Isn't it full time now? ENOUGH IS ENOUGH !!

[f0rTyLeGz]

Re: Isn't it full time now? ENOUGH IS ENOUGH !!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: More4us</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I am so fed up wid di leeches dem dat sometimes I feel Jamaica need a good purge to start over again from scratch.
</div></div>These terrible problems I would love to talk about... I ache to talk about. Surely there are some solutions, and positive choices? But just reading your thread makes my guts clench, and I am reminded once again that the days of dialoge are gone from here. It's no longer what you say, but who is saying what. Then come the ad hominums.

Perhaps the lack of respect and comradery here is a small metaphor for what's gone spinning out of control in Jamaica?

[RichD]

Re: Isn't it full time now? ENOUGH IS ENOUGH !!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: f0rTyLeGz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: More4us</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I am so fed up wid di leeches dem dat sometimes I feel Jamaica need a good purge to start over again from scratch.
</div></div>These terrible problems I would love to talk about... I ache to talk about. Surely there are some solutions, and positive choices? But just reading your thread makes my guts clench, and I am reminded once again that the days of dialoge are gone from here. It's no longer what you say, but who is saying what. Then come the ad hominums.

Perhaps the lack of respect and comradery here is a small metaphor for what's gone spinning out of control in Jamaica? </div></div> ah sah....

[johnnycakes]

Re: Isn't it full time now? ENOUGH IS ENOUGH !!

It is not yet time for change in Jamaica.
The people are not yet unhappy enough about conditions in the country and lack the inspiration and charisma required of a Jamaican who can lead the way towards change.

Perhaps it is the experience of Michael Manley who tried in a very small way to make changes and whom was defeated in his efforts by the entrenched power structure and ultimately the Cold war policies of the United States in preventing moves toward the left that now have driven any thought of attempting serious change from a prospective Jamaican leader.
There does seem to be marked despair and a constant reshuffling of the same old deck of cards in trying to come up with a way out of the problems, as said before it's much like rearranging the deck chairs on a sinking ship. Rather than address the cause, it's the symptoms that are constanly being rehashed.

No, the U.N. is not the answer. That's asking someone else to come in and put a lid on a simmering pot. It will work only for a while because martial law suits nobody over a long period of time. After a while the pot will come full boil again.

What is needed is what is most vociferously opposed by those in power and those in favor for a variety of reasons of the status quo: a change from totalitarian democracy run by the two pro-capitalist parties to a grass roots/bottom up and partyless electoral system run by neighborhood-nominated and elected people and not by detached politicians living in ivory towers.
Secondly, there needs to be a change in the economic system which in the past has been violently opposed by the United States and the power elite in Jamaica.
This will not come unless and until Jamaicans themselves have run out of patience and are not just ready but desperate for the necessary change.

When that time arrives Jamaica will find its Fidel Castro, Its George Washington, its Hugo Chavez and the long awaited change for democracy and economic equality will come to Jamaica.

But.... not until Jamaicans themselves get serious about making serious changes, stop the internal squabbling and work together for that change.

It's never easy but violent revolution is not always necessary if what Hugo Chavez has done in Venezuela is considered. It can be done with ballots rather than bullets at least until the U.S Marines show up in Kingston.

[jah_yout]

Re: Isn't it full time now? ENOUGH IS ENOUGH !!

seen, johnny...the u.n. is definitely not the answer;

personally i think jamaica is in serious trouble even though most of us act like 'what, me worry?'...
only the love of the people for the mother can influence a change...not the politicians or blood-thirsty goon squads;
one day i will go shout it out like a madman in the towns...
tell mi people dem seh destruction is on the horizon...

the way i see it no one has yet squared with the jamaican people with real talk...i don't expect the people's narcissistic party or the jamaica liad party to start doing so now...
nuff more blood a guh run before any change come, but all loyal jamaicans who love the mother have a sacred duty...

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Isn't it full time now? ENOUGH IS ENOUGH !!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: More4us</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
TG fi tell yu di trute mi know the mandate of the UN and what dem can and cannot do in various countries but they do have a mandate to keep the peace and be neutral. However they also have the right to DEFEND themselves when under attack as a peace keeping force. I was counting on don man and war lord fi launch attack pan dem in rebellion of the UN presence in the ghetto areas where they commonly corrupt/infest. Tanks and amour galore ready in SELF DEFENSE. </div></div>

You are talking <span style="color: #CC0000">a bag a nonsense</span>!

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Isn't it full time now? ENOUGH IS ENOUGH !!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">seen, johnny...the u.n. is definitely not the answer;

personally i think jamaica is in serious trouble even though most of us act like 'what, me worry?'...
only the love of the people for the mother can influence a change...not the politicians or blood-thirsty goon squads;
one day i will go shout it out like a madman in the towns...
tell mi people dem seh destruction is on the horizon...

the way i see it no one has yet squared with the jamaican people with real talk...i don't expect the people's narcissistic party or the jamaica liad party to start doing so now...
nuff more blood a guh run before any change come, but all loyal jamaicans who love the mother have a sacred duty... </div></div>

So you don't think there is a political solution?
There are only two viable political parties in Jamaica. Jamaicans will get the opportunity soon to make another choice.
That is what we need to be discussing in a rational way...not engaging in mindless verbiage and flights of fantasy.

[johnnycakes]

Re: Isn't it full time now? ENOUGH IS ENOUGH !!

Jah Yout,

The problems are clear for all to see
We can see the symptoms with no problem.
It is when we ask what is the cause, what is the disease that afflicts Jamaican society that things become not-so-clear.

That is because the cure is not to treat the symptoms which in many cases is possible on a one-problem-at-a-time basis but to treat the disease which requires drastic surgery.

The huge change in the way things are done that is required to dramatically lessen the violence, corruption and poverty prevalent in Jamaica is something not many want to admit much less talk about.

Instead we see the media and the people chatting about the PNP or the JLP or this corrupt official or that horrible killing and very carefully avoiding the discussion of changing the electoral and/or economic systems which are at the base of all Jamaica's problems.

It is not whether the JLP or PNP is the lesser of two evils. They are both like fish rotting from the head and you can't do anything with a rotting fish but throw it to the dogs.
Likewise the economic system. Even when a country is poor like Jamaica there are still enough goods and services available to provide a decent life for all. BUT not when the means of distribution of those goods and services are decided by a system that does not and, more importantly, cannot provide living wage jobs for all and will not provide an economic safety net for those who cannot find work

There is enough work to be done in Jamaica and any country so that everyone who wants a job should have one. In Cuba everyone who can, works for the betterment of the society and to provide the goods and services needed for a good life that are provided to EVERY person.

In Jamaica the average income is about $3800.00US per year. In Cuba that figure is $2800.00 per year. BUT.....for that $20.00 per week less
in Cuba every man woman and child gets free school from pre-school and daycare right up to graduate school.
In Cuba every man woman and child gets excellent and free healthcare from the cradle to the grave.
In Cuba no one is homeless.
In Cuba the mentally ill do not roam the streets because there is no money to care for them and because unlike the Jamaican government ,the Cuban government makes it their business to take care of the neediest and helpless.
In Cuba you can walk the streets of Havana and all the other cities of Cuba at night and not fear for your life because there are very few crimes committed for mone. Poverty is not the biggest factor that it is in Jamaican crime.
In Cuba it is not only a right to work but an obligation. It is considered immoral to sit on one's backside instead of contributing to the work needed to provide that decent environment for all.

Just think about the things listed above and ponder why it is that all that is a reality in Cuba and yet Jamaicans only bemoan the often horrible conditions under which they CHOOSE to live.


As the thread title says, Isn't it full time now?

[jah_yout]

Re: Isn't it full time now? ENOUGH IS ENOUGH !!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">seen, johnny...the u.n. is definitely not the answer;

personally i think jamaica is in serious trouble even though most of us act like 'what, me worry?'...
only the love of the people for the mother can influence a change...not the politicians or blood-thirsty goon squads;
one day i will go shout it out like a madman in the towns...
tell mi people dem seh destruction is on the horizon...

the way i see it no one has yet squared with the jamaican people with real talk...i don't expect the people's narcissistic party or the jamaica liad party to start doing so now...
nuff more blood a guh run before any change come, but all loyal jamaicans who love the mother have a sacred duty... </div></div>

So you don't think there is a political solution?
There are only two viable political parties in Jamaica. Jamaicans will get the opportunity soon to make another choice.
That is what we need to be discussing in a rational way...not engaging in mindless verbiage and flights of fantasy.
</div></div>


what is mindless to some is death to me...
yea i said it;
the political parties can't solve the problem cause it runs deeper than that...
a wise man once said how can you get a different result if you keep doing the same thing?
i'll believe it's all about politics when jamaica shows me that bloodthirst is not as jamaican as ackee & codfish...
who taught the people to hate so much that killing is no big deal to so many...
i have an idea although too long for me to write about here, but i do say...
pnp & jlp nah get no props from me because they're a part of the problem not a part of the solution...
they are but two colonial era holdover organizations who continue to run the country with the interests of the elites at heart...certainly not the peoples' interest...

[jah_yout]

Re: Isn't it full time now? ENOUGH IS ENOUGH !!

yea johnny but how many jamaicans are willing to sacrifice in the way that many cubans have?
dem love uncle sam pretty clothes & shoes too much...
some don't want the wrath of america should they choose to break away from the neo-colonial/protectorate status that cuba tried to get away from & is still being squeezed by their blockade & harrasment...
dem always a tell me bout poverty but crime is not ALL about poverty...
when we have a higher murder rate than haiti, there is a problem..

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Isn't it full time now? ENOUGH IS ENOUGH !!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
what is mindless to some is death to me...
yea i said it;
the political parties can't solve the problem cause it runs deeper than that...
a wise man once said how can you get a different result if you keep doing the same thing?
i'll believe it's all about politics when jamaica shows me that bloodthirst is not as jamaican as ackee & codfish...
who taught the people to hate so much that killing is no big deal to so many...
i have an idea although too long for me to write about here, but i do say...
pnp & jlp nah get no props from me because they're a part of the problem not a part of the solution...
they are but two colonial era holdover organizations who continue to run the country with the interests of the elites at heart...certainly not the peoples' interest... </div></div>

Can you show me a better way to deliver goods and services to Jamaica other than through politics?

[Q3210]

Re: Isn't it full time now? ENOUGH IS ENOUGH !!

After all, politics in Jamaica is about Govt. redistribution of wealth created by other forces than govt.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Isn't it full time now? ENOUGH IS ENOUGH !!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Q3210</div><div class="ubbcode-body">After all, politics in Jamaica is about Govt. redistribution of wealth created by other forces than govt. </div></div>
I doubt that is the whole.
I want to know from the folk who abhor politics, is there a better way to operate a civilized society than with Government?

[johnnycakes]

Re: Isn't it full time now? ENOUGH IS ENOUGH !!



Jah Yout posted:

yea johnny but how many jamaicans are willing to sacrifice in the way that many cubans have?
dem love uncle sam pretty clothes & shoes too much...


JC- Well the Cubans seem quite willing to make whatever sacrifices they have in order to keep the free education for all, the free healthcare, dentalcare, mental healthcare for all, no homelessness, and a n early crime-free place in which to live and raise a family. Pretty clothes and shoes are not everything to people with an eye on the important things.
-


JY_ some don't want the wrath of america should they choose to break away from the neo-colonial/protectorate status that cuba tried to get away from & is still being squeezed by their blockade & harrasment..

JC- Ah true but is the wrath feared from the United States any worse that the fear and death that is daily life in Jamaica with the 3rd highest per capita murder rate in the world?. You can walk the streets of Havana unescorted, unarmed at midnight., .


JY- dem always a tell me bout poverty but crime is not ALL about poverty...
when we have a higher murder rate than haiti, there is a problem..

JC- Crime is not ALL about poverty but consider... Cuba has eliminated those things that make life tough when you're poor and they've made Cuba a safe place that is relatively crime-free in a short 50 years. Poverty is not the cause of all crime but it is so far ahead of all other reasons for crime that eliminating poverty or the effects of poverty makes the balance of crime manageable.

[johnnycakes]

Re: Isn't it full time now? ENOUGH IS ENOUGH !!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Q3210</div><div class="ubbcode-body">After all, politics in Jamaica is about Govt. redistribution of wealth created by other forces than govt. </div></div>
I doubt that is the whole.
I want to know from the folk who abhor politics, is there a better way to operate a civilized society than with Government?


Tuff Gong,
Yes and no. At humankind's present state of consciousness, a government is required to take care of things that we as a society cannot do individually or in small family/neighborhood groups.

In the past and until now all we have really known is rule from the top. In the past hundred years or so democracies have degraded to oligarchic plutocracies, that is rule by the rich and powerful in which those not at the top have no effective say in how things are run and for whose benefit.

In effect, the economic totalitarianism that is capitalism has taken over the governmental form that used to be far more democratic and all so-called liberal democracies are now neither liberal nor democratic in practice and are run by and for the rich and powerful.

A more democratically run (bottom-up) economy and government would more equally share the goods and services of any given neo-liberal country

IMO (and I know you disagree with me), we have to move to truly democratic forms in both the economic and electoral areas of our lives in order to bring about any serious change .





Q3210-"After all, politics in Jamaica is about Govt. redistribution of wealth created by other forces than govt."

JC- Right, they take the money from the poor and waste it on projects and loans that go nowhere. The money is redistributed upwards to the lenders and those stealing government money.

</div></div>

[Morpheous]

Re: Isn't it full time now? ENOUGH IS ENOUGH !!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: More4us</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
TG fi tell yu di trute mi know the mandate of the UN and what dem can and cannot do in various countries but they do have a mandate to keep the peace and be neutral. However they also have the right to DEFEND themselves when under attack as a peace keeping force. I was counting on don man and war lord fi launch attack pan dem in rebellion of the UN presence in the ghetto areas where they commonly corrupt/infest. Tanks and amour galore ready in SELF DEFENSE. </div></div>

You are talking <span style="color: #CC0000">a bag a nonsense</span>! </div></div>
I welcome the "bag of nonsense" comment [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif[/img]
I don't mind being called a fool or an idiot either, as long as my stupid comments make the smarter among us such as yourself have a discussion on the subject. [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70409-waytogo.gif[/img]

Maybe I should talk more nonsense to get people to discuss positive ways forward for jamaica [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif[/img]