Portia's budget speech

[niceniss]

Re: Portia's budget speech

[ QUOTE ]
And that comes fram a contemporary of the missing Fledgst...



[/ QUOTE ]
where is he these days? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/70402-thinking.gif[/img]

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Portia's budget speech

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

First let me disabuse you of your erroneous positions. It was not a letter to the editor. It was an article on the financial collapse of the 90s that was published in two parts on November 29 and 30/Dec 1, 2005 in the Business Section of the Gleaner. The writer was quoting from a Cabinet Document table by Hugh Small then Minister of Finance.



[/ QUOTE ]

what years did Small serve as finance minister?...was he after Bell and prior to the 1980 election loss?

[/ QUOTE ]

Right after Eric Bell, he was driven out of the party because he supported Portia in her first bid as Comrade Leader. He was Finance Minister twice.

I did make a slight mistake above the article I think appeared in the dates I mentioned except it was either 2003 or 2004 but certainly before 2005.

[ackeepod]

Re: Portia's budget speech

mek Portia gwaan wid dis suddenly found christianity ..she only a fool di fool dem ..she was there and she pawt of the whole shebang... she run wid and mix up wid di don dem same like the rest ..and she using the church as pappyshow ..
I remember in 2004 an article in the newspaper wid pictures showing her arriving at a conference wid Skeng Don and a motorcade of dons (criminals)

Quote..
Simpson Miller, the Member of Parliament for South West St Andrew, will be up against National Security Minister Dr Peter Phillips; Finance Minister Dr Omar Davies and Paul Burke, the former chairman of Region Three, for the top PNP job. Burke, however, has made it clear that he has no interest in becoming prime minister.

Party chairman Robert Pickersgill and vice-president Karl Blythe have also expressed interest in the leadership, but have not yet declared their candidacy.

On Sunday, Simpson Miller said her major concern was the party's unity, and she was confident of her chances to win the PNP presidency.Quote :

".The woman is fearless. The woman is safe. The woman is secured. The woman don't have nothing to worry about. The only thing the woman has to worry about is the unity of the party, to get over this, because when we are the best, there is no need for us to worry about the rest," she said to loud applause.

The dramatic arrival of Manchester businessman Kenneth "Skeng Don" Black drew stares from party supporters at the conference. Black's convoy of about 15 vehicles included BMW X5s, Mercedes Benzes, Escalades, Pajeros and motorcycles and at least one Hummer.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Portia's budget speech

[ QUOTE ]
mek Portia gwaan wid dis suddenly found christianity ..she only a fool di fool dem ..she was there and she pawt of the whole shebang... she run wid and mix up wid di don dem same like the rest ..and she using the church as pappyshow ..
I remember in 2004 an article in the newspaper wid pictures showing her arriving at a conference wid Skeng Don and a motorcade of dons (criminals)

Quote..
Simpson Miller, the Member of Parliament for South West St Andrew, will be up against National Security Minister Dr Peter Phillips; Finance Minister Dr Omar Davies and Paul Burke, the former chairman of Region Three, for the top PNP job. Burke, however, has made it clear that he has no interest in becoming prime minister.

Party chairman Robert Pickersgill and vice-president Karl Blythe have also expressed interest in the leadership, but have not yet declared their candidacy.

On Sunday, Simpson Miller said her major concern was the party's unity, and she was confident of her chances to win the PNP presidency.Quote :

".The woman is fearless. The woman is safe. The woman is secured. The woman don't have nothing to worry about. The only thing the woman has to worry about is the unity of the party, to get over this, because when we are the best, there is no need for us to worry about the rest," she said to loud applause.

The dramatic arrival of Manchester businessman Kenneth "Skeng Don" Black drew stares from party supporters at the conference. Black's convoy of about 15 vehicles included BMW X5s, Mercedes Benzes, Escalades, Pajeros and motorcycles and at least one Hummer.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wonder god wrote that?

[johnnycakes]

Re: Portia's budget speech

My point about P.M. Simpson's avoidance of the debt problem which is the elephant in the room if you're discussing the national budget is that neither the PNP or the JLP the twin parties of capitalism and the faithful servants of Washington's whims have a cure for the back-breaking debt problem.
Jamaica's situation is no different from that of the United Snakes which is run by the two parties which are run by the monied elite of the country for their benefit and to the detriment of the poor and working people.

Capitalism, especially as practiced in cut-throat late 20th century U.S fashion, simply does not work in the resource poor Third World.

The JLP and the PNP (despite it's more left positions and wings) would never give up the capitalism which so enriches them and the few at the top and immiserates so many at the bottom for a fairer and more Christian socialist economy which is the only practical alternative for the Third World.
Those who criticise Portia Simpson are fully justified in declaring her falsity and hypocrisy.
Those who prescribe a JLP cure for the general malaise are perhaps only fooling themselves.
Continuing support for either or both of the parties of the rich is a fool's game unless, of course, if you're rich and then the status quo is just fine and in that case either one will do nicely.

But then, I only have history to prove my case.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Portia's budget speech

[ QUOTE ]
My point about P.M. Simpson's avoidance of the debt problem which is the elephant in the room if you're discussing the national budget is that neither the PNP or the JLP the twin parties of capitalism and the faithful servants of Washington's whims have a cure for the back-breaking debt problem.
Jamaica's situation is no different from that of the United Snakes which is run by the two parties which are run by the monied elite of the country for their benefit and to the detriment of the poor and working people.

Capitalism, especially as practiced in cut-throat late 20th century U.S fashion, simply does not work in the resource poor Third World.

The JLP and the PNP (despite it's more left positions and wings) would never give up the capitalism which so enriches them and the few at the top and immiserates so many at the bottom for a fairer and more Christian socialist economy which is the only practical alternative for the Third World.
Those who criticise Portia Simpson are fully justified in declaring her falsity and hypocrisy.
Those who prescribe a JLP cure for the general malaise are perhaps only fooling themselves.
Continuing support for either or both of the parties of the rich is a fool's game unless, of course, if you're rich and then the status quo is just fine and in that case either one will do nicely.

But then, I only have history to prove my case.

[/ QUOTE ]

What case is that?
The JLP is not in power the PNP has been in power for 17 straight years in that time Jamaica has never shown in any or very minimal growth, what has the JLP and Capitalism have to do with this?

Portia's speech is Portia's speech, she is the Prime Minister of Jamaica, and if she fails it has to be on her head not the Opposition.

[johnnycakes]

Re: Portia's budget speech

Tuff Gong,
My point is and was that the problems of Jamaica are linked directly to the economic system under which it operates.
It matters not at all whether the PNP or the JLP are in power as the outcome is always the same: stagnant growth, increasing and or constant debt, corruption, crumbling infrastructure, lack of economic and educational opportunity for the poor, inadequate healthcare and a lack of a social safety net.
The situation is much the same for the poor even in the wealthiest of capitalist countries if in a smaller overall percentage.

In any country, there is just so much money -goods and services- to go around and if a disproportionate share goes to those few at the top, nothing is left for those many at the bottom.
A perfect analogy is the lifeboat with twenty people in it.
One person has more food and water and the other necessities for survival than he /she needs while the 19 others barely cling to life.

It makes no sense in a humane Christian sense for this to exist in that lifeboat at sea or in a country with three or 300 million people.

In the world today, there is enough of everything to go around so that every man, woman and child could life a good life but not when the distribution of those goods and services are dictated by an economic policy that always places profits above human need and the disproportionate share of wealth in the hands of a relative few.

The JLP and the PNP are wed to a capitalist economy. They would never consider the humane alternative. They are, in fact, proscribed from considering the humane alternative by the United States.

To answer your question, the PNP, JLP and capitalism have evrything to do with the sad state of affairs in Jamaica.
As you said the PNP has been in power for many years and has done nothing to rememdy the problems of Jamaica. When Mr Seaga was in power, he also could do and did do nothing.

They cannot offer solutions because they are the problem; both of them.
To vote in one in place of the other and expect any serious change is foolishness.
The answer to Jamaica's problems, to any Third World countries' problems is not a change in party when each basically supports the same unworkable economic system: an unfair and inhumane economic system that lies at the heart of Jamaica's malaise.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Portia's budget speech

[ QUOTE ]
Tuff Gong,
My point is and was that the problems of Jamaica are linked directly to the economic system under which it operates.

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't know what you are talking about.

[ QUOTE ]
As you said the PNP has been in power for many years and has done nothing to rememdy the problems of Jamaica. When Mr Seaga was in power, he also could do and did do nothing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Again you don't know what you are talking about.

[wolmersboy]

Re: Portia's budget speech

[ QUOTE ]
Tuff Gong,
My point is and was that the problems of Jamaica are linked directly to the economic system under which it operates.
It matters not at all whether the PNP or the JLP are in power as the outcome is always the same: stagnant growth, increasing and or constant debt, corruption, crumbling infrastructure, lack of economic and educational opportunity for the poor, inadequate healthcare and a lack of a social safety net.
The situation is much the same for the poor even in the wealthiest of capitalist countries if in a smaller overall percentage.

In any country, there is just so much money -goods and services- to go around and if a disproportionate share goes to those few at the top, nothing is left for those many at the bottom.
A perfect analogy is the lifeboat with twenty people in it.
One person has more food and water and the other necessities for survival than he /she needs while the 19 others barely cling to life.

It makes no sense in a humane Christian sense for this to exist in that lifeboat at sea or in a country with three or 300 million people.

In the world today, there is enough of everything to go around so that every man, woman and child could life a good life but not when the distribution of those goods and services are dictated by an economic policy that always places profits above human need and the disproportionate share of wealth in the hands of a relative few.

The JLP and the PNP are wed to a capitalist economy. They would never consider the humane alternative. They are, in fact, proscribed from considering the humane alternative by the United States.

To answer your question, the PNP, JLP and capitalism have evrything to do with the sad state of affairs in Jamaica.
As you said the PNP has been in power for many years and has done nothing to rememdy the problems of Jamaica. When Mr Seaga was in power, he also could do and did do nothing.

They cannot offer solutions because they are the problem; both of them.
To vote in one in place of the other and expect any serious change is foolishness.
The answer to Jamaica's problems, to any Third World countries' problems is not a change in party when each basically supports the same unworkable economic system: an unfair and inhumane economic system that lies at the heart of Jamaica's malaise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree.

Several other Caribbean nations operate under capitalistic governments (Trinidad and Tobago, Barbados, Grenada, etc.) but they do not have the problems to the degree that Jamaica has. Nor do they have the resources that Jamaica has! I believe Jamaica is where it is simply because of squandered resources and opportunities.
Socialism/communism by themselves are not a cure-all either. Look at the countries that have been down that path and didn't do so well either (Romania, Vietnam, North Korea, East Germany, Poland,etc.) The Chinese are doing great things for their people and have become a major player on the world scene by opening up their markets and engaging in free trade. Why are the Chinese succesful? They have leaders with vision.
Cuba is an anomaly or is it? Fidel Castro--whether you agree or disagree with his policies--has a vision for his people and his country and they are focused on that.

I challenge someone to tell me what the vision and direction is of the Jamaican government! What is the overriding national priority? What is the one thing or things that are consistent regardless of who sits in the seat of power?

The problem in Jamaica has been and will continue to be, LEADERSHIP. I don't care what the -ism is: if you don't have leadership committed to a national goal (better education, health care, debt payments, whatever) the country will never advance.

[niceniss]

Re: Portia's budget speech

[ QUOTE ]
Tuff Gong,
My point is and was that the problems of Jamaica are linked directly to the economic system under which it operates.
It matters not at all whether the PNP or the JLP are in power as the outcome is always the same: stagnant growth, increasing and or constant debt, corruption, crumbling infrastructure, lack of economic and educational opportunity for the poor, inadequate healthcare and a lack of a social safety net.
The situation is much the same for the poor even in the wealthiest of capitalist countries if in a smaller overall percentage.

In any country, there is just so much money -goods and services- to go around and if a disproportionate share goes to those few at the top, nothing is left for those many at the bottom.
A perfect analogy is the lifeboat with twenty people in it.
One person has more food and water and the other necessities for survival than he /she needs while the 19 others barely cling to life.

It makes no sense in a humane Christian sense for this to exist in that lifeboat at sea or in a country with three or 300 million people.

In the world today, there is enough of everything to go around so that every man, woman and child could life a good life but not when the distribution of those goods and services are dictated by an economic policy that always places profits above human need and the disproportionate share of wealth in the hands of a relative few.

The JLP and the PNP are wed to a capitalist economy. They would never consider the humane alternative. They are, in fact, proscribed from considering the humane alternative by the United States.

To answer your question, the PNP, JLP and capitalism have evrything to do with the sad state of affairs in Jamaica.
As you said the PNP has been in power for many years and has done nothing to rememdy the problems of Jamaica. When Mr Seaga was in power, he also could do and did do nothing.

They cannot offer solutions because they are the problem; both of them.
To vote in one in place of the other and expect any serious change is foolishness.
The answer to Jamaica's problems, to any Third World countries' problems is not a change in party when each basically supports the same unworkable economic system: an unfair and inhumane economic system that lies at the heart of Jamaica's malaise.

[/ QUOTE ]

please dont crap all over my computer screen.

that junk u wrote should be flushed...