former Singapore PM: Jamaica patwa the root of eco

[Dr.Dudd]

Economic failure.

On Bloomberg news interview aired 4/2/2011.

He state That the reason he insisted on the policy of making English mandatory he saw How the English patwa in Jamaica created a permanent underclass.

He stated That the strength of Singapore is the integration of it's people.

The maintain quotas in every community to prevent division slow g racial, religious, or cultural lines.

His son is the current prime minister.

Incidentally i agree with him.

Language is the most tool of communication.

the greater the range and scope of language the greater the ease of economic growth.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: former Singapore PM: Jamaica patwa the root of eco

Jamaicans have been at the fore front of excelence inJust about every feild they have been involved.
The fact That if we can achieve those levels of achievement in All these areas There us no reason why with appropriate strategy we can't create an English speaking population.
There us no advantage in hanging on to a means of communication That only isolate us And create more difficulty in our adopting English as our primary language.

[Wahalla]

Re: former Singapore PM: Jamaica patwa the root of eco

Doc i agree with you.. but I also recall being told in the 70's that it was a sign of elitism and wanting to ape the white man...

I was aware of the claim by lee kwan Yu and Mahatir Mohamed of Malaysia also made a similar claim after the 72 or 73 chommon wealht head of states meeting in Jamaica... both insisted on english teaching..

I was thinking that that the world wants to speak english.. I was doing buisness in Norway this week wioth Braxilians,Italians, chinese and Norwegians we spoke English....Culturly it may be an sop to try and teach patwa but it is buisness..

Malaysai and singapore also made Mandarin and Malay as offical language.. (He changed from Cantonese in the 80's) along with english...

[Q3210]

Re: former Singapore PM: Jamaica patwa the root of eco

From the 70s yu si what yu said. English like Seaga were demonized. The PNP when in Govt. have created a social backwardness that has stripped development from 100 to minus 100. The miseducation prevalent in the quality thinking in the minds of so-called intellectual Jamaicans has it all to do with our misadventures with anti-elitism, anti-entrepeneursim and fictional democratic socialism that was encouraged by Michael Manley, Trevor Munroe and DK Duncan of the 70s.

[Blackstar*]

Re: former Singapore PM: Jamaica patwa the root of eco

Being bilingual might make you smarter

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: former Singapore PM: Jamaica patwa the root of eco

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BlackStar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Being bilingual might make you smarter </div></div>
i wouldn't like to see my IQ if i was not bilingual with English And patwa.

I suppose That said a lot.

[barosa]

Re: former Singapore PM: Jamaica patwa the root of eco

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BlackStar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Being bilingual might make you smarter </div></div>
Yes, I will agree if Jamaicans were intent on becomming bi-lingual in two recognized languages they would be a lot smarter.. The educated among us do reasonably well with English and could have easily added another.. Our schools should have been teaching Spanish as our second language because of our proximity to Central and South America.. Patwa would be just a cultural thing..
___________________________________

Just like oil, the truth always surface to the top..

[Blackstar*]

Re: former Singapore PM: Jamaica patwa the root of eco

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: barosa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Patwa would be just a cultural thing.</div></div>barosa, I'm not going to berate you over this (too much), but &quot;just a cultural thing&quot; doesn't exist. Our culture is our identity and without it we are nothing. I think Jcans are perfectly capable of being polyglot with Patois, English, then either Spanish, French, or Portuguese as the third language.

Many of my friends from Africa speak 3-4 languages! They master at least two and can get by pretty well in one or two more. Native English speakers are the only group I've met in my travels who are so [censored] resistant to multilingualism. Ugh.

[barosa]

Re: former Singapore PM: Jamaica patwa the root of eco

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BlackStar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">barosa]Patwa would be just a cultural thing.</div></div>barosa, I'm not going to berate you over this (too much), but &quot;just a cultural thing&quot; doesn't exist. Our culture is our identity and without it we are nothing. I think Jcans are perfectly capable of being polyglot with Patois, English, then either Spanish, French, or Portuguese as the third language.</div></div>

BlackStar, I fully agree with your take on the &quot;cultural aspect&quot; of being &quot;who we are&quot; as Jamaicans and I'm glad that I didn't get your full &quot;blast&quot;... If it seems that I was dismissive about our culture, that was not my intention; afterall, I grew up like most Jamaicans speaking &quot;patwa&quot; and still enjoys it when it is neccessary.

However, one of the points raised by the former Singapore PM and to which I agree, is as foll: <span style="font-weight: bold">He state That the reason he insisted on the policy of making English mandatory he saw How the English patwa in Jamaica created a permanent underclass.</span> As you are aware, he saw the developing &quot;language situation&quot; and its future effect on Jamaica and took steps to prevent it happening in Singapore..

I grant it, the two countries are not comming from the same place and so it's not quite fair to compare them. But you must admit that there is some merit in what he says; - for example, our growing underclass for the most part depends on patwa for their communication and because of that are shunned and shut out of the mainstream of our society.. The more educated among us are able to converse with them at their level but the opposite is more difficult for them...

Now, if there was an &quot;Englishfication&quot; (just coined) Policy in Jamaica during the early years of &quot;self governance&quot;, we would have lessened the great divide between US and THEM making for a more unified country. Instead, there was a campaign or still is, to elevate Patwa to the level of &quot;National Language&quot; to facilitate the already less fortunate of our society... That would not be helpful for them and our society.. We could have done &quot;more&quot; and still have our patwa, a vital part of our cultural heritage..

_________________________________________

Just like oil, the truth always surface to the top..

[Dyoll_73]

Re: former Singapore PM: Jamaica patwa the root of eco

I wouldn't say it is the root of Jamaica's economic problems, but definitely a strong contributing factor in Jamaica's current predicament. I've been saying this for years. But don't tell this to Jamaica's ruling intelligentsia.

Still, I'd love for the former PM to expand on this thesis.

[jah_yout]

Re: former Singapore PM: Jamaica patwa the root of eco

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BlackStar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: barosa</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Patwa would be just a cultural thing.</div></div>barosa, I'm not going to berate you over this (too much), but &quot;just a cultural thing&quot; doesn't exist. Our culture is our identity and without it we are nothing. I think Jcans are perfectly capable of being polyglot with Patois, English, then either Spanish, French, or Portuguese as the third language.

Many of my friends from Africa speak 3-4 languages! They master at least two and can get by pretty well in one or two more. Native English speakers are the only group I've met in my travels who are so [censored] resistant to multilingualism. Ugh. </div></div>

i agree;
and a bit puzzled since the official language of jamaica is already english..
it is what is used in school &amp; in official business...
so eliminating patwa is misguided...
perhaps what is needed is stronger concentration on teaching english proficiency...
just like how knowing perfect standard english did not somehow knock patwa out of my brain, why should the reverse be true?
a lazy gov't will give a million excuses before offering one solution