Stand your ground-attacker gets it

[remo]

Re: Stand your ground-attacker gets it

[ QUOTE ]

Deadly bus ride!

BY: FABIAN LEDGISTER, Staff Reporter

WHAT SANDRA BROWN* thought would be a quiet and pleasant bus ride home, quickly became the scene of a deadly gunbattle between robbers and a licensed firearm holder.

The 31-year-old resident of Waltham Park says she had just left a relative's house in Duhaney Park, oblivious that two armed men were among the commuters aboard the bus.

"All last night (Saturday) mi dream bout it ... mi wish mi did follow mi min' an sleep a mi bredda yard," said the eyewitness to the dramatic event.

Police say about 10:15 p.m., two men boarded a coaster bus at Duhaney Park, and while en-route began robbing passengers. Upon reaching the intersection of Waltham Park Road and Molynes Road, a licensed firearm holder who was a passenger, challenged the men and a gun battle ensued.

"The man dem pull out handgun an start rob people down di line. Little bit a people did on di bus an I was near di back ... when di man dem a come down, a man up a front pull out a gun an start shoot di tief dem," the eyewitness remembered.

The frightened mother of three says she began to pray, as she thought she was going to die, as shots rang out from both the weapons of the robbers who were a few metres from her, and the licensed firearm holder.

"Mi jus duck down inna mi seat, an start pray ... one a di man dem drop right side a mi," the eyewitness said.

In the aftermath, both gunmen lay dead, and the conductor as well as the driver were shot and injured. The licensed firearm holder was not injured. The police were summoned and the gunmen were taken to hospital, where they were pronounced dead. The conductor was admitted in stable condition, and the driver was treated and released.

Two firearms, a Glock 26 pistol, serial number DLW365 with 13 rounds, and a Berretta 9mm pistol, with three rounds were also recovered in the incident. The robbers were still unidentified, up to press time.

Although the bravery of the licensed firearm holder possibly saved her from physical injury, Sandra Brownsays she is considering seeking psychological help, as the incident has left her scarred emotionally.

"Where mi live gunshot bus yes, but a di first man dead right side a mi. Mi caa sleep or eat since Friday, and mi start have nightmare ... mi wa guh doctor (psychiatrist) but di money nuh deh deh," lamented the emotionally scarred eyewitness.

*Name changed to protect her identity

Deadly bus ride!

[/ QUOTE ]

A mi a di only one who think this type of behaviour on a public transportation vehicle is madness?

[Morpheous]

Re: Stand your ground-attacker gets it

[ QUOTE ]
"The man dem pull out handgun an start rob people down di line. Little bit a people did on di bus an I was near di back ... when di man dem a come down, a man up a front pull out a gun an start shoot di tief dem," the eyewitness remembered.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is crazy and irresponsible. Innocent passengers could have been killed - However it sounds like the heat of the moment thing. It's because he had a gun on him why he felt to himself he MUST act. So the gunmen robbing people down the line and when they reach down the back, he pulled his gun and start a gun battle. It means he was already robbed - did he feel his life was threatened and that of the passengers? Had he let the robbers move down the line would they have gotten off the bus without shooting the passengers?

This robbery sounds suspicious anway. Wouldn't it be easier to rob the conductor since he would have the jackpot - (the story didn't mention if the conductor got robbed too). I thought thieves (like those) were opportunists who go for quicker and easier targets rather than long and difficult methods. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

If I were the passengers on that bus at the time of the robbery I wouldn't go back on that particular bus again. Furthermore the police should question the driver and conductor or better yet observe that bus especially late evenings and nights.

Sound like some kinda scheme is running. I hope I am wrong.

[Morpheous]

Re: Stand your ground-attacker gets it

[ QUOTE ]
The solution to this violencemania is for people to be allowed to legally defend their rothts as citizens in a civilized country.
Not just those 2 shades lighter,but all shades have equal rights.
i am sure if idiots like those know that the majority of jamaicans has the abillity to defend their rights,they would not have tried a stunt as that.

[/ QUOTE ]
While I agree with you 100% there are concerns if so much guns are laying around peoples houses and the methods used to store them securely away from children etc. Growing up in Kingston, many of my friends knew exactly where their dad's gun(s) were including myself. They sneaked them out and show them to each other when we visit each other's houses. "Look my fadah gun big", "Check dis new one mi fadah just buy wha day". "Feel di weight a dah one yah". etc.

Some used to fire dem too in the air. A few crazy heads used to point it at a friend and press the trigger -(knowing it was empty).

Other guys I saw brought brought the gun to school phets and show it to others fi get "respect". It sounds crazy in hindsight but as a teenager it was all seen as being "cool" and being part of the "cool" crowd.

Plus, guns were dusted off, replaced exactly as found without fathers knowing they left the house or storage area. Even though in some cases they were under lock and key didn't stop some from gettinmg around that flimsey security.

[Sinco01]

Re: Stand your ground-attacker gets it

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The solution to this violencemania is for people to be allowed to legally defend their rothts as citizens in a civilized country.
Not just those 2 shades lighter,but all shades have equal rights.
i am sure if idiots like those know that the majority of jamaicans has the abillity to defend their rights,they would not have tried a stunt as that.

[/ QUOTE ]
While I agree with you 100% there are concerns if so much guns are laying around peoples houses and the methods used to store them securely away from children etc. Growing up in Kingston, many of my friends knew exactly where their dad's gun(s) were including myself. They sneaked them out and show them to each other when we visit each other's houses. "Look my fadah gun big", "Check dis new one mi fadah just buy wha day". "Feel di weight a dah one yah". etc.

Some used to fire dem too in the air.

A few crazy heads used to point it at a friend and press the trigger -(knowing it was empty).

Other guys I saw brought brought the gun to school phets and show it to others fi get "respect". It sounds crazy in hindsight but as a teenager it was all seen as being "cool" and being part of the "cool" crowd.

Plus, guns were dusted off, replaced exactly as found without fathers knowing they left the house or storage area. Even though in some cases they were under lock and key didn't stop some from gettinmg around that flimsey security.

[/ QUOTE ]

dat is waht mi neva eena star ... mi have one cousin who use to play wid him fadda gun like dat ... mi haffi ah jump offa mi bed and duck bakka dressa because mi nuh kno if de gun empty or not ... [img]/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]
even doah him ah tell mi seh cool man it empty ... mi nuh kno cause uh nuh mi clean ie
afta mi an him get eena big fight bout dat an mi threaten him .. im stop .. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Stand your ground-attacker gets it

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Deadly bus ride!

BY: FABIAN LEDGISTER, Staff Reporter

WHAT SANDRA BROWN* thought would be a quiet and pleasant bus ride home, quickly became the scene of a deadly gunbattle between robbers and a licensed firearm holder.

The 31-year-old resident of Waltham Park says she had just left a relative's house in Duhaney Park, oblivious that two armed men were among the commuters aboard the bus.

"All last night (Saturday) mi dream bout it ... mi wish mi did follow mi min' an sleep a mi bredda yard," said the eyewitness to the dramatic event.

Police say about 10:15 p.m., two men boarded a coaster bus at Duhaney Park, and while en-route began robbing passengers. Upon reaching the intersection of Waltham Park Road and Molynes Road, a licensed firearm holder who was a passenger, challenged the men and a gun battle ensued.

"The man dem pull out handgun an start rob people down di line. Little bit a people did on di bus an I was near di back ... when di man dem a come down, a man up a front pull out a gun an start shoot di tief dem," the eyewitness remembered.

The frightened mother of three says she began to pray, as she thought she was going to die, as shots rang out from both the weapons of the robbers who were a few metres from her, and the licensed firearm holder.

"Mi jus duck down inna mi seat, an start pray ... one a di man dem drop right side a mi," the eyewitness said.

In the aftermath, both gunmen lay dead, and the conductor as well as the driver were shot and injured. The licensed firearm holder was not injured. The police were summoned and the gunmen were taken to hospital, where they were pronounced dead. The conductor was admitted in stable condition, and the driver was treated and released.

Two firearms, a Glock 26 pistol, serial number DLW365 with 13 rounds, and a Berretta 9mm pistol, with three rounds were also recovered in the incident. The robbers were still unidentified, up to press time.

Although the bravery of the licensed firearm holder possibly saved her from physical injury, Sandra Brownsays she is considering seeking psychological help, as the incident has left her scarred emotionally.

"Where mi live gunshot bus yes, but a di first man dead right side a mi. Mi caa sleep or eat since Friday, and mi start have nightmare ... mi wa guh doctor (psychiatrist) but di money nuh deh deh," lamented the emotionally scarred eyewitness.

*Name changed to protect her identity

Deadly bus ride!

[/ QUOTE ]

A mi a di only one who think this type of behaviour on a public transportation vehicle is madness?

[/ QUOTE ]

you think if any fool is stupid enough to do such a thuing in any US city,the police wiuld not visit with the same level of vengeance with their glocks blazing??
think again!! the only reason why it does not happen is that they fools in th developed countries are not so fool as to risk that. As soon as that happen often enough,the madness of having to suffer the risk of loosing your life at the hands of some hungry and half crazy gundelario,will stop,creating such situations. What would look less mad,the criminals rob the people and then kill the lisenced firearm holder, ( you think he would be left alive?)driver and conductor, to remove all witnesses??
Sometimes it takes madness to create a civilized society.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Stand your ground-attacker gets it

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The solution to this violencemania is for people to be allowed to legally defend their rothts as citizens in a civilized country.
Not just those 2 shades lighter,but all shades have equal rights.
i am sure if idiots like those know that the majority of jamaicans has the abillity to defend their rights,they would not have tried a stunt as that.

[/ QUOTE ]
While I agree with you 100% there are concerns if so much guns are laying around peoples houses and the methods used to store them securely away from children etc. Growing up in Kingston, many of my friends knew exactly where their dad's gun(s) were including myself. They sneaked them out and show them to each other when we visit each other's houses. "Look my fadah gun big", "Check dis new one mi fadah just buy wha day". "Feel di weight a dah one yah". etc.

Some used to fire dem too in the air. A few crazy heads used to point it at a friend and press the trigger -(knowing it was empty).

Other guys I saw brought brought the gun to school phets and show it to others fi get "respect". It sounds crazy in hindsight but as a teenager it was all seen as being "cool" and being part of the "cool" crowd.

Plus, guns were dusted off, replaced exactly as found without fathers knowing they left the house or storage area. Even though in some cases they were under lock and key didn't stop some from gettinmg around that flimsey security.

[/ QUOTE ]
Every usefull tool has some inherrent danger to it. water still kill much more people than guns outside of a war,yet I don't here any one stating how many people will die from it,as a reason why we sould should not hav eit available freely.

[Morpheous]

Re: Stand your ground-attacker gets it

[ QUOTE ]
Every usefull tool has some inherrent danger to it. water still kill much more people than guns outside of a war,yet I don't here any one stating how many people will die from it,as a reason why we sould should not hav eit available freely.

[/ QUOTE ]
I am sure stats are available that shows more people get killed by crossing the road than water too... The intentions and purpose of water can't be compared with the intentions and purpose of a GUN!!

I am not against people having a gun LEGALLY. I am "CONCERNED" about the profusion of guns in households.

Question:
Two men approach you, one threaten to kill you by drowning with a bucket a water the other threaten to shoot you dead with his gun. How you fancy the odds and your chances of survival. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/70456-eyebrows.gif[/img]

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Stand your ground-attacker gets it

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Every usefull tool has some inherrent danger to it. water still kill much more people than guns outside of a war,yet I don't here any one stating how many people will die from it,as a reason why we sould should not hav eit available freely.

[/ QUOTE ]
I am sure stats are available that shows more people get killed by crossing the road than water too... The intentions and purpose of water can't be compared with the intentions and purpose of a GUN!!

I am not against people having a gun LEGALLY. I am "CONCERNED" about the profusion of guns in households.

Question:
Two men approach you, one threaten to kill you by drowning with a bucket a water the other threaten to shoot you dead with his gun. How you fancy the odds and your chances of survival. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/70456-eyebrows.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
You not making much sence to me,sorry.
You may think that guns were made specifically to kill people. I believe that they are made to be used a a deterrent to people who would like to har others. Do you thinkj that the police carry guns specially to kill people/
What is the difference with when the policew has it and when a law abiding ctitzen has it?
What if that law abiding peerson has just left the police force for private employment?
What do you mean when you state that you are not against legal guns,but in th esame post,you oppose the use of them as a deterrent?

[Morpheous]

Re: Stand your ground-attacker gets it

[ QUOTE ]
You not making much sence to me,sorry.
You may think that guns were made specifically to kill people. I believe that they are made to be used a a deterrent to people who would like to har others. Do you thinkj that the police carry guns specially to kill people/
What is the difference with when the policew has it and when a law abiding ctitzen has it?
What if that law abiding peerson has just left the police force for private employment?
What do you mean when you state that you are not against legal guns,but in th esame post,you oppose the use of them as a deterrent?

[/ QUOTE ]
I have no OBJECTIONS in people obtaining guns LEGALLY, a whah wrang wid yuh doc LOL [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img]

Here's your "deterrent" - take your pick: [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
Pick 1
Pick 2
Pick 3
Pick 4

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Stand your ground-attacker gets it


Wed Jul 5, 2006
Two gunmen killed in brazen robbery attempt

Two alleged gunmen are dead while another is on the run following a robbery attempt at a policeman's house in Clarendon last night.

The incident occurred shortly after 9 o'clock in Four Paths.

Reports reaching RJR News are that the three gunmen attempted to invade the policeman's house. However, they were challenged by the policeman who opened fire at them.

Two of the gunmen were shot. Their accomplice managed to escape.

One of the dead men has been identified as Oneil Markland of Western Park in Clarendon.

Two gunmen killed in brazen robbery attempt

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Stand your ground-attacker gets it


Fri Sep 8, 2006
Gunman dies in brazen attack at Holy Childhood High and Prep schools

The normally tranquil atmosphere at the Holy Childhood High and Prep schools in Half Way Tree, St. Andrew was shattered Friday afternoon when a lone gunman tried to rob a parent who was waiting for his child.

Parents about to pick up their children from school, students and staff were thrown into a panic around two thirty Friday afternoon as gun shots rang out on the premises, close to the entrance of the school.

Children ran screaming as teachers tried to get them to safety.

A teacher at the school described the chaos.

It is reported that a single gunman walked up to a Mitsubishi pick-up parked close to the ground floor of the prep school and opened fire.

The daughter of one of the three men inside the cab of the pick-up, had just come through the school gates and was headed for the vehicle when the shooting started.

She reportedly ran screaming back inside.

Outside the shooting ensued as one of the occupants, a licensed firearm holder, traded shots with the gunman.

One of the other men inside the pick-up tried to flee the vehicle but was shot in the leg just as he opened the door.

By the time it was all over, the gunman lay dead at the side of the pick-up.

The police who were quick on the scene hurriedly set up their cordon and asked the traumatised students to wait for their parents on the other side of the compound.

Later it was discovered that the men in the pickup had just collected a payroll from the bank.

It is believed that they were trailed by at least three men to the school.

Dazed parents hustled their children past the body trying to shield them from the horrific sight.

http://www.radiojamaica.com/news/story.php?category=2&story=28061

<font color="purple">See earlier lyrics on matters of bearing arms:</font>

Jamaicans should have easier access to guns

http://www.jamaicans.com/forums/showflat...28#Post19559047

Rifle Association shoots down Kidd-Deans' call to

http://www.jamaicans.com/forums/showflat...part=1&amp;vc=1

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Stand your ground-attacker gets it


Sun Sep 24, 2006
Alleged kidnappers shot in St. Ann

Two alleged kidnappers are dead following a confrontation with a licensed firearm holder along the main road from Ocho Rios to Moneague in St. Ann Saturday night.
According to reports, two men were seen forcing a woman and a child into a vehicle in Ocho Rios shortly after 10:00 Saturday night.

The police say eyewitnesses chased the vehicle which was later spotted in the community of Swanzie near Walkers Wood.

The vehicle in which the kidnappers were travelling was forced off the road and crashed into a wall by the side of the road.

The alleged kidnappers alighted from the car, one with a gun and the other with a knife.

A licensed firearm holder who stopped to investigate - was attacked by the kidnappers, the licensed firearm holder opened fire, hitting both men.

The men along with the woman and child were taken to the St. Ann's Bay hospital.

The alleged kidnappers were pronounced dead and the woman and child treated and released for minor injuries received in the accident.

The police, who recovered $30,000, from the vehicle have not yet released the identities of the men.

http://www.radiojamaica.com/news/story.php?category=2&amp;story=28479

[RichD]

Re: Stand your ground-attacker gets it

[ QUOTE ]

Sun Sep 24, 2006
Alleged kidnappers shot in St. Ann

Two alleged kidnappers are dead following a confrontation with a licensed firearm holder along the main road from Ocho Rios to Moneague in St. Ann Saturday night.
According to reports, two men were seen forcing a woman and a child into a vehicle in Ocho Rios shortly after 10:00 Saturday night.

The police say eyewitnesses chased the vehicle which was later spotted in the community of Swanzie near Walkers Wood.

The vehicle in which the kidnappers were travelling was forced off the road and crashed into a wall by the side of the road.

The alleged kidnappers alighted from the car, one with a gun and the other with a knife.

A licensed firearm holder who stopped to investigate - was attacked by the kidnappers, the licensed firearm holder opened fire, hitting both men.

The men along with the woman and child were taken to the St. Ann's Bay hospital.

The alleged kidnappers were pronounced dead and the woman and child treated and released for minor injuries received in the accident.

The police, who recovered $30,000, from the vehicle have not yet released the identities of the men.

http://www.radiojamaica.com/news/story.php?category=2&amp;story=28479

[/ QUOTE ]

yeh right...

the gleaner version [ QUOTE ]
Kidnappers killed after vehicle chase
published: Monday | September 25, 2006

Ross Sheil, Staff Reporter


While police were just over a week ago touting the training in the United States of two of its officers as hostage negotiators, one man in St. Ann resorted to more direct methods, crashing his car into kidnappers to rescue his 'baby mother' and nine-year-old daughter late Saturday night.

By Sunday morning, Errol Brown had freed the woman and his daughter and both kidnappers were dead following the crash near Fern Gully in St. Ann.

According to Claremont police, the kidnappers had earlier robbed a bar in Golden Grove of cash and goods before the gunpoint robbery and kidnap of Mr. Brown's child and her mother from their home in Dunnsville.

When The Gleaner chanced upon the scene shortly after midnight, the body of one of the kidnappers was curled up in a police lorry while onlookers stood and watched as the other kidnapper lay still breathing on the road.

Within minutes a car containing the clearly distressed mother and daughter had sped off escorted by police. Police stood over the kidnapper still on the road, eventually bundling him on top of his accomplice in the back of the lorrybefore driving them away.

Mr. Brown, bloodied and shaken, claimed neighbours had telephoned to alert him of the kidnapping and that he immediately left his home in nearby Constant Gardens in an attempt to head off the kidnappers.

Quick decision

He said that after spotting the older victim's car, which the kidnappers had also stolen, he took a decision to use his own vehicle, a Toyota Caldina station wagon, to ram the stolen Toyota Corolla station wagon off the road.

"I see it's her car and I follow it and trail it for about two miles through Colgate and come out to Swansea. Then they start pick up speed and I decide to ram the car into them and we do exactly so," he claimed matter-of-factly about the crash.

With both kidnappers attempting to escape, Mr. Brown claimed that, with assistance from passersby, he attacked the men. This was confirmed by witnesses The Gleaner spoke with on the scene. Contrary to other accounts, the Ocho Rios CIB reported that a licensed firearm holder had shot the men, who were both pronounced dead on arrival at hospital.




[/ QUOTE ]

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Stand your ground-attacker gets it

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Sun Sep 24, 2006
Alleged kidnappers shot in St. Ann

Two alleged kidnappers are dead following a confrontation with a licensed firearm holder along the main road from Ocho Rios to Moneague in St. Ann Saturday night.
According to reports, two men were seen forcing a woman and a child into a vehicle in Ocho Rios shortly after 10:00 Saturday night.

The police say eyewitnesses chased the vehicle which was later spotted in the community of Swanzie near Walkers Wood.

The vehicle in which the kidnappers were travelling was forced off the road and crashed into a wall by the side of the road.

The alleged kidnappers alighted from the car, one with a gun and the other with a knife.

A licensed firearm holder who stopped to investigate - was attacked by the kidnappers, the licensed firearm holder opened fire, hitting both men.

The men along with the woman and child were taken to the St. Ann's Bay hospital.

The alleged kidnappers were pronounced dead and the woman and child treated and released for minor injuries received in the accident.

The police, who recovered $30,000, from the vehicle have not yet released the identities of the men.

http://www.radiojamaica.com/news/story.php?category=2&amp;story=28479

[/ QUOTE ]

yeh right...

the gleaner version [ QUOTE ]
Kidnappers killed after vehicle chase
published: Monday | September 25, 2006

Ross Sheil, Staff Reporter


While police were just over a week ago touting the training in the United States of two of its officers as hostage negotiators, one man in St. Ann resorted to more direct methods, crashing his car into kidnappers to rescue his 'baby mother' and nine-year-old daughter late Saturday night.

By Sunday morning, Errol Brown had freed the woman and his daughter and both kidnappers were dead following the crash near Fern Gully in St. Ann.

According to Claremont police, the kidnappers had earlier robbed a bar in Golden Grove of cash and goods before the gunpoint robbery and kidnap of Mr. Brown's child and her mother from their home in Dunnsville.

When The Gleaner chanced upon the scene shortly after midnight, the body of one of the kidnappers was curled up in a police lorry while onlookers stood and watched as the other kidnapper lay still breathing on the road.

Within minutes a car containing the clearly distressed mother and daughter had sped off escorted by police. Police stood over the kidnapper still on the road, eventually bundling him on top of his accomplice in the back of the lorrybefore driving them away.

Mr. Brown, bloodied and shaken, claimed neighbours had telephoned to alert him of the kidnapping and that he immediately left his home in nearby Constant Gardens in an attempt to head off the kidnappers.

Quick decision

He said that after spotting the older victim's car, which the kidnappers had also stolen, he took a decision to use his own vehicle, a Toyota Caldina station wagon, to ram the stolen Toyota Corolla station wagon off the road.

"I see it's her car and I follow it and trail it for about two miles through Colgate and come out to Swansea. Then they start pick up speed and I decide to ram the car into them and we do exactly so," he claimed matter-of-factly about the crash.

With both kidnappers attempting to escape, Mr. Brown claimed that, with assistance from passersby, he attacked the men. This was confirmed by witnesses The Gleaner spoke with on the scene. Contrary to other accounts, the Ocho Rios CIB reported that a licensed firearm holder had shot the men, who were both pronounced dead on arrival at hospital.




[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Well while the Gleaner account is likely more factual and what more spicer, the story only serve to illustrate the fact that an armed citizen is a threat to cowardly lawbreakers.
In this instance the weapon of choice was a Toyota Caldina.
What if this man was not armed with said Toyota Caldina motor car?

The other questions to consider is:
<ul type="square">were the men shot?[*]so by whom?[*]did the help that the victims’ husband/father get include that of armed bystanders?[*]did the police pump a few complimentary bullets into the dead/dying men and to cover their derrière they made up the licensed citizen story?[/list]

[RichD]

Re: Stand your ground-attacker gets it

[ QUOTE ]
The other questions to consider is:
<ul type="square">were the men shot?[*]so by whom?[*]did the help that the victims’ husband/father get include that of armed bystanders?[*]did the police pump a few complimentary bullets into the dead/dying men and to cover their derrière they made up the licensed citizen story?[/list]

[/ QUOTE ]

that is what im getting at...i suspect the latter is the case