Food for Thought : Dudus Conspiracy....

**barosa** · 07-20-2010, 05:14 PM

Re: Food for Thought : Dudus Conspiracy....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"the sad commentary is that we r to believe that the status quo was affected by the Dudus affair..it was not"

True, true
The indictment of Mr. Coke truly means little in the big picture.
Even were he to testify under oath that he works hand in glove with Mr Golding and have some evidence that would show this to be true and most of the Jamaican electorate believe it to be true, all that would happen is that P.M. Golding would lose the next election.

His replacement would be someone from the PNP or JLP and no better in his/her ability to change conditions in Jamaica.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Anyone elected seriously trying to make the necessary changes that would fix Jamaica would be sabotaged from within and from without.

IMO Jamaica's history is its future.</span>
</div></div>
<span style="font-style: italic">"Jamaica's history is its future"</span>... NO! Johnny, ~ I will not accept that because you are speaking of recent history. ~ <span style="font-weight: bold">In fact our "real history" speaks to the opposite of what is implied</span>... ~ `It's unfortunate that some of us here have given up on even the thought or belief, that Jamaica could wrestle herself out of the grip of those who are intent to destroy her by doing her in... Come On!, one and all, where has our collective desire to be free, independent, peaceful and loving to each other vanish to?? The lack of resolve however miniscule, is always present in any society. Lethargy should not be allowed to set in causing Jamaica to become a nation that has lost its backbone. I'm repeating below, my earlier paragrahph which ask a very important question...

It will be up to the Jamaican people to do what they must, to prevent any such re-surgence of the <span style="font-weight: bold">political ugliness</span> that came over us from the outset of our independece up to the present moment... The question is: <span style="font-weight: bold">Do we possess the "intestinal fortitude" to come together, unite as ONE despite our political affiliations, against all foes "real or imagined" to take back Jamaica?</span> The answer is either YES or NO depending on one's belief. My answer is YES!...
_________________________

Just like oil, the truth always float to the top.

**johnnycakes** · 07-20-2010, 06:03 PM

Re: Food for Thought : Dudus Conspiracy....

The two things that weigh against change in Jamaica are the government and the economic system.

You cannot change the economic system because the Jamaican people don't want a change. So you will continue to have the very few rich and the very many poor and all the societal ills that breeds.

In order to change the political/electoral system you have to elect a different kind of people. Different people are not allowed to stand for election by the two main parties and third parties, by and large, lack the means to get enough of their people elected to make a change.

All else is just talk and prayers that go nowhere.

Recent history goes back to independence. Before that the economic system was the same just the heads of government were different and I'd say, judging from what is happening in Jamaica right now, that you might be better off asking the Queen back.

Unite as one?
And do what against what foe?.

As the old comic strip character Pogo Possum used to say:
"We have met the enemy and it is us"

Take back Jamaica from whom?
The people who run the economy?
The people who run the government ?

It would take a revolution and Jamaicans are not revolutionary minded.

**franksterr** · 07-21-2010, 07:31 AM

Re: Food for Thought : Dudus Conspiracy....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am watching to see what Ghana does with its Oil finds, will it bring more to all, or plenty to few? </div></div>

The past is prologue.
Can you or anyone you know name the country that has used its oil wealth for the benefit of the country as a whole?
Okay, Venezuela but they're ruled by a crazy socialist who insists on sharing the wealth and who has cut poverty in half by spending that oil money instead of doing what he should with it; put it in A Swiss bank like everyone else who has oil. (Not sure about the Iranians and what they do with their oil money)
All the oil resources are in capitalist countries. The big oil companies make all the money paying a fraction of what they make in payments to the countries from which the oil is being extracted.

Ghana will be no different.

</div></div>
I expect Change.

Ghana and Afrika in General is maturing, The Ghanians were savy enough to recognize quite early as a people what Tsvangirai of Zimbabwe is, SADC under Mbeki stood up to the West with regards to Zimbabwe.

**franksterr** · 07-21-2010, 07:53 AM

Re: Food for Thought : Dudus Conspiracy....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here's an interesting article on Dudus, the CIA, Seaga, Golding that I just came across.
Perhaps it's all OLD news but I found the perspective quite different from a lot of the stuff I've read on the subject.

https://nacla.org/node/6661 </div></div>

Instead of war on poverty they got a war on drugs. So the police can bother me........
YouTube - changes with lyrics

The "war on drugs" comes to Jamaica US style, it failed in Columbia, and is Failing in Mexico...will it succeed in Jamaica, with U$73million a yr on primarily military aide....its going to be painfull. I hope our politician are successful where Mexico and Columbia failed - turn the US bloodlust off.
YouTube - Top Stories for April 16

In America the war on drugs is a war on black people, in which African Americans are fed in disproporitionately huge numbers into the Criminal Justice system or the prison industrial complex
YouTube - Modern Day Slavery: Racism and the Drug War
YouTube - Michelle Alexander on "Th...blindness"

Both the strategy and tactics of executing this war are brutal, and costly to the societies in which they are employed
YouTube - War on drugs and Mexico's demise

The truth be told...Just as the "<span style="font-weight: bold">war on terror</span>" is really a <span style="font-weight: bold">war on "Arab peoples"</span>, so the <span style="color: #FF0000">"war on drugs</span>" is really a war on "<span style="color: #FF0000">black peoples</span>". The "<span style="color: #3366FF">war on communism</span>" is really a "<span style="color: #3366FF">war on developing countries</span>"
YouTube - John Stockwell: The Third World War

See them fighting for power
But they know not the hour
<span style="color: #FF0000">So they bribing with their guns, spare-parts and money,</span>Trying to belittle our
Integrity now.
They say what we know
<span style="font-weight: bold">Is just what they teach us;
And we're so ignorant
'Cause every time they can reach us
Through political strategy
They keep us hungry
And when you gonna get some food
Your brother got to be your enemy</span>,

Ambush in the night,
All guns aiming at me;

YouTube - Ambush in the night - Bob Marley

**franksterr** · 07-21-2010, 08:25 AM

Re: Food for Thought : Dudus Conspiracy....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: barosa</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So, Ghana's oil wealth will go where the oil wealth of every capitalist country goes. <span style="font-weight: bold">There is no reason to suppose that that money will go into the public coffers and be used for the common good.</span>
Alternatively, the money could flow into the public coffers and from there, disappear and then mysteriously show up in a numbered Swiss bank account.</div></div>
JC, you are right as it relates to the comments above in bold... ~ However, if the likelyhood of Jamaica as an oil producer becomes the reality in the future, it's possible that your statement wouldn't be true and therefore not valid. I will say, that it will be up to our political leaders of the "near future and beyond" that they pay heed to the author's wish for them to stop the fighting, unite and work together for the common good of the Jamaican nation and its people... As stated in the article and as you know, Babylon's history in dealing with "third world nations" speaks for itself...
___________________________

Just like oil, the truth always float to the top.
</div></div>

Consider this, the below was said by one of our most prominent citizens, who turn down more than two invitations to the white house, to a class of UTech students.

"I am going to challenge you to watch this oil exploration, We are going to be insisting on it that if it is confirmed that Jamaica has commercial quantities of oil within our territorial waters, we are going to want the benefits of that oil managed in such a way to secure Jamaicas economc future.

Page not found | Jamaica Gleaner

http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20070223/lead/lead10.html

**johnnycakes** · 07-21-2010, 10:01 AM

Re: Food for Thought : Dudus Conspiracy....

".......We are going to be insisting on it......"

Yes, well WE are who?
If it is someone speaking generally for the people of Jamaica, then his words are meaningless given all other countries' experience with what happens to oil based wealth, all wealth for that matter in capitalist and/or colonial countries.

If he's a Jamaican I would wonder how he would get the Jamaican electorate, long in thrall to the power and propaganda of the United States as regards the good intentions of colonialist economics, to suddenly change their minds.

Even were the electorate to change THEIR minds, how do they then get the GOJ and the members of the pro status quo JLP and PNP to change THEIR minds and stand up to the United States?

Remember Manley's experience with attempting serious change ?

**franksterr** · 07-22-2010, 07:17 AM

Re: Food for Thought : Dudus Conspiracy....

johnnycakes".......We are going to be insisting on it......"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, well WE are who?</div></div>
The Government of Jamaica.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If it is someone speaking generally for the people of Jamaica, then his words are meaningless given all other countries' experience with what happens to oil based wealth, all wealth for that matter in capitalist and/or colonial countries.</div></div>
Here as the People of Jamaica
A Change must start somewhere....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If he's a Jamaican I would wonder how he would get the Jamaican electorate, long in thrall to the power and propaganda of the United States as regards the good intentions of colonialist economics, to suddenly change their minds.</div></div>
They have elected him to the highest office of the land.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Even were the electorate to change THEIR minds, how do they then get the GOJ and the members of the pro status quo JLP and PNP to change THEIR minds and stand up to the United States? </div></div>
He represents them all

Page not found | Jamaica Gleaner

http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20070223/lead/lead10.html

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Remember Manley's experience with attempting serious change ?</div></div>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0wx_-dOnfg

Yeah I remember Manley, Bogle dem hang with George William Gordon...It is sad but often times for change to come people must die

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEH7fBz4K00

Which fall stop you from learning to walk?...all the more reason to try again.

**johnnycakes** · 07-22-2010, 02:35 PM

Re: Food for Thought : Dudus Conspiracy....

Respect Franksterr,

But singing about revolution is not revolution. The historic past of Bogle is not prologue, it is the dead history of Jamaica.
The spirit of the Jamaican people of today bears little resemblance to the heroes of yesteryear.

The Empire rules. Jamaicans have shown that they will obey and have shown no interest in uniting and changing things or challenging the status quo.
They are very good Christians . They keep turning the other cheek.
Unite and change things?
To the contrary they are breaking further apart into not just PNP and JLP but into this gang or that gang's puppets.

Mind you Jamaica is not alone in this subservience and hopelessness. There are scores of poor countries where the people think the same way.

I've been watching the Empire for over forty years and have seen what it takes for a country to break free from its grip and Jamaica is not there........ yet.

t

**franksterr** · 07-22-2010, 04:00 PM

Re: Food for Thought : Dudus Conspiracy....

johnnycakes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But singing about revolution is not revolution. The historic past of Bogle is not prologue, it is the dead history of Jamaica.
The spirit of the Jamaican people of today bears little resemblance to the heroes of yesteryear.

The Empire rules. Jamaicans have shown that they will obey and have shown no interest in uniting and changing things or challenging the status quo.
They are very good Christians . They keep turning the other cheek.
Unite and change things?
To the contrary they are breaking further apart into not just PNP and JLP but into this gang or that gang's puppets.

Mind you Jamaica is not alone in this subservience and hopelessness. There are scores of poor countries where the people think the same way.

I've been watching the Empire for over forty years and have seen what it takes for a country to break free from its grip and Jamaica is not there........ yet.

t

</div></div>

You know during Apartheid, all of Bob Marley songs were banned in S.Afrika, nearly ever military army or warriors have their songs, songs are not to be underestimated in how they affect people and effect change in a society.

Is the same people, and the history is alive in them, This recent skirmish saw our leaders running for cover, but that does not mean the battle is lost. Dudus was used to derail Bruce's attempt to stand up, as he and most politicians in the country is tainted with criminality and so the US propaganda machine would make mince meat(Noriega) of them in the court of international opinion, plus Dudus is no Rosa Parks/Castro around which to rally Jamaicans.

Better has come and still better coming.
Those heroes of yesteryear, still live in us...we are there, what is needed is the catalyst.
The Empire is crumbling, after 4yrs of batterying from Germany, Brittania has handed imperial powers over to the US. The Arabs has exposed a serious flaw in the US economics - Empires live and die by there economy.

As to the Gangs the politicains has seen how they can be used to destroy them, and so I have no doubt that their influence will wane continuously in the coming decade.

**johnnycakes** · 07-22-2010, 09:10 PM

Re: Food for Thought : Dudus Conspiracy....

Franksterr,

I would say that it is the revolutionary spirit that creates revolutionary songs and not revolutionary songs that create revolutionary spirit.

The Dudus affair means little in the empire/ subservient Jamaica thing.
It is a simple criminal matter and has no effect on U.S hegemony on e way or the other.
In fact, I would say P.M. Golding's refusal to hand Dudus over immediately might have been a courageous thing for him to do in light of the power of the United States if it weren't for the nagging thought that he feared that Dudus, safely in the USA would talk about how close he worked with the GOJ and implicate him.

No, the times are very much different from the days of Jamaica's heroes .
The American Empire is far more powerful than was the British Empire.
It doesn't need to maintain garrisons in every country as the British did.
It can do what it needs to do with threats having shown the world in the past 50 years that Uncle Sam is the baddest and most dangerous guy on the planet.

I do not know what it would take to rekindle a revolutionary spark in the Jamaican people.

**franksterr** · 07-26-2010, 01:08 PM

Re: Food for Thought : Dudus Conspiracy....

johnnycakes

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would say that it is the revolutionary spirit that creates revolutionary songs and not revolutionary songs that create revolutionary spirit.</div></div>

Will not argue with that, that revolutionary spirits birth revolutionary songs. Must add that revolutionary songs birth revolutionary spirit where none existed before - it is infectious.

So if we are making revolutionary songs, then it follows using your logic that we Jamaicans still have the revolutionary spirit?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Dudus affair means little in the empire/ subservient Jamaica thing.
It is a simple criminal matter and has no effect on U.S hegemony on e way or the other.
In fact, I would say P.M. Golding's refusal to hand Dudus over immediately might have been a courageous thing for him to do in light of the power of the United States if it weren't for the nagging thought that he feared that Dudus, safely in the USA would talk about how close he worked with the GOJ and implicate him.</div></div>

The "dudus affair" was a demonstration to the Jamaica ruling elite how easy it is to destabilize our country. So any thought of standing up will be dealt with forthwith.
You cannot use a Known criminal as a pretext to fight for your sovereign rights, it will not garner any support or sympathy in the court of international opinion.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No, the times are very much different from the days of Jamaica's heroes .
The American Empire is far more powerful than was the British Empire.</div></div>
The US rise to the top was not a hard fought and won battle like that of Britain, but rather they were left standing while the other powers destroyed themselves...
How many wars has the US won since WWII?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It doesn't need to maintain garrisons in every country as the British did.
It can do what it needs to do with threats having shown the world in the past 50 years that Uncle Sam is the baddest and most dangerous guy on the planet.</div></div>

TRUE
S.Korea and Iran remains defiant
The dust has not settled in Iraq and Afghanistan.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I do not know what it would take to rekindle a revolutionary spark in the Jamaican people. </div></div>

I am still looking for it

Nuff respect

[/quote]

Food for Thought : Dudus Conspiracy....

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