Too little too late?

[britisha]

Make firm demands, PSOJ


Saturday, May 21, 2005



The call by the Private Sector Organisation of Jamaica (PSOJ) for a shutdowm of businesses this coming Wednesday as a statement by the private sector of its deep concern for the level of crime in Jamaica has the full support of this newspaper.

**aaye sah**

...as some of us here had predicted, when the war gets close to home, then maybe, just maybe some will take notice. Jumping the gun and wondering if the death of the businessman in Clarendon had anything to do with their decision.

In any case, as far as I am concerned, anything that will bring about more awarness as well as send a message to government to implement stronger measures to curb crime, then I say hear hear!!

We are like drowning men clutching at straws, anything to stay afloat now. It's a wonder they'll spare the revenue loss that could result from this, a wonder.

stay tuned..

[britisha]

Re: Too little too late?

Guess that some cannot afford to protest in the true sense of the word. Some biznizzess will be opened even for a part of the day..a half-hearted effort should I say?

Today, starting at 2:00 pm, the PSOJ will hold a protest rally at Emancipation Park in New Kingston, while tomorrow members will gather at Trafalgar Park in Kingston to pay respect to the murdered Jamaicans by laying flowers in their remembrance.

half a loaf is better than no bread

Too little too late?

[britisha]

Re: Too little too late?

Interesting!!

As we became callused and callous the vulgarians crept up. Suddenly it begun to dawn, really dawn, that crime is no longer THEIR problem. It is a Jamaican problem that impacts on all of us.

Sleeping at the wheel again?

[barosa]

Re: Too little too late?

It may well be "too little too late". However, any attempt to mobilised the country in a way to heighten the awareness that crime, especially "violent gun crimes" and robberies have reached unbearable proportions is a welcomed "first start". The fact that the PSOJ is driven to organise this protest, is a signal that they are worried that if nothing is done now, it will soon, be REALLY TOO LATE. The PSOJ, at great cost to its members is to be commended for having the guts to take this stand.

I can't help but be cynical that this will pave the way for a reversal of what has been until now, just like "a run away train" steadily gaining momentum while "administrations" past and present stood by, looking on and did very little or next to nothing. The PSOJ realizes that Jamaica is not a safe place, not even for its own citizens. If that's the case, how will it ever be safe for anyone including foreign investors which Jamaica badly needs?...

When Jamaicans shy away from returning to invest in their own country, What does that tell us?... The "writing has been on the wall" for more than the 15 years of the current "administration". Why has it taken untill now for a hopefully concerted effort by a powerful group?... It is telling, that even before the event begins, Burchel Whiteman the information minister, by his statement has said, that "it is not an anti-government protest as the organisers have made clear". Did he expect them to say it was? What else could it be? Who has been running the country with all the resources and power at its command?

-------------------
The wise man must remember that while he is a descendant of the past, he is a parent of the future. : Herbert Spencer

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Too little too late?

The half-hearted Prada protest is merely in response to the killing of a Big Man or two. In 15 years 14000 + Jamaicans have been killed, thousands more have been reported missing yet no protest by the Prada Brigade.

<ul type="square">[*]The widespread human rights abuse by the State Security apparatus has never bothered the so-called private sector interests. Even in this so-called protest not one word have been mentioned about getting the police and the State to end the abuse of the mainly poor Jamaicans.[*]Not one word by the PSOJ about having the Government pay the police what they deserve.
Not one word about the mountain of debt that Jamaica is in that has caused the State to be all but crippled.[*]Not one word by the PSOJ about the reams of Government corruption, malfeasance and fiduciary irresponsibility.[*]Not one word by the PSOJ about the so-called private sector’s own complicity over the long years in funding the criminal network through bribes and kickbacks.[/list]
The imbedded press and the Prada brigade who have been the beneficiaries (as Ronnie Twit said)

of the most massive transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich, that has ever occurred in the history of Jamaica since slavery was abolished

have now kinda, sorts seen the writing on the wall.

One day (taking liberties with Justin Hinds), everything will crash!

[britisha]

Re: Too little too late?

The half-hearted Prada protest is merely in response to the killing of a Big Man or two. In 15 years 14000 + Jamaicans have been killed, thousands more have been reported missing yet no protest by the Prada Brigade.

...and this is the crux of the matter.

Where were they in 2001 when there was the shootout at Dunkirk..err West Kingston, when bodies of poor people were left rotting in the streets for days? That would've been an opportune moment to voice disgust at the crime wave, but oh noooo!! It was only poor people dying, what does that matter the society at large? Afterall only a few from West Kingston gaawn. So we lap out tails and say that as long as is not me or anybody fi mi, is aawright..well,..thousands more poor people have died because our society couldn't protect them, and will continue until something constructive is done.

Why no protest then?

Why satisfy with the query that came out of this?

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Too little too late?

Prophecy Tuesday, May 10, 2005?

The assassination theory

Lloyd B Smith
Tuesday, May 10, 2005

The nation is in a state of "chronic". Mass hysteria is gaining momentum, so increasingly one is hearing and reading certain emotive outbursts suggesting vengeance, applying scorch-the-earth tactics which embrace net-fishing rather than spear-fishing approaches, blaming dancehall music and the media, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. In a country where vigilante justice is often espoused and the leader of government has maintained that the law ought not to be a shackle, then irrational thinking will lead to even more irrational behaviour. So what we now see unfolding in Jamaica is akin to what was described after the assassination of Julius Caesar... "Judgement has fled to brutish beasts and men have lost their reason..." (William Shakespeare).

Why won't we wake up and face the fact that Jamaica is primarily comprised of various sectoral interests which are more concerned about their respective agendas rather than the national interest? Our politicians when it suits them collectively and individually seek to ensure their safety and privileges; our private-sector moguls do likewise, forever frantically looking at the bottom line; the organised criminals do likewise; so do the churches, not to mention the various cliques and groupings out there, all taken up with their personal and corporate preoccupations.

The only sector in the Jamaican society that does not appear to have a clear-cut and cohesive agenda is the poor, whose only penchant seems to be the killing off of one another, while being manipulated by the Mr Bigs and unscrupulous politicians and their cronies. Like cannon fodder, poor people in this country are exploited at the will of the well-heeled and the powerful. Against this background, there are those Jamaicans, mainly among the poor and middle class who feel helpless because most of them cannot migrate or are in no position to beef up their security so that they can live comfortably amidst the mayhem - far from the madding crowd.

It is in this context that many well-thinking Jamaicans are experiencing a sense of hopelessness and are at a point where they feel that the country is about to descend into total anarchy. In such a scenario, many feel that bringing back the likes of Senior Superintendent Reneto Adams to front-line duty is one effective way to go. Others want the Jamaica Defence Force along with the Jamaica Constabulary Force to go all-out in their attempts to flush out and eliminate the criminal elements in our midst. This would be done in such a manner that would pay scant regard to human rights and would allow in essence the good to suffer for the bad.

But one of the most dangerous propositions being put forward by many Jamaicans in bars, on their verandahs, in taxis and even occasionally on some talk shows, is that not until a well-known politician has been murdered or some top private sector luminary has been made to bite the dust, not until this happens will the government of the day along with the ruling class take the necessary steps to wrest Jamaica from the terrifying grip of organised crime. This is a most chilling thought which has many implications for a society that is already in so much turmoil; what this assassination theory is purporting is that there are two Jamaicas, one for the rich and privileged and the other for the poor and oppressed. It is such a social dichotomy that can set the stage for a revolution similar to what happened in France two centuries ago. Indeed, many Jamaicans have been quietly predicting that it is only a matter of time before the lumpen proletariat awake from its slumber and storm the Bastille.

We continue to fool ourselves if we remain convinced that it is talk-show hosts like Mutty Perkins, dancehall artistes such as Bounty Killer as well as other perceived anti-Establishment elements who are primarily responsible for what ails this "Paradise Lost". Let's stop the blame game and face the music. The fault lies in all of us. It is therefore a serious indictment on the political and private sector leadership of this beleaguered country that the poor man out there feels that the only way justice will prevail is when the "boss get lick". In other words, until the widening gap between the haves and the have-nots has been sufficiently addressed, no matter how many Mark Shields we bring into Jamaica, no matter how many raids and extra-judicial killings are done, and even if a few outspoken journalists are locked up and foul-mouthed deejays are fined and ostracised, Jamaica's worsening socio-economic problems will not be solved. For too long, Nero has fiddled while Rome burns.

[email][email protected]

The assassination theory

Footnote:
Maurice Azan and his stepson Lloyd Phang, were shot during a robbery at Azan's wholesale and supermarket in May Pen on May 14. Azan died that day and Phang two days later. They were shot by a group of heavily-armed men who entered the supermarket and opened fire on the two.

[Wardob]

Re: Too little too late?

The big man theory with respect to Azan is absolutely nonsense, anyone who know Azan, will tell you that there is no big man about him I know that as a fact.

“It may well be "too little too late". However, any attempt to mobilised the country in a way to heighten the awareness that crime, especially "violent gun crimes" and robberies have reached unbearable proportions is a welcomed "first start". The fact that the PSOJ is driven to organise this protest, is a signal that they are worried that if nothing is done now, it will soon, be REALLY TOO LATE. The PSOJ, at great cost to its members is to be commended for having the guts to take this stand”………Barosa.

Well said ……………….
.
What is wrong with them saying enough is enough? The human display of unity and strength in the fight against crime to me is right thing to do it’s much better that fighting crime by the pen. I have only one quarrel with them, although I am more comfortable with their lateness (if they are) I disappointed in them declaring to the Government that the protest is none political. Government of Jamaica past and present listen to nothing other that that which affect them been in power we were told that by Ms. Maxine not too long ago. The fear of loosing such a power is what driving them to be fanning out all across the Country school of Minster and Junior Ministers , who at every pit stop telling us their new discovery ,what the needs of the young people are, and lacking there of is what fueling crime.

The PSOJ as a body have never been an accomplice “funding criminal network through bribes and kick back”. Like any organization, individual members may or may not be a part of any such act and therefore the body (PSOJ) should not and cannot be held responsible. However if the PSOJ is guilty as stated ,then it seems to me a change of course which is now happening is the right thing to do.

All the talk about politicians been involved in criminal activity, no one have yet to come forward and point a finger. But I cannot blame people like Lloyd Smith and member of the public for writing and speaking without proof since even the Minister of National Security, as he too have been “dropping his words” stopped short of telling us who they are, even under the protection of Parliament .

May Azan and Phang rest in peace and if and when the murders are caught, they be given a speed trial and after conviction (if any) I say they be hung just as fast if not faster than their trial wit a greaseless rope. Dam Amnesty International .!!!!

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Too little too late?

Originally posted by Wardob:
[qb] The big man theory with respect to Azan is absolutely nonsense, anyone who know Azan, will tell you that there is no big man about him I know that as a fact.[/qb]

Really, if you are saying that then you could not be Jamaican because you know that the big man term is not about how you act but who you are.

Mr. Azan was in every sense of the word a Big Man you should have heard an account I just heard on the radio, of how he was treated when he was rushed to hospital after being shot compared to other little man and little woman Jamaicans who were waiting on treatment.

[Wardob]

Re: Too little too late?

“Really, if you are saying that then you could not be Jamaican because you know that the big man term is not about how you act but who you are.”………..Tuff

Why judge a person by who they are? Who is he anyway? Is he been judged by the name AZAN? What name should he have so as not to be judged unfavorable? When are we going to see all Jamaicans as Jamaicans, cares not what status in life they are?
A person’s action and character is of most important to me than their name, color, religion or the amount of earthly wealth they posses.
This was a man I know of good character and by his works I would say indeed he was good man not a big man.

“Mr. Azan was in every sense of the word a Big Man you should have heard an account I just heard on the radio, of how he was treated when he was rushed to hospital after being shot compared to other little man and little woman Jamaicans who were waiting on treatment.”…………….. Tuff

And so that treatment was because he was a big man? I am certain some low life murder have been granted the same privilege as he, as a matter of fact due to the nature of injuries that were inflected upon one I know some years he was given what I believe was similar attention as was given to Mr. Azan, now should he be call a big man? Oh heck no, that would make a mockery of the word “man”

I believe Hospitals and Dr. have a sworn duty and generally act in accordance with good medical practice, to save lives and given professional care. If Azan’s injuries were seen as life threatened (We now know they were) they (Hospital and Dr.) would and had responded accordingly.
Emergency treatment should not be seen as preferential treatment, maybe the callers to the radio show does not know the difference, so they do what comes naturally to them, complain, and why not? They have nothing else to do

Nuff said...............

[evanovitch]

Re: Too little too late?

Originally posted by Wardob:
[qb] “Really, if you are saying that then you could not be Jamaican because you know that the big man term is not about how you act but who you are.”………..Tuff

Why judge a person by who they are? Who is he anyway? Is he been judged by the name AZAN? What name should he have so as not to be judged unfavorable? When are we going to see all Jamaicans as Jamaicans, cares not what status in life they are?
A person’s action and character is of most important to me than their name, color, religion or the amount of earthly wealth they posses.
This was a man I know of good character and by his works I would say indeed he was good man not a big man.

“Mr. Azan was in every sense of the word a Big Man you should have heard an account I just heard on the radio, of how he was treated when he was rushed to hospital after being shot compared to other little man and little woman Jamaicans who were waiting on treatment.”…………….. Tuff

And so that treatment was because he was a big man? I am certain some low life murder have been granted the same privilege as he, as a matter of fact due to the nature of injuries that were inflected upon one I know some years he was given what I believe was similar attention as was given to Mr. Azan, now should he be call a big man? Oh heck no, that would make a mockery of the word “man”

I believe Hospitals and Dr. have a sworn duty and generally act in accordance with good medical practice, to save lives and given professional care. If Azan’s injuries were seen as life threatened (We now know they were) they (Hospital and Dr.) would and had responded accordingly.
Emergency treatment should not be seen as preferential treatment, maybe the callers to the radio show does not know the difference, so they do what comes naturally to them, complain, and why not? They have nothing else to do

Nuff said............... [/qb]

bwoy mi fren, u eida is a farrina or u a dream bout life as u would want it to be in reality a yaad

mi sarry but mi haffi laff wen mi read weh u seh bout treatment a hospital....mi can memba going to one wid a worker from a studio who got shot and the fuss ting mi had was fi produce was a blank cheque fi guarentee payment

low life as u cawl it no get fi go hospital....matter of fact, dem body stay pon roadside till it get collek, wateva time....mi can memba wen docta climb up eena police big truck fi check seh man an man dead an upon finding one still alive, had said police run go morgue fi one body dem neva boda carry come but ketch dem fraid since dis one did tun out to be alive

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Too little too late?

[qb]Originally posted by Wardob:

Why judge a person by who they are? Who is he anyway? Is he been judged by the name AZAN? What name should he have so as not to be judged unfavorable? When are we going to see all Jamaicans as Jamaicans, cares not what status in life they are?[/qb]

We are talking about Jamaica, just in case you do not know, race, class and status are still very much in vogue.

Your line of reasoning smacks of ignorance of recent events either that or you are been very dishonest, because it was only when the Big Man get lick that you heard stirrings for the so-called private sector.

The Prada Posse did nothing or said nothing before Mr. Azan's murder. Not that they have done a whole lot that is useful since then but at least they were prepared to disturb to alter their separate themselves from their collective heads in the sand stance for a few hours to hold a drive-by rally at Penis Park.

[qb]A person’s action and character is of most important to me than their name, color, religion or the amount of earthly wealth they posses.
This was a man I know of good character and by his works I would say indeed he was good man not a big man.[/qb]

Great but we are Jamaicans and any Jamaican born and raised in Jamaica knows that even a poor Azan is a so-called big man.

{“Mr. Azan was in every sense of the word a Big Man you should have heard an account I just heard on the radio, of how he was treated when he was rushed to hospital after being shot compared to other little man and little woman Jamaicans who were waiting on treatment.”…………….. Tuff}

[qb]And so that treatment was because he was a big man?[/qb]

Precisely, I taped the program. A lady, who said she was an eyewitness and what more sounded very credible, gave an account of scene at the hospital on the day the two Big Men arrived.

[qb]I am certain some low life murder have been granted the same privilege as he, as a matter of fact due to the nature of injuries that were inflected upon one I know some years he was given what I believe was similar attention as was given to Mr. Azan, now should he be call a big man? Oh heck no, that would make a mockery of the word “man”[/qb][ QUOTE ]


Question did the hospital know he was a low-life murderer? I happen to know that persons shot by the police have in some cases been treated very poorly.
Anyway the lady did not mention a low life murder but she did say a little rastaman who broke his leg in an vechicular accident was sent home with his leg not put in a cast because he could not afford to pay for the cast.

[ QUOTE ]
[qb[I believe Hospitals and Dr. have a sworn duty and generally act in accordance with good medical practice, to save lives and given professional care. If Azan’s injuries were seen as life threatened (We now know they were) they (Hospital and Dr.) would and had responded accordingly.
Emergency treatment should not be seen as preferential treatment, maybe the callers to the radio show does not know the difference, so they do what comes naturally to them, complain, and why not? They have nothing else to do

Nuff said............... [/qb]

Of course it is nuff said....nuff [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] said.
The lady was very lucid and recognized that Mr. Azan and Mr. Phang should be treated as soon as possible, but you need to here her account of how they at first refused to budge, but when they heard it was an Azan the script was flipped and doctors were even seen pushing the bed.
Maybe I should upload the file so you can hear it, but I bet you are so wrapped up in what you think that is would not change a single thing that you written above.

[britisha]

Re: Too little too late?

...ahhhh, let us keep a cool head on this one and agree to disagree..maybe someone could give a definition of a "big man/ooman" in Jamaican context.

Warrie, one cannot but imagine why this rally was called, and the timing of it. I hear you 'loud and clear' that any start is a start, considering the deluge of crime that is engulfing our little nation.

The fact that sooo many people, at home [mek a few calls] and abroad are asking why it took them so long, and could it be because of the death of a "business man," a good man, a man whom many knew as a "kind man" is not farfetched.

As I have said ad infinitum, Jamaica is a multi-tiered society, one divided into haves and have nots and the in between is a known fact..disparity in treatment in every facet of life dere is the norm. Surely many will capitalise on this FACT to bring about an awareness as well at this time to such disparity and even HI-PO-Cro-see..mi noh si nutt'n wrang wid dat.The time has come the walrus said to speak of many things..

NOTA BENE...there were members of the police force who were murdered days before, black members of the force and not a peep was grunted with reference to a rally..if it was, then I beg to retract. [To] the point of sounding redundant, we have said here from time [imm]memorial, NOTHING WILL BE DONE, NOTHING CONSTRUCTIVELY, until members of the elite.."elite" as being a position thrusted upon some, as per Jamaican parlance and recognition, are affected by the scourge.

[Agen] nothing was done when there was abuse of the civil rights of poor people in West Kingston in the year 2001...if this wasn't a time to march and protest, then there wasn't any other....but agen, it is a matter of WHO was murdered and WHERE they came from.....the marginalised, the poor, the voiceless, the "have nots;" a neigbourhood/constituency under seige for daysss; IMO many who were recognised by politrixians only for their votes..not a peep about "enuff is enuff" No talk of rally agenst crime by the upper-ups. Why?????

The recent shooting up of Cross Roads police station imo is the climax that should have prompted such a call for restoration of some semblance of ORDER and civility, since as the PM hinted this is an attack on the state, "terrorism." But there was terrorism from waay back, when the rights of some of our poor black brothers and sisters were snuffed out because of political tribalism, because they exercised their God given rights to affiliate themselves with certain "parties."

Had they done so, maybe, jus maybe, the murders in Maypen would not have occurred...and I am not blaming anyone here, juss soliloquising; mi cyaan cry ovah spilt milk...but the laxity, the foot dragging, the silence, the turning of the head the other way, di mek dem tan deh, di is nat mi, di is nat nobaddie fi mi, the importation of illegal guns by many in high-er places the injustices, di dis and di dat are finally bringing the chickens home to roost..too little too late?

Ooono have a nice day and walk good.

[britisha]

Re: Too little too late?

beg oon read, "when the LIVES of some of our poor black brothers.." ta.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Too little too late?

Already a waffle or wiggle room?

[qb]Fri May 27, 2005
PSOJ could extend June deadline for declarations

The Private Sector Organisation of Jamaica, PSOJ, says it is not averse to extending the June 15 deadline for Members of Parliament to publicly dissociate themselves from gunmen and other criminal elements.
Responding to reports that some MP's want more time to review the proposal, PSOJ President Beverly Lopez says the matter may be considered.

However, Mrs. Lopez says MP's seeking extra time will have to give good reason.

As part of the Emancipation Park Declaration, the PSOJ wants all 60 Members of Parliament to publicly declare in writing by June 15 that they will disassociate themselves from gunmen and from giving financial support to criminal elements.

And its now confirmed that Prime Minister P.J. Patterson is to meet with representatives of private sector groups on Monday to discuss their anti-crime proposals.

The Private Sector Organization of Jamaica had asked that the meeting with the Prime Minister be held Friday.

But Thursday night the Organization's President Beverly Lopez said the meeting will take place Monday afternoon at 4 at Jamaica House.

It's expected that among the issues to be discussed will be the establishment of a police oversight committee to monitor and report on law enforcement efforts and recommendations to improve the country's judicial system.

PSOJ could extend June deadline for declarations