Obama To Cubans: "Drop Dead"

[johnnycakes]

Re: Obama To Cubans: "Drop Dead"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You do know that the U.S IS trying to destroy the socialist revolution in Cuba hence the $30 million dollar outlay by Obama to wage a cyber war in continuance of that effort.

I didn't see any mention of that fact in any of the three articles. </div></div>

has that fact been proven to be actually a fact? any other source? </div></div>


Gosh RichD,

I don't know what I was thinking saying that the United States was trying to crush the Cuban revolution/socialism.

In the absence of any proof over the past 50 years, I'll have to rethink what I said.

I keep forgetting that the U.S is about doing good in the world and is tolerant of socialism wherever it may pop up.

Thanks for reminding me.

[RichD]

Re: Obama To Cubans: &quot;Drop Dead&quot;

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You do know that the U.S IS trying to destroy the socialist revolution in Cuba hence the $30 million dollar outlay by Obama to wage a cyber war in continuance of that effort.

I didn't see any mention of that fact in any of the three articles. </div></div>

has that fact been proven to be actually a fact? any other source? </div></div>


Gosh RichD,

I don't know what I was thinking saying that the United States was trying to crush the Cuban revolution/socialism.

In the absence of any proof over the past 50 years, I'll have to rethink what I said.

I keep forgetting that the U.S is about doing good in the world and is tolerant of socialism wherever it may pop up.

Thanks for reminding me.

</div></div>

you know very well i'm talking about this specific $30M allocation.

Again i wall ask have you verified the accuracy of this story?

[johnnycakes]

Re: Obama To Cubans: &quot;Drop Dead&quot;

http://dignidadcuba.blogspot.com/2011/03/cuban-television-airs-new-episode-on.html

http://realcuba.wordpress.com/2011/04/page/3/

http://cubamoneyproject.org/?p=1257

http://alongthemalecon.blogspot.com/2011/03/cuba-denounces-us-funded-destabilizing.html

http://cubajournal.blogspot.com/2011/03/us-government-to-spend-30-million-on.html

[johnnycakes]

Re: Obama To Cubans: &quot;Drop Dead&quot;


http://watchingamerica.com/News/94934/co...ession-against-

cuba/http://www.thehavananote.com/contributors/3/all

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/cuban_col...in-2011-12.html

http://www.periodico26.cu/english/index....inst-cuba-.html

http://cubacentral.wordpress.com/2011/03/04/breaking-news-alan-gross-trial-begins-in-havana/

http://www.radioangulo.icrt.cu/en/index.php?option=com_content&amp;view=article&amp;id=9471:us-alan-gross-that-endangered-cubas-state-security-to-serve-15-years&amp;catid=14&amp;Itemid=62

http://en.cubadebate.cu/news/2011/04/07/us-government-promoting-internet-aggression-against-cuba/

[RichD]

Re: Obama To Cubans: &quot;Drop Dead&quot;

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://dignidadcuba.blogspot.com/201...pisode-on.html

http://realcuba.wordpress.com/2011/04/page/3/

http://cubamoneyproject.org/?p=1257

http://alongthemalecon.blogspot.com/2011/03/cuba-denounces-us-funded-destabilizing.html

http://cubajournal.blogspot.com/2011/03/us-government-to-spend-30-million-on.html

</div></div>

thats basically the same source...i woudl not consider that verification.


could they be referring to this story?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/11/us-30m-fighting-internet-censorship

[johnnycakes]

Re: Obama To Cubans: &quot;Drop Dead&quot;

RichD,

I supplied the sources.
Your source is the U.S State Department which is a branch of the U.S government which is torturing Bradley Manning for freeing up web information, trying to shut down Wikileaks.

You have the choice of believing the State Department which lies as a integral part of its operations which have to be kept secret from the American people or believing the victims of U.S aggression.

You're taking the word of the U.S. State Department ?

What a surprise.

[RichD]

Re: Obama To Cubans: &quot;Drop Dead&quot;

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">RichD,

I supplied the sources.
Your source is the U.S State Department which is a branch of the U.S government which is torturing Bradley Manning for freeing up web information, trying to shut down Wikileaks.

You have the choice of believing the State Department which lies as a integral part of its operations which have to be kept secret from the American people or believing the victims of U.S aggression.

You're taking the word of the U.S. State Department ?

What a surprise. </div></div>

I am not taking anybodies word. I simply asked if this was the same $ 30M.

i am looking for verification of the story. so far i have found none.

as far as i'm concerned this is totally fictional.

[f0rTyLeGz]

Re: Obama To Cubans: &quot;Drop Dead&quot;

<span style="font-size: 14pt">My Friend Harry and the Internet in Cuba </span>

Veronica Fernandez

We met each other while students at the University of Havana. In that period, the Federation University Students (FEU) held activities every night and participation was mandatory; there was always a person in charge of taking attendance and their list was considered together with one’s grades in evaluating a student at the end of the year.

That’s how things were when my friend Harry and I were there giving our all to complete our studies. Though he was studying in another faculty, that of foreign languages, we became good friends, and our friendship has remained up until today.

Two years short of completing his major, Harry decided that he wanted to study computer science, so he did that as well. Harry’s perseverance in his desire to constantly improve himself has allowed him to feel realized in his professional life. I always note his wide ranging knowledge acquired in his specialty, one that has reached such heights in recent times.

Harry called me on the phone about two months to tell me that he had read in the paper about a coaxial cable that was being laid that would connect Cuba to the Internet. This thrilled him since he immediately thought — like all of us — that this would once and for all resolve the terrible situation of the Internet in Cuba.

In fact, not only computer specialists but people in general had the hope of seeing an answer to this serious problem that doesn’t even allow us to work efficiently, given the slow connection speeds that bog us down day after day. Likewise, we have limited access to important websites needed for our professional development and on occasion we can’t even open these.

Several days ago Harry called me again, but this time heart-stricken. During a meeting that they had in his ministry, whose main issues were concerns in the area of computer science, he had thought they were going to discuss the new opportunities that would emerge from the stringing of that famous cable from Venezuela to Cuba, the one that has been reported on in the media for more than a year.

All expectations were crushed for Harry, for me and for people who like us who require that service not as a luxury, but as a vital service.

Harry, like so many others of his profession there at the meeting, came out with his heart in pieces. His hopes had been squashed when hearing the director say that though the cable had indeed arrived on the island, but that people shouldn’t have illusions about improvements in Internet service or thoughts of homes getting e-mail.

This official who had dropped that bomb of disillusion also commented that first a study of the situation would be done in each government ministry and later they would see — based on what they found — what would be the priorities for improving Internet connections. He quickly added that this by no means implied that the service would become available for anyone requesting it and that not even all workplaces would experience improvements.

After hearing those dis-motivational words, we have to wonder why they build up people’s hopes with false expectations. You don’t play with human beings, you don’t destroy their dreams.

http://www.havanatimes.org/?p=45125

[johnnycakes]

Re: Obama To Cubans: &quot;Drop Dead&quot;

thanks 40,
I did read that earlier today while researching.

The only hope for press/internet and other restrictions in place in Cuba to counter the U.S attacks to end would be an end to the hostilities from the U.S.

When do you think that will happen?

[f0rTyLeGz]

Re: Obama To Cubans: &quot;Drop Dead&quot;

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">thanks 40,
I did read that earlier today while researching.

The only hope for press/internet and other restrictions in place in Cuba to counter the U.S attacks to end would be an end to the hostilities from the U.S.

When do you think that will happen? </div></div>
The US had nothing to do with this denial of service to the Cuban population. Cuba's dictator, like the ones in North Korea, and Iran, do not want the people to have access to the www. The people are untrustworthy.

[johnnycakes]

Re: Obama To Cubans: &quot;Drop Dead&quot;

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: f0rTyLeGz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">thanks 40,
I did read that earlier today while researching.

The only hope for press/internet and other restrictions in place in Cuba to counter the U.S attacks to end would be an end to the hostilities from the U.S.

When do you think that will happen? </div></div>
The US had nothing to do with this denial of service to the Cuban population. Cuba's dictator, like the ones in North Korea, and Iran, do not want the people to have access to the www. The people are untrustworthy. </div></div>



40,
Okay, whatever you choose to believe.
If you want to believe that a 50 year war against Cuba by the most powerful country in the world has had no effect on civil liberties within Cuba then we have nothing further to discuss about Cuba since you choose to not consider something that central to where Cuba is today.

You'll also have to do some very deep revisions in your version of world history as regards countries that the U.S has successfully subverted unless you're making an exception for Cuba .

[Archie68]

Re: Obama To Cubans: &quot;Drop Dead&quot;

I love how you support Cuba's repression by claiming US war. Yet you claim there is no war.

Joncalvin, stop the triple talk.

Personally, I do not care what Obama says to Cubans. However, I find your relentless, brainless advocasy of a failed man and his system to be insulting. It is impossible to be as stupid as you. You are a plant.

[f0rTyLeGz]

Re: Obama To Cubans: &quot;Drop Dead&quot;

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: f0rTyLeGz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">thanks 40,
I did read that earlier today while researching.

The only hope for press/internet and other restrictions in place in Cuba to counter the U.S attacks to end would be an end to the hostilities from the U.S.

When do you think that will happen? </div></div>
The US had nothing to do with this denial of service to the Cuban population. Cuba's dictator, like the ones in North Korea, and Iran, do not want the people to have access to the www. The people are untrustworthy. </div></div>

40,Okay, whatever you choose to believe.
If you want to believe that a 50 year war against Cuba by the most powerful country in the world has had no effect on civil liberties within Cuba then we have nothing further to discuss about Cuba since you choose to not consider something that central to where Cuba is today. </div></div>
But wait... Cuba linked up with Venezuela to bring a fast internet cable to Cuba. The government has been talking about it for years, and many Cubans were looking forwards to it. Now the cable has arrived, BUT the people wont get to use it. And this is America's fault? What possible benefit could there be for the Cuban people to not have access to fast internet?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You'll also have to do some very deep revisions in your version of world history as regards countries that the U.S has successfully subverted unless you're making an exception for Cuba . </div></div>
&quot;Successfully subverted?&quot; I remember collecting money for Castro back when I was a lad. Money from my pocket went to support him over fifty years ago. But the Chinese really did invade Korea. The Soviets did build a huge military, and there was a Berlin wall. The wall only came down 22 years ago. Were all of those Eastern Bloc countries part of the &quot;successful subversion&quot; by the US?

[jah_yout]

Re: Obama To Cubans: &quot;Drop Dead&quot;

time to end the foolishness...

everyone calls out cuba for repression, lack of transparency blah blah blah...

but readily accept that a superpower should bully a small nation simply because that nation did not willingly go along with dependency status...
the soviet union is no more...korea is two nations...we are big friends with china;

WHY ARE WE STILL FIGHTING CUBA???

hmmmmm

[johnnycakes]

Re: Obama To Cubans: &quot;Drop Dead&quot;

[
&quot;Successfully subverted?&quot; I remember collecting money for Castro back when I was a lad. Money from my pocket went to support him over fifty years ago. But the Chinese really did invade Korea. The Soviets did build a huge military, and there was a Berlin wall. The wall only came down 22 years ago. Were all of those Eastern Bloc countries part of the &quot;successful subversion&quot; by the US? [/quote]



40,
You evidently have not read either &quot;Killing Hope&quot; (visited the website) and especially the introduction and list of 53 interventions in which the U.S was successful.


China came to the aid of the Koreans when the U.S intervened in a civil war.

The Soviets were invaded by the U.S and many European powers at the beginning of their revolution and were very nearly wiped off the map by the Nazis during WWII.
They lost some 50 million people.
OF COURSE they HAD to build a huge and powerful military or die.
The Eastern bloc nations were put in place after the Soviets had won WWII. to provide a buffer between the quite obviously hostile capitalist countries and the Soviets.

That the Soviets were totalitarian and repressive is not in question.
The fact was and is that the U.S is hostile in the extreme to socialism and disobedience to its power.

I neither expect you to look at &quot;Killing Hope&quot; nor to change your thinking on these matters given the reluctance of those on the right to look at anything that gainsays their thinking on these matters .

You really should not close your mind to what (ex-CIA) William Blum,Chomsky and many others have to say about the nature of U.S foreign policy.

What you posted, the blatant errors of perception and fact indicates a serious case of disinformation.

Try reading and understanding the introduction to 'Killing Hope&quot; as a test.

Let me know what you think of it.