Michael Manley - Died 11yrs ago today

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Michael Manley - Died 11yrs ago today

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: johnnycakes</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">r.i.p. to joshua;

they won't realize what this man tried to do for another 20 years </div></div>

Ah true jah yout,
And sadly those that sold out Manley and Jamaica's only big chance for change in its post-colonial history that would have prevented today's raging murders and Jamaica's downhill economic slide will still be cursing him and calling him the devil for another twenty years. </div></div>

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">LOL</span>!

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Michael Manley - Died 11yrs ago today

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Littleman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <span style="color: #660000">Manley was really a good influence on Jamaica, when I look back and remember the before and after, I realise he brought a lot of dignity to Jamaica, and Jamaicans. </span></div></div>

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">?</span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Littleman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="color: #660000"> With all the sabotage, and subversion, that Jamaica has endured; the rich taking their money away, and closing down companies in an economic scorched-earth practice. They could have stood their ground, and worked to see a common good, but no this was not to be.</span></div></div>

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">??</span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Littleman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <span style="color: #660000">It must be remembered too that it was Patterson who initiated a lot of developments we are seeing now in Jamaica.</span> </div></div>

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">???</span>

[Tuff Gong]

Re: RIP Mr Manley

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jah_yout</div><div class="ubbcode-body">r.i.p. to joshua;

they won't realize what this man tried to do for another 20 years </div></div>

LOL!
No they won't.
<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">You got that right!</span>

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Michael Manley - Died 11yrs ago today

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Curmudgeon_Milo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I always did think that Mr. Manley had a great love for the people of Jamaica.</div></div>

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">?</span>

[Tuff Gong]

Re: RIP Mr Manley

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">aaah sah, hiff wan should really talk what they know... </div></div>

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Briti</span> have you ever met Mr. Michael Manley?
I have, I said it on here many times.
I pinched his flesh and was supposed to present him with a Peanut dish I made in art class. I did give him the dish but was so choked up in his presence that I could not get a word out.

After I was grown up a little I went to some of his speeches, down town, all bout where he harangue against other Jamaicans, most the same shade as he was.
In 1977 I wrote a poem called 1977 I Man Free <span style="font-style: italic">(co-written with two of my teachers in Summer School who supplied the title and encouraged...err forced me to perform it against my shyness at the closing concert of the Summer school)</span>.
It struck out against the condition of the day, against the Government of the day, against my Party and mostly against Michael Menlie a corrupted, evil leader than used racist/shadiest views to divide Jamaicans.

Here is a a man who politicized every aspect of Governance in Jamaica, who never did anything unless there was a political price attached to it in favour of his Party.

There is man who stood by and armed Jamaicans against themselves.

Watched from a distance while whole neighbourhoods were violently wiped out and babies and old ladies thrown back into the fire.

Rest in Peace Don Menlie and may your soul escape the fires you lit for other Jamaican Citizens.

[neutral]

Re: RIP Mr Manley

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">aaah sah, hiff wan should really talk what they know... </div></div>

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Briti</span> have you ever met Mr. Michael Manley?
I have, I said it on here many times.
I pinched his flesh and was supposed to present him with a Peanut dish I made in art class. I did give him the dish but was so choked up in his presence that I could not get a word out.

After I was grown up a little I went to some of his speeches, down town, all bout where he harangue against other Jamaicans, most the same shade as he was.
In 1977 I wrote a poem called 1977 I Man Free <span style="font-style: italic">(co-written with two of my teachers in Summer School who supplied the title and encouraged...err forced me to perform it against my shyness at the closing concert of the Summer school)</span>.
It struck out against the condition of the day, against the Government of the day, against my Party and mostly against Michael Menlie a corrupted, evil leader than used racist/shadiest views to divide Jamaicans.

Here is a a man who politicized every aspect of Governance in Jamaica, who never did anything unless there was a political price attached to it in favour of his Party.

There is man who stood by and armed Jamaicans against themselves.

Watched from a distance while whole neighbourhoods were violently wiped out and babies and old ladies thrown back into the fire.

Rest in Peace Don Menlie and may your soul escape the fires you lit for other Jamaican Citizens.
</div></div>


Pretty strong stuff tuffgong,I`ve never met mr manley personally but I did attend a rally of his in mobay,and I was also present when he brokered a truce between warring factions in mobay.
I think it was 1972 that he won the election and it`s a day I will never forget,we danced in the streets,and it was non stop celebrations in mobay for two days straight.
I`ve never voted in Jamaica as I left before the legal age for voting,but all my family have always voted PNP and as a boy to me it was unthinkable to even consider rooting for the other side,the PNP was THE only party to vote for,and manley was our knight in shining armour.

It`s funny but I`ve always thought manley epitomised the spirit of jamaica,and was a man of the people who spoke for the common man,...I understand his little foray into socialism,and I also understand that once he started down that road he came up against the might of the USA.

When manley passed away I phoned my mom and we both agreed that it was indeed the end of an era,....let`s put aside his impropriety whilst in office for a bit,..personally I think that when manley died the political landscape vastly changed in JA,...everyone(prime minister) that has come since have been insignificant in comparison,...with the exception of seaga who can also be considered a big beast of jamaican politics but much further down the foodchain.

The things you say of manley I`ve not heard many jamaicans say,and I am not disputing what you say,or know,because you obviously know much more than I politically,...but it would be interesting to hear in more detail about his attempts to divide jamaica.

[britisha]

Re: RIP Mr Manley

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: britisha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">aaah sah, hiff wan should really talk what they know... </div></div>

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Briti</span> have you ever met Mr. Michael Manley?
I have, I said it on here many times.

I pinched his flesh and was supposed to present him with a Peanut dish I made in art class. I did give him the dish but was so choked up in his presence that I could not get a word out.

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;end
</div></div>

No TG, I've never met Michael personally other than at some meetings he gave here, shook hands.

edit edit edit...naah talk, mi noh know who read these boards...but wha mi heard did frighten mi..

[Tuff Gong]

Re: RIP Mr Manley

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: neutral</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I`ve never met mr manley personally but I did attend a rally of his in mobay,and I was also present when he brokered a truce between warring factions in mobay.</div></div>

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">The Tribals</span>!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: neutral</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It`s funny but I`ve always thought manley epitomised the spirit of jamaica,and was a man of the people who spoke for the common man,...I understand his little foray into socialism,and I also understand that once he started down that road he came up against the might of the USA.</div></div>

You check all his speechs if you can find them prior to 1974 when he declared Socilism. He was already attcaking the USA, Already attacking the so-called 21 families of Jamaica and aleady using racist/shadist attcks on other Jamaicans.

When he won thugs invaded other Jamaicans homes using the catch phrase better must come. So the well established line that it was his declaration of Socialism and the expected backlash from the USA that caused him to fail <span style="font-style: italic">(you did not say that, but I think I can extend the conclusion to that end)</span> is pure, unadulterated bunk.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: neutral</div><div class="ubbcode-body">let`s put aside his impropriety whilst in office for a bit,..personally I think that when manley died the political landscape vastly changed in JA,...everyone(prime minister) that has come since have been insignificant in comparison,...</div></div>

Actually it was not an impropriety to that can be devorced from his persona for one second because he/his Government was the single most destructive person/period in Jamaican history post-Independence and there is not one sucessful programme that he can lay claim to other than the Bauxite Levy and Consoladated Fund <span style="font-style: italic">(which though good in intent was nothing more than the means by which the corruption was paid for)</span>.

The best Prime Minster/Period in Jamaican history Post Independence, removing all emotional quotients from the equation was the man/the Government preceding his. Obviously if the measure is based on emotions and judge in the court of public opinion, Menlie wins hands down.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: neutral</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The things you say of manley I`ve not heard many jamaicans say,and I am not disputing what you say,or know,because you obviously know much more than I politically,...but it would be interesting to hear in more detail about his attempts to divide jamaica. </div></div>

Yes the victors can invent their own interpretation of history and with the streak of victory earned by the PNP they had the wherewithal to whitewash history to a degree that not even when the bare facts is presented their version suffered not one negative defect.

As to my knowledge there is absolutely no need to rely on my reflections because they are on an individual’s and virtually impossible to prove.
No the charges I laid out against Menlie are of the kind established in legal fora, where the man himself at appeared at least once and gave evidence.

[Wahalla]

Re: RIP Mr Manley

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The best Prime Minster/Period in Jamaican history Post Independence, removing all emotional quotients from the equation was the man/the Government preceding his. Obviously if the measure is based on emotions and judge in the court of public opinion, Menlie wins hands down. </div></div>

Disagree the best Prime Minister was Sangster.. imho..Shearer was holding.. he made few changes.. But he did no extra harm...

[Tuff Gong]

Re: RIP Mr Manley

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The best Prime Minster/Period in Jamaican history Post Independence, removing all emotional quotients from the equation was the man/the Government preceding his. Obviously if the measure is based on emotions and judge in the court of public opinion, Menlie wins hands down. </div></div>

Disagree the best Prime Minister was Sangster.. imho..Shearer was holding.. he made few changes.. But he did no extra harm... </div></div>By stats it says it was the period during which Mr. Shearer was Prime Minister the country grew 6% per annum.

[britisha]

Re: RIP Mr Manley

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The best Prime Minster/Period in Jamaican history Post Independence, removing all emotional quotients from the equation was the man/the Government preceding his. Obviously if the measure is based on emotions and judge in the court of public opinion, Menlie wins hands down. </div></div>

Disagree the best Prime Minister was Sangster.. imho..Shearer was holding.. he made few changes.. But he did no extra harm... </div></div>By stats it says it was the period during which Mr. Shearer was Prime Minister the country grew 6% per annum. </div></div>

When Shearer died, I was in Jamaica...so many accolades from both camps. In fact PJ said that he was not only a great trade unionist, but a great politician.


Was made to understand that more schools were built under his administration than any other, and he kept every political campaign promise to the people, to build schools etc.


They lauded him as a great man.

Sangster was too much of gentleman to be a politician, but then, he was not the only one...we had some better guys in days gone by.

[Wahalla]

Re: RIP Mr Manley

my understanding is that Sangster was the power behind Busta(Busta was aproaching senility and he a mere rubber stamp of Sangsters) Sangster put in place alot of the structures/ policies that led to the Shearer surge.

There were issues under shearer that he should have addressed that would not have polierised our society to the extent it did.. The banning books, the Rodney incident... the fact he produced the first special squad that was developed to be mariginally legal.. The mobile reserve... Had he dealt with the issue of Rasta and race more sensibly Manley could not have hijacked the issue to the extent he did....

this does not excuse what Manley did.. In my eyes a lot of his gestures was he was enamoured with the idea he wanted to be the Castro of Jamaica... He lacked gravitas to pull it off and he lacked a paper puppet such as Batista so he he verbal created or subverted ideas in socieuty...

As I recall one of the ideas that Manley cllaimed as his with great fan-fare land-lease was a simple extention of a smaller project that had been started by Sangster..

I read somewhere recently that shearer was really Bustas son from the otehr side of the blanket... The version I had heard was he related to lady B,,

[Tuff Gong]

Re: RIP Mr Manley

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">my understanding is that Sangster was the power behind Busta(Busta was aproaching senility and he a mere rubber stamp of Sangsters) Sangster put in place alot of the structures/ policies that led to the Shearer surge.

There were issues under shearer that he should have addressed that would not have polierised our society to the extent it did.. The banning books, the Rodney incident... the fact he produced the first special squad that was developed to be mariginally legal.. The mobile reserve... Had he dealt with the issue of Rasta and race more sensibly Manley could not have hijacked the issue to the extent he did....

this does not excuse what Manley did.. In my eyes a lot of his gestures was he was enamoured with the idea he wanted to be the Castro of Jamaica... He lacked gravitas to pull it off and he lacked a paper puppet such as Batista so he he verbal created or subverted ideas in socieuty...

As I recall one of the ideas that Manley cllaimed as his with great fan-fare land-lease was a simple extention of a smaller project that had been started by Sangster..

I read somewhere recently that shearer was really Bustas son from the otehr side of the blanket... The version I had heard was he related to lady B,, </div></div>

I should pay you the respect and take each question separately but the Board is slow today, I will make a few observations.
It did not matter what Hugh Shearer sought to do, the PNP was good at spinning the facts and using it to damage every JLP Leader since Bustamante. Hugh Shearer would not have fared any better if he built a Camp for Rastas on the Lawn of Kings House.

The Rastas were treated badly under every Government since Black Power and Rastafarianism became a buzzword in Jamaica. In fact the best treatment that Rastas ever had was from Eddie Blind and as you can see it did him no good.

Norman Manley was the first Premier to outlaw political expression, exile rivals and ban Literature, but is that played over and over...of course not, he was a PNP Leader.
Hugh Shearer banned a foreigner, Rodney that was depends on how you look at it was stirring up as much trouble or more as the 4-Hs that Norman Manley banned and exiled from his Party and from Jamaica. If it was done under a PNP Government I am pretty sure nothing would have come of it.

Hugh Shearer instituted the Mobile Reserve, but the PNP before him had used repression against the folks of West Kingston and made it expressly clear that is what they were doing. Do you remember the famous edict of Will O Issacs?
Paraphrasing: “What are a few broken skulls in the building of a nation?”
I bet you will never see that anywhere?

Then when you take into consideration the record of the man who followed him as Prime Minister of Jamaica. Human Rights violations and State terror too numerous to mention, indefinite detention, gun court, red fence, offence against the person act, Home Guard, the Bigidadistas, Green Bay, SOS, Rema Evictions, Gold Street Massacre, Eventide Home Fire, Orange Lane Fire, Donald Ogilvie Killings, attacks on Tivoli Gardens, etc
.
That is why in my humble opinion it better to use statistical facts rather than raw emotion and anecdotal references when comparing the performance of the various leaders.

[Wardob]

Re: RIP Mr Manley

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XEvuRMoAWA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAmJ5-TXR9M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYTg4l7gPRo

Check it out

[Tuff Gong]

Re: RIP Mr Manley

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wardob</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XEvuRMoAWA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAmJ5-TXR9M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYTg4l7gPRo

Check it out </div></div>

LOL!