2 question bout dis doc weh get awf di rape charge

[RichD]

Re: 2 question bout dis doc weh get awf di rape charge

what kinds of loophole you taking about?


like anyother constitution the interpretation is debatable and is usually cemented by the rulings of the court on challenge.

[niceniss]

Re: 2 question bout dis doc weh get awf di rape charge


[ QUOTE ]
A Charter of Wrongs? The best and worst of times for human rights
published: Sunday | February 26, 2006

Frank Phipps, Contributor

JAMAICA IS going through a period of the 'best of times and the worst of times' for human rights.

Whoever decided that Cabinet meetings should be held in secret knew what he was about.

How would there be justification in public arena of the obvious conflict between the proposed Charter of Rights on one hand, and on the other hand, legislation coming from Parliament where little by little, rights and freedoms are being eroded?

The Charter of Rights, which is intended to improve on the Fundamental Rights in the present Constitution, has long been in gestation "... for 15 years!" the Minister of Justice complains, even while accommodating a late intervention by church leaders.

Before the birth of the charter, and during the period of existing rights in the present Constitution, the Minister of National Security has been resolute in providing harsh and severe measures for the control of crime; measures that offend against the concept of human rights in a civilised and democratic society without corresponding effect in the reduction of crime.

PERILOUS SITUATION

No one in his or her right mind can accept or condone the high level of criminal conduct, especially murder, in Jamaica at this time. We are in a perilous situation and it is imperative that a solution be found, but don't throw out the baby with the bath water. It is not beyond the intellectual capacity of persons of goodwill to identify and understand the problems that have given rise to our present state of affairs, and to find a solution with provisions for the reduction without patent abuses of the rights by agents of the State. If we continue in the present way we may win the battle but lose the war, as illustrated below.


The Suppression of Crimes Act, now repealed, but the provisions reintroduced by the back door, denied an individual the right to privacy of home and property, and protection from search of his person. These are extreme measures that do not prevent an escalation in crime.

The Gun Court, (was painted red because it is dread), continues today with its infamous and disreputable provision for secret trials, and crime increases.

Jamaica was withdrawn from the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. (ICCPR) thereby precluding the UN Human Rights Committee from hearing cases relating to the death penalty because that institution was seen as an obstacle to hanging. This did not reduce the incidence of murder in Jamaica, and there still is no hanging.

The Extradition Act that allows citizens to be sent out of Jamaica to be tried in foreign states for crimes allegedly committed in Jamaica. This act not only discredits our legal and judicial systems but also deprives the citizen of the right to be tried in his own country with guaranteed constitutional provisions to secure protection of law.

Evidence Amendment Act permits and accepts as evidence at trials, the statement of a person not made on oath, recorded in writing by the police, where the maker of the statement is dead, off the island, or cannot be found. The maker of the statement does not appear in court to be cross-examined where the accuser faces the accused in open trial. This allows conviction without a witness, and to it must now be added the latest proposals in the Proceeds of Crime Bill for seizure and forfeiture of property to the Crown without a relevant conviction.

The Memorandum of Objects and Reasons for the Proceeds of Crime Bill states, "to authorise the confiscation of assets or benefits that are derived from the general criminal lifestyle of the defendant, as opposed to specific criminal acts evidenced by a conviction." And, "to forfeit property reasonably suspected to be derived from criminal conduct, where no one has been held criminally liable for that conduct." The legislation seeks to address deficiencies in the present law by creating an agency in the Ministry of Finance that can:
(a) apply to the Supreme Court for forfeiture of property to the Crown where a defendant has been convicted of any offence (even in the Resident Magistrate's Court), after the court has determined that the defendant has a 'criminal lifestyle and has benefited from his general criminal conduct'.

(b) apply to the court in civil proceeding for a Recovery Order against any person believed to be holding recoverable property i.e. 'property obtained through unlawful conduct' not necessarily of a particular kind; and have the property vested in the Agency. Proceedings for a Recovery Order may be brought within a period of twelve years from the date on which the cause of action accrued; and the time limits otherwise in the Limitation of Actions Act shall not apply to these proceedings.

FORFEITURE OF PROPERTY

In proceedings for forfeiture of property or for a Recovery Orders the court shall determine any question arising on a balance of probabilities.

In the Third Schedule to the act there is provision for a member of the staff of the Agency, if authorised to do anything, he may for that purpose identify himself by means of a pseudonym, and he shall not be required to reveal his true identity.

This bill, if it becomes law, will unleash a weapon of mass destruction against the constitutional provision for security of property; it will cause more problems than it could cure in the fight against crime. It must be looked at very closely by each of us as it may affect all of us, most particularly by the Private Sector Organisation of Jamaica, and must be deeply considered before it is signed into law.

It is important to restate the above provisions with their restrictions and denial of human rights, which have not so far achieved the desired result for a reduction in crime.

While the learned Attorney-General and Minister of Justice is striving might and main to pass a Charter of Rights, the Minister of National Security with equal assiduity and resolution is doing all in his power to put together further ingredients for A Charter of Wrongs. We must be resolute and determined in the fight against crime, but we must be equally uncompromising and resolute in the protection of our basic human rights.

Frank Phipps is the well known attorney-at-law.

http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20060226/cleisure/cleisure3.html

[/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ]




Jamaican Government, Opposition at odds over Charter of Rights
published: Thursday | February 2, 2006

Dionne Rose, Staff Reporter

THE GOVERNMENT and the Opposition are at odds on the issue of the right to vote under the amendment to the Charter of Rights and Freedoms Bill, currently being reviewed by a Joint Select Committee of Parliament.

Yesterday's committee meeting departed from the consensus approach of the previous sitting.

This after Opposition Member Mike Henry raised the point that many Jamaicans were currently being disenfranchised on the right to vote because of new requirements being introduced by the Electoral Office of Jamaica for its voter re-verification exercise.

"There is nothing that I am going to say ... especially with 700 squatter communities across Jamaica...that you are going to deny me the right even if I wish to live on the streets," he said.

Opposition committee members Abe Dabdoub and Senator Dorothy Lightbourne insisted the issues were related.

Mr. Dabdoub maintained that the wording of the section on the right to vote allows for a law to be put in place that restricts the right to be registered based on residence.

He said that, currently, persons who are homeless are being denied the right to be registered on that basis.

A RESOLUTION

He then brought a resolution to amend that section of the Bill.

But Government Senator Trevor Munroe said that, if such restrictions were taking place, persons should take the matter up in the courts.

The two sides were unable to reach consensus on the matter. The Opposition Members, who were greater in numbers, insisted on a vote on the matter.

Justice Minister Senator A.J. Nicholson requested that the matter be deferred until next week but was refused.

A vote was then called; five Government members opposed the resolution and six Opposition members voted in favour.

But Senator Nicholson was critical of the Opposition.

"We have been struggling with this for a very long time and, you know, I had hoped that nothing that we have decided on already, would have been resurrected for us to have this kind of thing (disagreement) that we have had today," he said.

Senator Nicholson said that, despite the divided vote, he would be writing to the Consultative Committee to get its views on the matter.

The legislation is aimed at protecting rights and freedoms of citizens, including life, liberty and the security of the person; freedom of thought, conscience, belief and observance of religious and political doctrines, freedom of expression, among others.

http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20060202/lead/lead6.html

[/ QUOTE ]

[mangoskin]

Re: 2 question bout dis doc weh get awf di rape charge

[ QUOTE ]
t the CCJ, a creation of the PNP and a few other regional govt(against opposition protest btw), now has what amounts to final say on what goes such that if the people (eg portmore against the govt re turning the causway into a toll road) have a dispute with the government one can easily predict who is coming out the victor.

[/ QUOTE ]

the Caribbean Court of Justice isn't a PNP created body.. it was created to replace the Privy Council in London which is the final court of appeal for the former british west indian colonies..so, you rather the Lords in London making the decisions rather than west indian justices?

[RichD]

Re: 2 question bout dis doc weh get awf di rape charge

i sdat mi sey too

[ QUOTE ]
But Government Senator Trevor Munroe said that, if such restrictions were taking place, persons should take the matter up in the courts.


[/ QUOTE ]

use to courts to challenge laws which appear to contravene the constitution.

[niceniss]

Re: 2 question bout dis doc weh get awf di rape charge

[ QUOTE ]


the Caribbean Court of Justice isn't a PNP created body.. it was created to replace the Privy Council in London which is the final court of appeal for the former british west indian colonies..so, you rather the Lords in London making the decisions rather than west indian justices?

[/ QUOTE ]
short answer: YES

[niceniss]

Re: 2 question bout dis doc weh get awf di rape charge

u think people havent?

[mangoskin]

Re: 2 question bout dis doc weh get awf di rape charge

the pc isn't in keeping with independence - even with baroness valarie amos as lord president

[niceniss]

Re: 2 question bout dis doc weh get awf di rape charge

[ QUOTE ]
the pc isn't in keeping with independence - even with baroness valarie amos as lord president

[/ QUOTE ]
what? you are looking at symbolism when concrete rights of citizens are at stake?

who cares about how symbolic of collonialism the Privy Council is? The fact is that they are INDEPENDENT of local corrupt policticians. Going to the privy council is expensive but often it delivers.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: 2 question bout dis doc weh get awf di rape charge

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the pc isn't in keeping with independence - even with baroness valarie amos as lord president

[/ QUOTE ]
what? you are looking at symbolism when concrete rights of citizens are at stake?

who cares about how symbolic of collonialism the Privy Council is? The fact is that they are INDEPENDENT of local corrupt policticians. Going to the privy council is expensive but often it delivers.

[/ QUOTE ]They are independent of local corrupt politicians, but is ceartainly the tool of foreign slave masters.
The privy council is one aspect of the remote control of slave masters. It surely is very costly to bequeath to them the power of ultiomate punishment of a supooisedly independent counttyy. especially,they being the ones from which we are supposed to be independent.
i know that not every citizen voted for independence then,and iknpw that we will always have those who don't wnt it,but for the sake of th emajority can we at least give them a chance at independence??

[niceniss]

Re: 2 question bout dis doc weh get awf di rape charge

how are they tools of the 'foreign slave masters' when they are going by the constitution of the country associated with the case? FYI they do NOT go by the UK's rule of law when they are dealing with other countries' cases.

[Q3210]

Re: 2 question bout dis doc weh get awf di rape charge

The CCJ they want as the modern tool used by the modern slave masters.
Jamaica has 11 sewage treatment plants of which only one is functional.
Portland the most rainy and the parish with the most rivers and streams has acute water distribution systems to the people.
Police stations delapidated.
Court offices with material dating back in colonial times being used at trials.
And we want a CCJ.
All in all, yes we should have an independent and home and grown final court of appeal, but the floorboards in local courts are so loose the trials are not tried until months, sometimes years of delay.
And we want a CCJ.

I think many of us suffer from delusions. We see an oasis when in reality there is a dry and arrid desert that surrounds us and as far as the horizon the steam rises and percolates an illusion of independent pride that though good it ought to be, is simply not.

[evanovitch]

Re: 2 question bout dis doc weh get awf di rape charge

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what dem mean by Justiciable?


[ QUOTE ]
There are no balance checks so the politicians are the ones who appoint judges and so on. isnt that a conflict of interest?

[/ QUOTE ]

this sytem works well in many other countries why cant it work in jamaica?

[/ QUOTE ]

ok, di quote go like this: <font color="red"> To give the people justiciable rights would derogate from the sovereignty of parliament </font>

justiciable, in this context, means rights that the people can take to court
or capable of being decided by legal principles or by a court of justice

[/ QUOTE ]

Mr Coore should be ashamed of himself for making that statement...truss me , the statement has been making the conversation rounds a yaad at alllll levels....many r taken aback by it...some cause, dem neva expek him fi seh out loud weh him obviously was tinking re ' likkle' people all dis while, and oddas, cause is furda proof re the attitudinal divide between who claim to rule and speak for an of the people and their real intent toward said people

biggggg discussion gwane pon it fi real

[niceniss]

Re: 2 question bout dis doc weh get awf di rape charge

whether he should be ashamed or not is another issue, the one I'm more concerned about is the contempt the drafters( him being one) of the constitution show for the Jamaican people. You see why Jamaica is in the state that it is?

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: 2 question bout dis doc weh get awf di rape charge

[ QUOTE ]
whether he should be ashamed or not is another issue, the one I'm more concerned about is the contempt the drafters( him being one) of the constitution show for the Jamaican people. You see why Jamaica is in the state that it is?

[/ QUOTE ]
Well those drafters wer the top echelons of the JLP,PNP,Church,University and the Colonial office.
As I have been sating all along, the Independence that was granted to Jamaica,is only a deciet. How can Jamaica be independent,if the price of all it's major export,and the price of all it's imports are ditated by the former colonialists?
How can a country be independent,if those who are incharge of the economy are the asme ones who never wanted independence for Jamaica. They have not change their attitude toward the localsnor their intent to return the country to colonialism.
They rarely if ever express anything but disdain towards the common Jamaicans. they have stifled the Jamaican economy to th epoint where,only the areas where they had no control thathas put the country forward.
The areas that have return the most for jamaica is culture,music,scholarship,and sport.
The reason why areas like manufacturing,major commerce,like redeveloping of down town,sky scrapers etc,is so depressed,is because the majority have been kept out of those areas,for the most part. Of course,there are the few token ones,but the real potential is with those that does look or behave to suit those in power.In other words,they are not satisfied to be waterboys for them.
They rarely contribute anything,but the bear minimum,and demand publicity value in return.

[mangoskin]

Re: 2 question bout dis doc weh get awf di rape charge

[ QUOTE ]
how are they tools of the 'foreign slave masters' when they are going by the constitution of the country associated with the case? FYI they do NOT go by the UK's rule of law when they are dealing with other countries' cases.

[/ QUOTE ]

they most certainly do! in the matter of the death penalty, they have ruled against executions, even when it is on the law books of jamaica, the bahamas etc