the family from a criminal attack

No ...more guns are not the answer.
The answer is a society that has no reason to murder which is always tied to poverty and despair which abound in Jamaica.. </div></div>
I agree that poverty and despair abounds in Jamaica like many third world nations, but you forgot to mention that frustration and corruption are as high on the list and when added to the afore-mentioned, produces a very volatile and incendiary situation.

Before Britain handed the island over to us, we had guns in many households. These were mainly wealthy Jamaicans who could afford to have them and obtained them legally; I might add that ordinary foks were not afraid of these folks who had them since they had lives and properties to protect and besides, British jurisprudence was adequate for mis-use... I personally support the private ownership of guns &quot;legally&quot;

The EVENTS of the 60's and 70's with both Manley and Seaga as rivals on both sides of the &quot;cold war&quot;, ushered in the period of &quot;tribal politics&quot; which we are still immersed in and with it came the GUNS. ~ These guns are from the US and for the most part are illegal, and are now in the hands of Political Gangsters, Area Leaders and their Bosses, the Dons. The question I'm asking: Can we ever undo or roll back what our politricians have saddled us with, post independence and if they can, HOW??
_________________________

Like oil, the truth always floats to the top.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Guns in Jamaica - the right to bear arms?

You are very quick to point out That crime In Kingston is not the same as crime in Westmoreland.

This is while talking about possible influence of the violence in Kingston And your property in the west.

Yet you Conveniently lump the whole US When discussing gun crime statistics.

Although a close examination of the figures, one as close as you look at the Kingston /Westmoreland comparison would show the exact opposite of the point you are trying to make.

A closer examination if the figures will show That, in the USA, high gun crimes are concentrated in the neighborhoods where the legal ownership of guns are sparse to nonexistent.

The people who are shooting as the ones being shot are prevented from owning guns legally.

Usually due to criminal or the lack of money to get lawyer This fight the legal objection.

You know quite well That the neighborhoods That both of us reside, have high incidence of legal gun owneshhip.

Yet these areas, like All such areas in the US have very low incidences of gun crimes.

Yet you completely ignore this fact in your rush to propose your flawed information.

Yes it is true that legal guns are often used against families members.

But the incidences of these are statistically insignificant when seen against the total number of legal guns in the population.

I notice e That automobiles kill more people Than guns in the USA annually, yet there is no justification of restrictions.

There was a time When the same flawed justification was usgd against educating black people too.

I hope the day will come when this spurious story will be seen as rediculous as 'educsted blacks are 'a danger to the community's good'.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not so Dr Dudd,

Evidence the United States. It is a violent society with a very high murder rate involving the easy to obtain firearms.

Adding more guns to an already violent society does not, never has lowered the murder rate.
Canada has more guns per capita than does the United States but they have a very low murder rate comparatively. The Canadian society is less violent so the higher number of guns does not matter but add more guns to an already out of control murderous society and you naturally wind up with more killings.

The same gun that is bought to protect a family often winds up killing a member of that family and not in the defense of the family from a criminal attack

No ...more guns are not the answer.
The answer is a society that has no reason to murder which is always tied to poverty and despair which abound in Jamaica.. </div></div>

[quodlibet]

Re: Guns in Jamaica - the right to bear arms?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">&quot;..Yes it is true that legal guns are often used against families members.

But the incidences of these are statistically insignificant when seen against the total number of legal guns in the population.
...&quot;</span></span></div></div>

Also, family members dont need guns to kill or maim each other, it is just another way to do so.

If I am not mistaken, more family members who are killed by other family members meet their demise by knives than any other single weapon, but we would never consider banning knives from the household.

[johnnycakes]

Re: Guns in Jamaica - the right to bear arms?

Knives have uses other than killing people.

Handguns are ONLY for killing people.

Dr Dudd,
The United States is a violent country both in foreign affairs and domestically.
Add more guns to the mix and you get more killings.
It is preposterous to contend otherwise.

[lonewolf]

Re: Guns in Jamaica - the right to bear arms?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The answer is a society that has no reason to murder which is always tied to poverty and despair which abound in Jamaica.. </div></div>

It's a segment of society that is the problem. Why should all of society have to suffer because of a few?

[johnnycakes]

Re: Guns in Jamaica - the right to bear arms?

The point is, Jamaica is a society based in a capitalist type of economy which, at its very root, says that you have to have money to survive and do well.

Jamaica however is a poor country.
In a rich country there is so much money that even with the top 10% owning 80% of everything, there is still enough left so that all but say 10% in the richest social welfare states, 25% or so in the United States do fairly well compared to the Third World.
In a poor country there is less money. When the top 10% or 5% in those countries controls 80% of the wealth there is just not enough left to provide for education, health, basic services and to the point meaningful, living wage jobs for all who want them.

Give the people a way to live better and they'll do that.

Gangs, drugs, guns, violence are all ties into the failed economic system.

You're never going to break out of the violence, drugs, etc within the same economic system and you cannot change the economic system because everyone whom you are given to vote supports those two systems.

Corruption ? Totally tied to money

Drugs use and trade? Totally tied up with money or lack of money.

Violence? All based on money and or the power it brings.

Despair, no hope for the future? Based on the past and the present life of widespread and permanent poverty under capitalism?


Dudus ? Guns? Violence? Despair? Drugs?

They're only the symptoms of the disease and you cannot treat symptoms and expect a cure for the greatest plague known to humankind..


, for allJOe

[britisha]

Re: Guns in Jamaica - the right to bear arms?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Quodlibet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It is obvious to even the careless observer that Jamaica is not short of weapons, even though general possession is supposed to be illegal.

Lets discuss the opinion that &quot;IF HAVING A GUN BREAKS THE LAW, THEN ONLY LAWBREAKERS WILL HAVE THE GUNS&quot; </div></div>

Jamaica has a &quot;right to bear arms&quot; in it's Constitution? Which amendment?...wha yuh chrying fi seh?


...an how yuh get fram dis &quot;Guns in Jamaica - the right to bear arms&quot; to diss?

<span style="font-weight: bold">It is obvious to even the careless observer that Jamaica is not short of weapons, even though general possession is supposed to be illegal.

Lets discuss the opinion that &quot;IF HAVING A GUN BREAKS THE LAW, THEN ONLY LAWBREAKERS WILL HAVE THE GUNS&quot;</span>???

Yuh waan discussion outtah diss? *DUH*


mi surprise seh summuch fell fi dis tuh.

[jah_yout]

Re: Guns in Jamaica - the right to bear arms?

$150 u.s. for an AK-k7?

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[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Guns in Jamaica - the right to bear arms?

If fund were available This the majority of the African population
Their waters wouldn't be overfished.

And the Somalians wouldn't have to hijack ships on the high seas.

See how the powers That created the murder machine in jamaus trying go disarm them now???


Reason is that the get wise about the killing of eachother fir the benefit of the colonial masters.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">$150 u.s. for an AK-k7?

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</div></div>