Why Are Black-Led Countries Doing So Badly?

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Why Are Black-Led Countries Doing So Badly?

You still do not get 'it'.
What is the use of an education if it does not help you to understand your plight?
Jamaicans may be more knowledgable.but these people seem to be more aware of their good.

venezulia is only in the infancy stage,the Us has not yet given up on overthrowing Chaves and will not do so.
How long have they been atfter castro?
Why would chavez or any other nationalist 9leaders with the country's people at heart) be exempted from their policy. Do you think this would be the first latin american countries have tried to control their economy?
Ever read the history of the US companies in Guatamalia?
What about Chile,Argentina and all of south america. they have all tried at some time before only to be accused of being communists and overthrown by others.

[wolmersboy]

Re: Why Are Black-Led Countries Doing So Badly?

Point well made, Blackstar!

Simply blaming Europe/America for the problem does not answer the question of why the problem still exists. (See my previous post on victimhood.)

If everyone is agreed who is at fault and why they are at fault, why are we still unable/unwilling to change our tactics/direction/policies? The Europeans were very harsh in their treatment of indigenous peoples in South America, Asia and the Middle East. However, we lag far behind these people in recovering from our colonial "heritage". I maintain that until we start to realize collectively that we can only rely on ourselves to look out for our own interests, that there will be little or no progress made.

[Blackstar*]

Re: Why Are Black-Led Countries Doing So Badly?

[ QUOTE ]
How long have they been atfter castro?

[/ QUOTE ]

And we see how well that's been going, eh. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img]

I get 'it', Dr. Dudd, but for every example you give, there is a counter-example. The only exception I haven't found is arms sales to "warring" factions - those countries are all underdeveloped.

Guatamala, the Honduras, the Philippines, et. al. aren't doing well because they have the same combination of weak leadership/population that we have. Look from when Marcos dead and the Philippines is still mucking about while its neighbors surpass it (and us btw).

[wolmersboy]

Re: Why Are Black-Led Countries Doing So Badly?

[ QUOTE ]
You still do not get 'it'.
What is the use of an education if it does not help you to understand your plight?
Jamaicans may be more knowledgable.but these people seem to be more aware of their good.

venezulia is only in the infancy stage,the Us has not yet given up on overthrowing Chaves and will not do so.
How long have they been atfter castro?
Why would chavez or any other nationalist 9leaders with the country's people at heart) be exempted from their policy. Do you think this would be the first latin american countries have tried to control their economy?
Ever read the history of the US companies in Guatamalia?
What about Chile,Argentina and all of south america. they have all tried at some time before only to be accused of being communists and overthrown by others.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's irrelevant what the US or whoever does in response to these countries. Venezuela and Bolivia didn't send in the troops this time; they negotiated directly with the foreign oil/gas companies and they got a pretty good deal that everyone is happy with. What is relevant to this discussion is that these people were dissatisfied with the status quo and changed it. Why can't we do the same? What are we waiting for?

[Blackstar*]

Re: Why Are Black-Led Countries Doing So Badly?

I wouldn't say that Mr. Rennis has a point, but still...

[ QUOTE ]
Read the complete letter...if you must
Saturday, August 26, 2006

Dear Editor,

<snip>

It is not the uneducated people who are the problem in Jamaica, it is the corrupt, selfish, arrogant educated people who are the problem. Jamaica seems to become more corrupt with increased education. In other words, increased education in Black countries is inversely proportional to prosperity. That is to say that, as Black people within predominantly Black states get more educated, the country suffers more. Essentially then, while education serves as a means to prosperity in countries under 'White rule', it serves as a means to drive Black-ruled countries into deeper poverty. Education then, is the means by which Black countries increase in poverty. It is a tool, which is used by Blacks, in Black-ruled countries to gain access to the countries' wealth and instead of building the country, they in turn 'enrich' themselves.

<snip>

Howard Rennis
[email protected]

[/ QUOTE ]

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Why Are Black-Led Countries Doing So Badly?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You still do not get 'it'.
What is the use of an education if it does not help you to understand your plight?
Jamaicans may be more knowledgable.but these people seem to be more aware of their good.

venezulia is only in the infancy stage,the Us has not yet given up on overthrowing Chaves and will not do so.
How long have they been atfter castro?
Why would chavez or any other nationalist 9leaders with the country's people at heart) be exempted from their policy. Do you think this would be the first latin american countries have tried to control their economy?
Ever read the history of the US companies in Guatamalia?
What about Chile,Argentina and all of south america. they have all tried at some time before only to be accused of being communists and overthrown by others.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's irrelevant what the US or whoever does in response to these countries. Venezuela and Bolivia didn't send in the troops this time; they negotiated directly with the foreign oil/gas companies and they got a pretty good deal that everyone is happy with. What is relevant to this discussion is that these people were dissatisfied with the status quo and changed it. Why can't we do the same? What are we waiting for?

[/ QUOTE ]
The actions have to be done froma posituion where they are likely to be a success. that position has eluded the countries of africa,because they do not even own the domestic economy. that is ownwed by people who are aligned toi foreign countries,and without this, it is impossible to move to control that which is owned by transnational giants.
and yes it matters what the US does,because they are capable of ddsrstroying the country in a effort to stop national ownership of it's resources,and it is no good if you loose all your infrastructure and still don't control your resources.

[johnnycakes]

Re: Why Are Black-Led Countries Doing So Badly?

Blackstar,
Chavez did not take over the oil business but did increase Venezuela's cut of the profits.
I heard that the U.S oil companies involved were telling all Chavez's cr itics here in the U.S. to shut up because they were doing quite well under the Chavez deal and didn't want any problems such as a coup d'etat.

As to the question as to why black-led countries are doing so poorly.
It's several things. Firstly it's the colonial past and the neo-colonial present that has not only impoverished these countries but has indebted them far into the future. The World Bank, the I.M.F. and other First World banks are bleeding sub-Saharan Africa dry. So too are the unequal deals made with First World oil companies, mineral extractors and whatever a particular country has that is exploitable/ valuable is given away for a song.

Secondly is the economic systems that range from near-feudal, barter-based tribal systems to the capitalist - based kleptocracies, all oligarchies all ruled by the rich and powerful.
Capitalism does not work in the Third World which is inherently resource poor; a lack of resources being a criterion of the definition of" Third World" .

Much like Jamaica but far worse in the levels of poverty, they too spend inordinate amounts of money in servicing their enormous debt and all that money -better than half of everything- then does not go to infrastructure, healthcare, schools, social services and things never change.

Then too, capitalism is horribly corrupting and the drive for money that is necessitated by capitalist systems, that is at the center of capitalism, ensures that those at the top of power or wealth will continue to be corrupt
and things cannot change easily within such a corrupted environment.

It usually takes a revolution: a violent revolution because those in power use force to hold onto power even if and when the people vote them out.

[Archie68]

Re: Why Are Black-Led Countries Doing So Badly?

There are many that keep proclaiming the all powerful white American or European are the reasons behind everything. Utter nonsense.

This is like argueing over the lottery being fixed. The lottery does not need to be fixed; the odds are already heavily against you.

There is no need to fix the game if you are the house; and the house always wins.

So, keep the conspiracy theories coming.

My answer is: no need for a conspiracy. Look who owns ones the house and who controlls what the house wants. All you clever people and you still are lost.

In every case, follow the money. That is what it is about. You can substitute money for oil by the way.Follow who has, who wants and who can pay for it and everything makes sense.

[wolmersboy]

Re: Why Are Black-Led Countries Doing So Badly?

The actions have to be done froma posituion where they are likely to be a success. that position has eluded the countries of africa,because they do not even own the domestic economy. that is ownwed by people who are aligned toi foreign countries,and without this, it is impossible to move to control that which is owned by transnational giants.
Doc,
The black peoples of this planet cannot sit around indefinitely waiting for the "right time" to make their move. At some point, whether it has been by violent revolution or years of intense political activity, other trampled peoples of this world have taken control of their resources and charted their own destiny. (e.g. China, Vietnam, South America, Middle East) The original question still stands: why can these people achieve this but so many of the black-led countries cannot or will not follow their example? I cannot accept that somehow things just worked out for Castro, Chavez and the Ayatollah but it's just not the right time for black people.
Are these other people braver than us? Smarter than us? Is there a faction among us that just doesn't want progress? There has to be a better answer to this question.

[little pepper]

Re: Why Are Black-Led Countries Doing So Badly?

I think there are many reasons, and I'm not aware of them all.

For starters, the countries/areas mentioned all currently have something others want - very cheap labour to cut production costs, and oil. I don't think Asia could compete with anyone if wages there were decent. Currently they can get away with undercutting everyone because a lot of workers barely get enough to exist on.

ME has oil, and from what I've heard over the decades, has done nothing with developing their countries or infrastructure with that enormous amount of money. They don't compete with anyone really, do they?

I still hear from Asians that life in those Asian countries is still not easy. The workers don't get the money, the people who do seem to hoard it.

I personally think that lack of education is one of the things that keeps a country down - more educated at least become aware of things including their rights and may be able to make a decision from that. Uneducated don't even know what's stacked against them, just that something is.

[Q3210]

Re: Why Are Black-Led Countries Doing So Badly?

Please look at the simplest of daily things, how we act in this so-called civilized country called Jamaica for example.

We dont show respect for our fellow people by breaking Qeues/ lines at the bank, in traffic, at the bustop.

We do not read. We do not follow instructions, we tend more to break down morals.

We step on each other thinking that no matter what, once you get on top, you is de boss.

We burn our bridges behind us. We forget where we come and we dont maintain bridges for others to come make the crossing too.

We boasty and braggish to thy kingdom come. We like to show off and will wear clothes not for comfort but for brand and fad.

We have no road manners. We drive without dipping our lights at oncoming traffic.

Add some of those ill-equipped disabilities up and see if they are not symptoms, if they are not related to why we are what we are on the economic ladder.

Yea, we seek not development, but we will seek glory and accomplishment in gaining power and weilding it against our very own as quoted by that Nigerian scholar.

Another thing, is that we do not foster trust amongst one another. We like folkorist Anancy tend to want to outsmart each other down to the last grain for personal gain.
We cannot have development without peace and we cannot have peace without justice.
Many countries that have weak justice systems get no where economically.
Countries divided by political and/ or ethnic tribes like us PNP vs JLP and the electorate mis-educated not by outer forces but by our own misculture that makes leaders in office make corrupt statements and not do anything to correct it like, "Politics is about WHO gets what when and how."
"Those that go by the rules get shafted."
"Politics is a fight for scarce benefits and political spoils carried on by poltical tribes that are perpetually at war and strive to divide rather than unite."
"We believe that we are best to lead the country and that we believe that anything we do to remain in power is best for the country."

With statements like those above by people in power all within the past 10 years, not in colonial times, not in the days of slavery, but in the free days of recent Jamaica history, how do we expect to be any better than those countries that we flee to gain better opportunity and justice?

[Q3210]

Re: Why Are Black-Led Countries Doing So Badly?

look at when somebody dead...at dead yard...the noise...the loud music through the night..disturbing neighbours....not caring for others but themselves.

Black leadership doesn`t lead by example. They allow all of those simp[le things to go on unabated...disturbing peace unable to think with any quality. if you get my extreme view.
I think the little things get blown up and they affect the progress of quality thought....so we look at color as an excuse...we think that being civilized is being White...so we are anti-social and most of the young do drugs...that lead them to be tending to be unsanitary and dirty...look at any teenagers room....no matter how you talk they dont listen.

So black leadership has an extreme lot of mess to corrct before we can think about building our own bridges and planes and being a united nation.
Botswana for sure....one ina million.
What is it that they are doing that we are not?

[j-can]

Re: Why Are Black-Led Countries Doing So Badly?

Yes Massa Q preach to the uncivilized lot that we all are [img]/forums/images/graemlins/70368-hoppingmad.gif[/img]

[Archie68]

Re: Why Are Black-Led Countries Doing So Badly?

Q3210 is right. Little Pepper, Asia depends on the low wages you talk about. They are moving up in the world and we are falling behind.

I ask, those that remember, about the controvesy about NIKE and Martha Steward Sweat shops in Central AMerica and Asia.

They were shut down. Does anyone know who was most upset? They women that lost their pathetic jobs. They lost the ability to send their children to school and be independent of their husbands. All that was left to them was to return home and get pregnant. Their opionion, not mine.

I was very surprised. But I learned. I remember a time when I bought some Ralph Lauren shirts for my cousin. He reject them because they were made in JA. They are not made their anymore.

TO return to the point, our leaders are poisoned. Too many have studied under US or socialist countries. They have standards that do not apply to the situation.

I welcome sweet shops. Anything that offers a JOB, I welcome to Jamaica. I suggest Africa do the same. Because that is the difference between employment and nothing.

From that exploitive experience, a generation of educated professionals, employed in their own country, can develope.

The Asians developed that way. KOrea and Taewain developed that way. Look at the "tigers" of Asia. How did they do it?

However, we have a complete lack of leadership. No one is couragous to say, we must start where we are; the bottom. Instead, our leaders borrow relentlessly and pay interst on what is borrowed and then blame those they borrowed from. And, we do not hold them accountable for having no plan besides rhetoric and reelection.

In truth, we do not want to hear the truth. It is inconvenient. Thus the failure continues.

[ohliz]

Re: Why Are Black-Led Countries Doing So Badly?

[ QUOTE ]
I welcome sweet shops.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mmmm.....me too [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]



(couldn't resist...carry on, this is an interesting discussion to which i don't have anything of substance to add, at least not yet)