The Troubles of Sista P

[Tuff Gong]

Re: The Troubles of Sista P

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Most don't understand economics,and those who know are bent on fooling them.
growth at 2% per quarter is good. </div></div>

If you are saying 1/4 over 1/4 or even annualized growth, there has to be some comparison with a previous figure. Coming from 6% annually in the 80s and dipping to negative figures for most of the 18 year run of this Government I would be surprised if we are anywhere near first base.

BTW <span style="color: #666666">Orlando</span> said it was 2.4% overall and RJR said 2.1 which is it?

[Tuff Gong]

Re: The Troubles of Sista P

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mangoskin</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> yes Tropicana, I feel she will be a breath of fresh air, and I like how she is including the Ministers of Religion, this should make them step up to the plate
</div></div>

Last week the foul smelling, possible toxic fog hung so heavy, so ominous, over her constituency and much of xxxx Killsome that any thing fresh she had brought in for the New Year had vanished by the time the smoke cleared.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: The Troubles of Sista P

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Yuriatin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tuff - according to Dr. Dudd - YES - the money was returned.

____________________


January 9, 2007
GUEST COLUMNIST
The Troubles of Sista P.
By ORLANDO PATTERSON
Kingston, Jamaica

The government, however, handled the revelation ineptly before returning the money, providing endless fodder for the media.
</div></div>

Did the GOJ/Sista P. or anyone in the PNP rerturn the money to Trafigura?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
</div></div> The PNP cannot transfer the money to Trafigura. If they do and the CCOC or whatever they are called, decides that they do not want to. ther is nothing the pNP can do aboiut it.
they have returned it from whoi they got it. Now the onus of Collin campbell to do what he wants with it.
You see it is not against the law for the company to give money to Mr.campbell,just as it was not against the law for either Mr campbell orTrafigura to give to th ePNP. The PNP returne dit without prejudice. they did not have to,because they werenot breaking any laws in recieving it. </div></div>

The Dutch Company broke their country's/Euro Laws law by contributing to political campaign in a foreign country. The PNP said it was a campaign contribution. In fact Sista P. in the outtaview with Orlando said as much.

My question is will she testify when the right time come?

[Tuff Gong]

Re: The Troubles of Sista P

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Yuriatin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe the numbers ARE true! Still the crime has become a disgrace. It's way out of hand. No matter what the figures say. And this is perhaps NOT the worse part. The worse part is that the crime situation is mostly, just a symptom of larger ailments.</div></div>

Let's accept that the numbers are true.
Isn't 1300+ murders and 2000+ plus missing too many for Jamaica?
Out of the 18-year run of this current Government of Jamaica only twice has the numbers been under 1000.
One that score alone should Jamaicans keep asking for more of the same?

[Yuriatin]

Re: The Troubles of Sista P

Prezackly!

Exactly what I'm saying Tuff.

So what &amp; if the rate has dropped 20% ... ?

If the numbers are out of control anyway, then 20% is nothing to cheer about. Yes it's good that it's decreasing but ... why is it so high?

More than that - what is being done to attention the problems causing crime to infiltrate almost every nook and cranny of our island??????

If there were 4000 murders in Jamaica in 2005 and the rate dropped 20% in 2006 so that there were 3000 - THAT'S STILL OUTRAGEOUS!

(and remember - that's assuming that this 20% figure is true)

Take that 20% out to the communities and see what the people are saying about it?

How is that 20% drop being lived?

How is it affecting people?

*IS* it affecting people?

Or is crime really seeping into more and more people's lives?

This 20% decrease is so true and admirable that they have to recruit foreign law enforcement to manage the problem ... ?

The drop is so laudable that we cannot manage it to the point we have to get help from overseas ... ?

Please.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Yuriatin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe the numbers ARE true! Still the crime has become a disgrace. It's way out of hand. No matter what the figures say. And this is perhaps NOT the worse part. The worse part is that the crime situation is mostly, just a symptom of larger ailments.</div></div>

Let's accept that the numbers are true.
Isn't 1300+ murders and 2000+ plus missing too many for Jamaica?
Out of the 18-year run of this current Government of Jamaica only twice has the numbers been under 1000.
One that score alone should Jamaicans keep asking for more of the same?
</div></div>

[Yuriatin]

Re: The Troubles of Sista P

Tuff - keep up.

This has already been explained. There's going to be nothing to testify about because no laws were broken. It was their inexperience that cause the problem.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Yuriatin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">**Why the need for secrecy Dr? Was that due to inexperience?

**What do you think the public needs to do to unerve the proper authorities to keep their promises and build the schools they promised last year, PROPERLY fix the roads, etc?

**What does this mean? <u>She was not well initiated,because the formwer leader did not think she would have been successful in the presidency of the party</u>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think that the idea of returning the money was not well thaught out.
It is the result of being a neophite to political financing experience of the leader of the party.
She was not well initiated,because the formwer leader did not think she would have been successful in the presidency of the party.
The fact is that the funding strategy used by the PNP in the Trafigura affair is not new. It is not unusual,neither is it used in a small percentage,but rather this is the major strategy.
It is used by both political parties as the major funding strategy.
What is the proplem is that secrecy has been the major the major part of this policy in bothe political parties. the leadership of the PNP behaved the way they did,because they were unnerved,by the public exposure,of what they thought was a secret transaction. The inityially tried to create a cover for it,by in their answer,but because of inexperience,they did not consult with the donator,to get their story straight,so that result in two different stories as to what the funds were for.
Then the prime Minister further erred by saying they would return the money.
the fact is that the PN has returned the money to Mr campbell. So they have no legal responsibillity to do anything about it. It is now campbells responsibillity to do whatever he wantto do with it.
He can do the work that Trafigura state he is supposed to do or give it to others who are free to give it to the pNP&lt;JLP any other P or whateverhe wishes.
</div></div> </div></div>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

My question is will she testify when the right time come?
</div></div>

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: The Troubles of Sista P

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Yuriatin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tuff - according to Dr. Dudd - YES - the money was returned.

____________________


January 9, 2007
GUEST COLUMNIST
The Troubles of Sista P.
By ORLANDO PATTERSON
Kingston, Jamaica

The government, however, handled the revelation ineptly before returning the money, providing endless fodder for the media.
</div></div>

Did the GOJ/Sista P. or anyone in the PNP rerturn the money to Trafigura?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
</div></div> The PNP cannot transfer the money to Trafigura. If they do and the CCOC or whatever they are called, decides that they do not want to. ther is nothing the pNP can do aboiut it.
they have returned it from whoi they got it. Now the onus of Collin campbell to do what he wants with it.
You see it is not against the law for the company to give money to Mr.campbell,just as it was not against the law for either Mr campbell orTrafigura to give to th ePNP. The PNP returne dit without prejudice. they did not have to,because they werenot breaking any laws in recieving it. </div></div>

The Dutch Company broke their country's/Euro Laws law by contributing to political campaign in a foreign country. The PNP said it was a campaign contribution. In fact Sista P. in the outtaview with Orlando said as much.

My question is will she testify when the right time come?
</div></div>
So since when does the behavior of a company the responsibillity of others.
So if the government broke the laws would othersbe held responsible for it??

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: The Troubles of Sista P

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Most don't understand economics,and those who know are bent on fooling them.
growth at 2% per quarter is good. </div></div>

If you are saying 1/4 over 1/4 or even annualized growth, there has to be some comparison with a previous figure. Coming from 6% annually in the 80s and dipping to negative figures for most of the 18 year run of this Government I would be surprised if we are anywhere near first base.

BTW <span style="color: #666666">Orlando</span> said it was 2.4% overall and RJR said 2.1 which is it?
</div></div>

I did not say it. It was the subject of the news report. The report clearly stated for the last quarter.
Those in the know knows that 6% of little in most case is less than 2% of the larger figure.
every well thinking economist thatare familiar with Jamaican economy knows that the figures that are published and the and the value of cnsumption is in conflict.
Anyway i am not going to get tied up in these blatantlyerroneous pronouncements passing as honest analysis,by the misinformation machine bent on keeping their strangle hold on the Jamaican economy even when they see the result is iventual implosion.
Ofcourse,they all have their Permanent US visas or UK citizenship.

[Yuriatin]

Re: The Troubles of Sista P

Help me with someting Dudd - in all seriousness ...

When it's said that the Jamaican economy has grown by 2% (or whatever the exact figure is - 2.4, 2.1, etc) what does this translate to - how does this affect the man on the ground? How does he feel it, benefit from it - what is it doing for him?

Thanks.

[Yuriatin]

Re: The Troubles of Sista P

Speaking of the murdered and missing ...

____________________




Grisly find in West Kingston - Cops suspect area is used as execution chamber
published: Wednesday | January 17, 2007


Almost 10 years after five bodies and two human skulls were discovered in a bushy area near the train line off Industrial Terrace, West Kingston, more human remains were found in the vicinity on Monday.

"A complete skeleton of a human body, three skulls and a quantity of human bones were found behind the May Pen Cemetery," Detective Inspector Clayton Ritchie told The Gleaner yesterday.

Mr. Ritchie, who is second in charge of the West Kingston CIB, said that forensic experts have so far confirmed that the human skeleton is that of a male, and the pathologist has determined that the person received a bullet wound.

Forensic experts are still processing the three skulls and human bones that were found at the scene. According to the police, preliminary investigations suggest that criminal elements have been using the area as an 'execution chamber'.

The police believe that the human remains, including the skeleton, could have been there for at least three months.

"The three skulls were clean, meaning that the bones were dry," said Det. Insp. Clayton Ritchie of the Denham Town Police Station." He noted that other things which could have been used as evidence might have been destroyed by the weather.

"We will be paying more attention to this area," said Superintendent Delroy Hewitt, head of the West Kingston Police Station.

Gruesome find

In September 1997, five bodies, including two headless corpses and two human skulls, were discovered by the police in bushes behind the Tivoli Gardens Comprehensive High School.

The bodies were found in four sealed barrels, about 200 metres west along the train line off Industrial Terrace. Two of the bodies were stuffed in one barrel, while one each was later detected in the other three barrels. The bodies were clad only in underwear. Four of them had their hands bound, the fifth was headless and minus his hands.




<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Yuriatin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe the numbers ARE true! Still the crime has become a disgrace. It's way out of hand. No matter what the figures say. And this is perhaps NOT the worse part. The worse part is that the crime situation is mostly, just a symptom of larger ailments.</div></div>

Let's accept that the numbers are true.
Isn't 1300+ murders and 2000+ plus missing too many for Jamaica?
Out of the 18-year run of this current Government of Jamaica only twice has the numbers been under 1000.
One that score alone should Jamaicans keep asking for more of the same?
</div></div>

[Yuriatin]

Re: The Troubles of Sista P

Speaking of the murdered and missing ...

____________________




Grisly find in West Kingston - Cops suspect area is used as execution chamber
published: Wednesday | January 17, 2007


Almost 10 years after five bodies and two human skulls were discovered in a bushy area near the train line off Industrial Terrace, West Kingston, more human remains were found in the vicinity on Monday.

"A complete skeleton of a human body, three skulls and a quantity of human bones were found behind the May Pen Cemetery," Detective Inspector Clayton Ritchie told The Gleaner yesterday.

Mr. Ritchie, who is second in charge of the West Kingston CIB, said that forensic experts have so far confirmed that the human skeleton is that of a male, and the pathologist has determined that the person received a bullet wound.

Forensic experts are still processing the three skulls and human bones that were found at the scene. According to the police, preliminary investigations suggest that criminal elements have been using the area as an 'execution chamber'.

The police believe that the human remains, including the skeleton, could have been there for at least three months.

"The three skulls were clean, meaning that the bones were dry," said Det. Insp. Clayton Ritchie of the Denham Town Police Station." He noted that other things which could have been used as evidence might have been destroyed by the weather.

"We will be paying more attention to this area," said Superintendent Delroy Hewitt, head of the West Kingston Police Station.

Gruesome find

In September 1997, five bodies, including two headless corpses and two human skulls, were discovered by the police in bushes behind the Tivoli Gardens Comprehensive High School.

The bodies were found in four sealed barrels, about 200 metres west along the train line off Industrial Terrace. Two of the bodies were stuffed in one barrel, while one each was later detected in the other three barrels. The bodies were clad only in underwear. Four of them had their hands bound, the fifth was headless and minus his hands.




<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Yuriatin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe the numbers ARE true! Still the crime has become a disgrace. It's way out of hand. No matter what the figures say. And this is perhaps NOT the worse part. The worse part is that the crime situation is mostly, just a symptom of larger ailments.</div></div>

Let's accept that the numbers are true.
Isn't 1300+ murders and 2000+ plus missing too many for Jamaica?
Out of the 18-year run of this current Government of Jamaica only twice has the numbers been under 1000.
One that score alone should Jamaicans keep asking for more of the same?
</div></div>

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: The Troubles of Sista P

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Yuriatin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Help me with someting Dudd - in all seriousness ...

When it's said that the Jamaican economy has grown by 2% (or whatever the exact figure is - 2.4, 2.1, etc) what does this translate to - how does this affect the man on the ground? How does he feel it, benefit from it - what is it doing for him?

Thanks. </div></div>

I don't usually take the poiint 1s or 4s that serious .
If itis .5 or above than i will. because it can be rounded up,but below .5 is usually drooed foer the sort of situation we are in.
Only if I was involved in developemental growth,then I use the figures,but not usually in general discussion.
incidentally the effect is a very important question.
The government of Cayman has recently concluded an economic convention.The conclusion was that of the enormous growth, not much has not been trickled down to the majority,nor invested in the infrastructure of the country? This is no different in Jamaica. Usually economic growth is not usually equally dispersed in the economy.
As a matter of fact that is most possibly the same in Jamaica.
thereason is that it is 10 times as difficult for money to trickle down,from the big investmenmts,thatb it is to tricle up from welfare payments. the reason is that money is a means of exchange,and the rich always have the goods that the poor arecwiulling to buy,but the rich does not necessarily equally willing to pay the poor,because the poor does nothave more than their skills and labour to exchange for the cash in the hands of the rich.
So economic growth,can and does in many cases result in negative economic benefits to the poor.
as I stated,this may be the case.

[Yuriatin]

Re: The Troubles of Sista P

Just as I thought ... nuttin nah gwhan.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Yuriatin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Help me with someting Dudd - in all seriousness ...

When it's said that the Jamaican economy has grown by 2% (or whatever the exact figure is - 2.4, 2.1, etc) what does this translate to - how does this affect the man on the ground? How does he feel it, benefit from it - what is it doing for him?

Thanks. </div></div>

... Usually economic growth is not usually equally dispersed in the economy ...

... So economic growth, can and does in many cases result in negative economic benefits to the poor ...
</div></div>

[Tuff Gong]

Re: The Troubles of Sista P

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Most don't understand economics,and those who know are bent on fooling them.
growth at 2% per quarter is good. </div></div>

If you are saying 1/4 over 1/4 or even annualized growth, there has to be some comparison with a previous figure. Coming from 6% annually in the 80s and dipping to negative figures for most of the 18 year run of this Government I would be surprised if we are anywhere near first base.

BTW <span style="color: #666666">Orlando</span> said it was 2.4% overall and RJR said 2.1 which is it?
</div></div>

I did not say it. It was the subject of the news report. The report clearly stated for the last quarter.
Those in the know knows that 6% of little in most case is less than 2% of the larger figure.
every well thinking economist thatare familiar with Jamaican economy knows that the figures that are published and the and the value of cnsumption is in conflict.
Anyway i am not going to get tied up in these blatantlyerroneous pronouncements passing as honest analysis,by the misinformation machine bent on keeping their strangle hold on the Jamaican economy even when they see the result is iventual implosion.
Ofcourse,they all have their Permanent US visas or UK citizenship. </div></div>

What are you really saying?

[evanovitch]

Opposition protests latest withdrawal from bauxite fund


Government came under pressure from the Opposition Tuesday over a resolution which will allow the withdrawal of $2.5 billion from the Capital Development Fund (CDF).

Established in 1974, the CDF is funded from the bauxite levy and was set up with a clear mandate to reinvest some of the returns earned from the industry into communities located in the bauxite belt.

Minister of Finance and Planning, Dr. Omar Davies, who moved the resolution in the House of Representatives, said the money was being withdrawn to support the national budget.

However, Opposition members took the Finance Minister to task as they pointed out that the bauxite communities were not benefiting from the levy and that many of them were lacking infrastructural development.

Mr. Smith charged that, for the past four and a half years, the Government has withdrawn almost $10 billion from the CDF and that none of this money has ever been used to fix any road or to build any houses in these communities.

"I am the one who has to face the people out there and all the people are asking is if the Government has no money in the budget, and I ask the same question, 'why can't you use some of the bauxite money and fix the people's roads'," he said.

People blame me

"The people blame me the Member of Parliament and they say that I must find the money. The PNP area leader for a district called Gibraltar told me the other day that I was to sell my house and fix the road," he added to the laughter of members in the House.

Meanwhile, Opposition Leader Bruce Golding suggested a board be appointed to monitor the proceeds of the fund and that a percentage of the levy be dedicated to rehabilitate mined-out bauxite communities.

Dr. Davies called for serious debate on the issue, which he said had degenerated.

"Because all of this discussion is not really about the Capital Development Fund, this is just hustling for individual constituencies! Let us examine the real issues," he said.

The resolution was eventually passed. The withdrawal represents the second pull down from the CDF for this fiscal year.