Death in Tivoli

[sistactry]

Re: Death in Tivoli

[img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img]

Baker, would you mind telling us folks what the heck you're talking about,

who drown who, and why??? a folk tale??

whats the inference??

[niceniss]

Re: Death in Tivoli

I should have read this thread a long time ago. k, I'll do so now...

[niceniss]

Re: Death in Tivoli

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Q3210</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Word out is that the police went in for a most wanted who was involved in the murder of a police officer. Dudus is not involved in this.
There was a big dance over the week end and baby Cris was said to be there with his dogs and the police went in for him.
Seems that they didn`t get him.

To go in and combat the people is not the way to apprehend a suspect any way you look at it. 5 lives taken like a life is nothing at all is one of the causes that police cannot gain respect and confidence from the people on the ground.
Their hostile way of peace-keeping goes against everything that a civil society needs to be maintained.
All they do now is to create hate and division.

No wonder Desmond McKenzie brushed sentiments aside and said the police were only doing their work, because they were going in for this wanted police killer. </div></div>

I'm quite dissapointed in these people who have been charged to govern. How the hell can Mckenzie look past the killings and say they're just doing their job? Is their job to committ extra-judicial killing?

[niceniss]

Re: Death in Tivoli

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Littleman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Q3210</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SistaCtry</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> "It seems they (the dead men) were acting as decoys and started shooting at us to give the wanted men time to escape," one cop said.

Q - what you think bout this??? </div></div>

Rubbish! What a flimsy excuse! Those 5 men had no value for martyrdom just yet.
Better the cop kept his mouth shut.
Who in their right senses would act as a live duck with all those Elmo Fudd`s of policemen lurking around with helicopters and foot soldiers? </div></div>

Littleman says:
<span style="color: #660000">I myself have heard rumours of those men who were killed as being decoys. It is nothing, in these areas, for the people there to be used as 'human shields', where women, and old people are allowed to go into the 'line of fire' so as to prevent the apprehension, or killing of gunmen.
In places as Tivoli there is a discipline, where if one is not at a meeting, you'd better have good reason not to be there(I learned that from a JLP-member I knew who is now deceased, by natural causes of course). The gunmen there are well-trained in marksmanship, and have a leadership hierarchy. <span style='font-size: 11pt'>It is the 'underlings' who sacrifice themselves so the 'bosses' can flee to live another day.</span>
Disclaimer: Don't believe a damn word I just wrote here!!!
I am just another know-it-all!!! </span>[img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/desdentado.gif[/img] </div></div>

who came up with this "Human shield" nonsence? I bet it's some pnp idiot in the media. [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rolleyes.gif[/img]
bout "human sheild" :kissteet:

[niceniss]

Re: Death in Tivoli



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SistaCtry</div><div class="ubbcode-body">thats a pretty awful site, **mek sign of the cross** </div></div>

It's also a site that says the shots were being fired in not out.

police culpable.

[niceniss]

Re: Death in Tivoli

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">this made me laff

letter <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dear Editor,

Under the headline, Tivoli inquest, the Observer of January 17 had a photograph showing the bullet pock marks near the window of a building that was the target of recent police operations in Tivoli Gardens.

I would like Police Commissioner Lewin to know that if the police and military are going to be shooting at a window and miss the window several times, only to hit the wall, they are going to be hitting people on the street whom they did not target. That is bad news for the public.

I advise the commissioner to immediately equip the rifles with rifle scopes so that even the poorest shot can hit a window.
I am all for the "shotta" stopping the bullet, but not an innocent bystander.



</div></div> </div></div>

it's amazing.

sometimes we become so accustom to ish that we no longer recognize the smell.

is shooting at a window an effective way of dealing with a suspect? who are the occupants, does the police know?

[Q3210]

Re: Death in Tivoli

We wait the outcome of inquiry including post morterm/ autopsy.

Cant understand how Hardley got the Commish job.

[bee_bop]

Re: Death in Tivoli

Donnika said:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I'm quite dissapointed in these people who have been charged to govern. How the hell can Mckenzie look past the killings and say they're just doing their job? Is their job to committ extra-judicial killing?</div></div>

Littleman said:
<span style="color: #660000">How do you know that these killings were extra-judicial? Were you there?</span>

Donnika said:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Originally Posted By: SistaCtry
thats a pretty awful site, **mek sign of the cross**</div></div>


It's also a site that says the shots were being fired in not out.

police culpable.

Littleman says:
<span style="color: #660000">Any evidence of shots being fired from inside the building wouldn't be found on the wall of the building...
Then you continue by claiming that the police are culpable !!!
If you were a juror in a court case against me, I would be afraid of you...</span>

Donnika said:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> it's amazing.

sometimes we become so accustom to ish that we no longer recognize the smell.

is shooting at a window an effective way of dealing with a suspect? who are the occupants, does the police know?
</div></div>

Littleman says:
<span style="color: #660000">You seem to be relating to people here that you are aware of the effects of the familiarity with the smell of ish...it seems that you speak from experience???

If someone is shooting from a window, and endangering the lives of people outside in the line of fire, then one would use common sense and assume that returning fire towards the window is one way of dealing with it...the other way is to make yourself into a nice target, and stand in the line of fire...assuming that you took leave of your senses !!!

Basically, you weren't there, so you like everyone else (myself included) are merely speculating...how you arrive at the decision to fire people based on mere speculation is beyond me (in fact it is beyond rational reasoning)...</span>

Maybe those police, and soldiers, should simply be not showing interest in their duties towards a thankless society that owes its present stability to their willingness to put themselves in the line of fire, and to endanger themselves.
<span style='font-size: 11pt'>Maybe you could do better, and could probably volunteer yourself to crime prevention, and put yourself in harm's way. Each day one of those security forces members go to work, it is with the strong likelyhood that they will not return home to their loved ones at the end of the day.</span> Yet without their presence others would not be able to go home to their loved ones either, or people would have to be crouch-running through streets, or be shot-at with impunity as they go about their daily business.
The police made it clear that they went to Tivoli to apprehend the leader of the Stone Crusher Crew leader, after capturing him. Yet the people in Tivoli knew this, before any announcement was made, is it that Tivoli is a base for criminals? I know someone who described Tivoli as a fortress, decades ago. I personally knew another person who told me that he was offered guns, while he was out of work, and looking for a job, by people who claimed to be of the JLP. This guy also had ties with Tivoli, he did everything possible to avoid becoming a gunman...
<span style='font-size: 14pt'>Maybe there are criminal police, and I have heard of a lot of cases of alleged police brutality, but that is for a court of law, or a Commission of Inquiry to deal with. There are law-abiding police who live in constant danger, without thought for their own personal safety, who sometimes pay the ultimate price...would you be willing to do the same ??? If not then....</span>

[niceniss]

Re: Death in Tivoli

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Littleman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Donnika said:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I'm quite dissapointed in these people who have been charged to govern. How the hell can Mckenzie look past the killings and say they're just doing their job? Is their job to committ extra-judicial killing?</div></div>

Littleman said:
<span style="color: #660000">How do you know that these killings were extra-judicial? Were you there?</span> </div></div>

are you dense? Were the men charged, tried, convicted and sentenced to death? otherwise, killing them without bringing them into the judicial process is by definition extra-judicial.

[niceniss]

Re: Death in Tivoli

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Littleman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Donnika said:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Originally Posted By: SistaCtry
thats a pretty awful site, **mek sign of the cross**</div></div>


It's also a site that says the shots were being fired in not out.

police culpable.

Littleman says:
<span style="color: #660000">Any evidence of shots being fired from inside the building wouldn't be found on the wall of the building...
Then you continue by claiming that the police are culpable !!!
If you were a juror in a court case against me, I would be afraid of you...</span>

</div></div> if shots were being fired from within the building windows would be blown out or have holes with perferated edges outward. Unless the would-be shooters from within were complete idiots, there would have been no holes in the concrete wall(which since there were no through holes, could have bounce bullets around the room). [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif[/img]

[niceniss]

Re: Death in Tivoli

I can't possibly respond to the rest of your post it was way too nonsensical. [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70392-silly.gif[/img]

[praktful]

Re: Death in Tivoli

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Donnika</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can't possibly respond to the rest of your post it was way too nonsensical. [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70392-silly.gif[/img] </div></div>

You are so mean [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70392-silly.gif[/img]

[bee_bop]

Re: Death in Tivoli

Donnika said:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">are you dense? Were the men charged, tried, convicted and sentenced to death? otherwise, killing them without bringing them into the judicial process is by definition extra-judicial </div></div>

Littleman says:
<span style="color: #660000">Look who's calling who dense...if that icon that you use on your posts reflect what you consider to be your most important features, then I can understand your response, and the lack of commonsense therein...

<span style='font-size: 11pt'>Have you ever heard of people being charged, tried, and convicted before being shot in a gunfight???</span> There was an allegation of an exchange of gunfire, during which a soldier, and a policeman were shot and injured...
You must live outside of Jamaica, and haven't visited for a very long time, speaking from the perspective of someone who only knows experiences of safety.</span>

[bee_bop]

Re: Death in Tivoli

Donnika said:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> if shots were being fired from within the building windows would be blown out or have holes with perferated edges outward. Unless the would-be shooters from within were complete idiots, there would have been no holes in the concrete wall(which since there were no through holes, could have bounce bullets around the room). </div></div>

Littleman says:
<span style="color: #660000">So now you assume that the alleged gunmen share something in common with yourself, i.e. <span style='font-size: 11pt'>idiocy</span> !!!
Why would they shoot from inside to cause bullet holes in the windows with perforated edges outward ??? That would imply that they would fire into the windows to shoot someone outside, would you do that??? I hope not, because that just took your IQ down a few hundred notches!!!
I have never fired a gun, and if I did, would have enough sense to shoot through <span style='font-size: 14pt'>openings</span> in the window(such as slats, or broken windows, etc.), not through the opaque window itself!!!
I hope the word <span style='font-size: 11pt'>'opaque'</span> isn't too difficult for you, if so, it means one cannot see through the window, or it isn't transparent!!!</span>

[bee_bop]

Re: Death in Tivoli

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Donnika</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can't possibly respond to the rest of your post it was way too nonsensical. [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70392-silly.gif[/img] </div></div>

Littleman says:
<span style="color: #660000">Oh you're too kind, are you trying to spare me the agony of reading foolishness???
Or, maybe because you think with what you sit on, you have just exceeded your capacity for reason!!! I noticed your icon emphasizes this over-glorified part of the anatomy.</span> [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/whatever.gif[/img]