Landlines

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Landlines

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Littleman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In fact that was the original reason why most users chose Cable over DSL when both were available, because the TelCos would simple disable your service when expand it in home with a router or build any kind of Server.</div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold">Tuffy</span>, if you have an XBOX 360, and play multi-player over the Internet you are using a server in the XBOX.
If you use a peer-to-peer service like Kazaa, or bitTorrent, you are also using a server that was installed as part of an application. This also goes for the former Napster service. The Telco companies know about this, and allow it, <span style="font-weight: bold">it is good for business</span>...[/b</div></div>

My friend can just try to overstand what I am saying all these rules were written without these considerations, I am just trying to say if one went by the rules your Bandwidth would be optimized for what you are trying to do. Even SKYPE type use breaches the Providers rules, but you don't see them trying to turn it off do you? No they simple provide more and faster Bandwidth, COMCAST tried regulating Bandwidth arbitrarily by discriminating against certain suspected users, the company ended up in court and lost the argument.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Landlines

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Littleman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Littleman says:
<span style="color: #660000">Again, I reiterate, the DSL is provided by a DS0 channel that is of <span style="font-weight: bold">fixed</span> bandwidth, depending on the switch that provides the service it can be 64 kbits, or 1.5 Mbits, up to 10 Mbits. <span style="font-weight: bold">No</span> sharing of bandwidth takes place. As the signal gets multiplexed (no sharing of bandwidth), in C.O. equipment, it gets interleaved with bit streams from other DS0 signals, and broken up in size if necessary, at the other end it is demultiplexed to the original DS0 signal, etc.

<span style="font-weight: bold">To put simply, DSL is a point-to-point technology, and cable uses shared multi-point circuits.
&quot;A single downstream 6 MHz television channel can carry up to 27 Mbps of downstream data throughput from the cable head-end; upstream channels can deliver 500 Kbps to 10 Mbps from home and business end-users. <span style="font-weight: bold">This upstream and downstream bandwidth is <span style="font-size: 14pt">shared</span> by other data subscribers connected to the same cable network segment, which is often 500 to 2000 homes on a modern network</span>&quot; taken from DSL and cable modem networks . </span></span> </div></div>

I did 2 years of Electronics in High School, worked one summer for the telephone company, Phreaked TelCos for and built Computers for years. I know or can find as much information in 10mins as you would spend a lifetime digging up thank you!

[bee_bop]

Re: Landlines

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Littleman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Littleman says:
<span style="color: #660000">Again, I reiterate, the DSL is provided by a DS0 channel that is of <span style="font-weight: bold">fixed</span> bandwidth, depending on the switch that provides the service it can be 64 kbits, or 1.5 Mbits, up to 10 Mbits. <span style="font-weight: bold">No</span> sharing of bandwidth takes place. As the signal gets multiplexed (no sharing of bandwidth), in C.O. equipment, it gets interleaved with bit streams from other DS0 signals, and broken up in size if necessary, at the other end it is demultiplexed to the original DS0 signal, etc.

<span style="font-weight: bold">To put simply, DSL is a point-to-point technology, and cable uses shared multi-point circuits.
&quot;A single downstream 6 MHz television channel can carry up to 27 Mbps of downstream data throughput from the cable head-end; upstream channels can deliver 500 Kbps to 10 Mbps from home and business end-users. <span style="font-weight: bold">This upstream and downstream bandwidth is <span style="font-size: 14pt">shared</span> by other data subscribers connected to the same cable network segment, which is often 500 to 2000 homes on a modern network</span>&quot; taken from DSL and cable modem networks . </span></span> </div></div>

I did 2 years of Electronics in High School, worked one summer for the telephone company, Phreaked TelCos for and built Computers for years. I know or can find as much information in 10mins as you would spend a lifetime digging up thank you! </div></div>

Littleman says:
<span style="color: #660000"><span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 17pt">W O W !!! impressive...</span></span></span>

[kia027]

Re: Landlines

watching Tuffy &amp; Littleman and wondering how much do they both really know about telecom

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Landlines

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Keyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> watching Tuffy &amp; Littleman and wondering how much do they both really know about telecom </div></div>I knew enough to run an off the record switchgear for over 10 years!
The funny thing how these Board Convos descend into arguing minutiae, lose the plot and stray from the original intent of the game!

[bee_bop]

Re: Landlines

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Keyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Keyer, that splitting of the voice (or POTS) from data is known as frequency division multiplexing, which I deliberately didn't mention, since it really didn't have any bearing on the point of DSL being a single channel (unshared) DS0 signal coming from the Central Office switch.</div></div>

ahmm ok! but but what about this?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Data uses the higher frequency ranges and voice the lower frequencies of the same line to split the technology into a shared line. Each CLEC provider merely employs different analog frequencies for transporting voice and data on the line.
How It Works

One splitter is installed at the end user premises and a second one at the central office. The splitters permit xDSL service to be added to the local loop so that Line Splitting can be provisioned.</div></div> </div></div>

Littleman says:
<span style="color: #660000">Keyer:
Data uses around 40 kHz frequency, whereas the human ear can recognize up to 8 kHz (which is the frequency of the voice part of the signal that you previously mentioned). The splitter that is referred to is merely a low pass filter(for low frequency voice signals), at the customer's end, that you would use to be able to make voice calls with a POTS phone, otherwise your POTS phone would be useless.

The POTS signal, at low frequency, and the digital signal at higher (up to probably 40 kHz) frequency, are multiplexed together using Frequency Division Multiplexing (FDM), as mentioned previously. The two signals are <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">not</span></span> sharing bandwidth, they are two distinct signals, multiplexed by reason of frequency (FDM).</span>

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Landlines

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Littleman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Littleman says:
Keyer:
Data uses around 40 kHz frequency, whereas the human ear can recognize up to 8 kHz (which is the frequency of the voice part of the signal that you previously mentioned). The splitter that is referred to is merely a low pass filter(for low frequency voice signals), at the customer's end, that you would use to be able to make voice calls with a POTS phone, otherwise your POTS phone would be useless.

The POTS signal, at low frequency, and the digital signal at higher (up to probably 40 kHz) frequency, are multiplexed together using Frequency Division Multiplexing (FDM), as mentioned previously. The two signals are not sharing bandwidth, they are two distinct signals, multiplexed by reason of frequency (FDM).</div></div>

I am still waiting for you to prove that <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">this</span> will (or what has degraded Cable Bandwidth) and if so how come we don't see folks screaming their head off since you already proved that Servers are rife on the Broadband System?

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Secondly</span> how can one user in the course of his/her/its ordinary use see another on Cable?

[bee_bop]

Re: Landlines

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Littleman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Littleman says:
Keyer:
Data uses around 40 kHz frequency, whereas the human ear can recognize up to 8 kHz (which is the frequency of the voice part of the signal that you previously mentioned). The splitter that is referred to is merely a low pass filter(for low frequency voice signals), at the customer's end, that you would use to be able to make voice calls with a POTS phone, otherwise your POTS phone would be useless.

The POTS signal, at low frequency, and the digital signal at higher (up to probably 40 kHz) frequency, are multiplexed together using Frequency Division Multiplexing (FDM), as mentioned previously. The two signals are not sharing bandwidth, they are two distinct signals, multiplexed by reason of frequency (FDM).</div></div>

I am still waiting for you to prove that <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">this</span> will (or what has degraded Cable Bandwidth) and if so how come we don't see folks screaming their head off since you already proved that Servers are rife on the Broadband System?

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Secondly</span> how can one user in the course of his/her/its ordinary use see another on Cable?
</div></div>

Littleman says:
<span style="color: #660000">I don't have to prove a darn thing to you, or anyone else...
If you want to believe what you will that's entirely up to you...

I can see very well that you <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">only</span></span> have <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">two</span></span> years of <span style="font-weight: bold">High School electronics</span>, and whether you worked for a Telco, or not, <span style="font-weight: bold">there are many positions within a Telco, not all of them are technical</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 14pt">I don't have to boast of how much education I have</span>, if I did</span>...well let me leave it there... </span>

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Landlines

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Littleman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Littleman says:
<span style="color: #660000">I don't have to prove a darn thing to you, or anyone else...
If you want to believe what you will that's entirely up to you...</span></div></div>
You don't and I totally agree except that you stated a falsehood and then compound it by superfluous trash that had nothing to do with the argument about cable based broadband vs. Copper based Broadband, which you turned the whole post into.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Landlines

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Littleman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="color: #660000">I can see very well that you <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">only</span></span> have <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">two</span></span> years of <span style="font-weight: bold">High School electronics</span>, and whether you worked for a Telco, or not, <span style="font-weight: bold">there are many positions within a Telco, not all of them are technical</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 14pt">I don't have to boast of how much education I have</span>, if I did</span>...well let me leave it there... </span> </div></div>

My friend think again If you had not gone into a dissertation about the technical aspects of copper wire I would feel no need to disabuse of any idea that I am a <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">johnny-come-lately to field</span>. To be sure I have very <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">limited education </span>and I gained most of my knowledge by <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">self-education </span>but there are some things I know and recognize, such as the exact moment a person foolishly dive down a rabbit hole and <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">keeps digging</span>.

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">As to the argument that there are several positions in a TelCo</span> and the guy who takes out the trash may not have access to info on how to splice copper wire...<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">that’s a fair observation</span>, but trust me I wasn't been paid <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">I volunteered </span>and the fact that I even got into the company without the letters behind my name was enough. As I said I Phreaked Systems, you don't do that if you don't have knowledge.

[bee_bop]

Re: Landlines

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Littleman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="color: #660000">I can see very well that you <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">only</span></span> have <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">two</span></span> years of <span style="font-weight: bold">High School electronics</span>, and whether you worked for a Telco, or not, <span style="font-weight: bold">there are many positions within a Telco, not all of them are technical</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-size: 14pt">I don't have to boast of how much education I have</span>, if I did</span>...well let me leave it there... </span> </div></div>

My friend think again If you had not gone into a dissertation about the technical aspects of copper wire I would feel no need to disabuse of any idea that I am a <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">johnny-come-lately to field</span>. To be sure I have very <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">limited education </span>and I gained most of my knowledge by <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">self-education </span>but there are some things I know and recognize, such as the exact moment a person foolishly dive down a rabbit hole and <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">keeps digging</span>.

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">As to the argument that there are several positions in a TelCo</span> and the guy who takes out the trash may not have access to info on how to splice copper wire...<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">that’s a fair observation</span>, but trust me I wasn't been paid <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">I volunteered </span>and the fact that I even got into the company without the letters behind my name was enough. As I said I Phreaked Systems, you don't do that if you don't have knowledge.
</div></div>

Littleman says:
<span style="color: #660000">I wouldn't doubt that you <span style="font-style: italic">phreaked systems</span>...of course it depends on what system that would be, and what you mean by the vague word phreaked <span style="font-style: italic">(shudder to think)</span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">Take it from me, based on what you have said here on this board, I wouldn't see you as someone technical.</span> All you have told me is how you <span style="font-style: italic">phreaked systems</span>, nothing else.

<span style="font-weight: bold">On the other hand, I have given you a reasonably detailed account of how a Telco service works,</span> and I could go much further, but for this situation it is enough. <span style="font-weight: bold">This particular thread is finished as far as I'm concerned as well</span>.</span>

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Landlines

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Littleman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Littleman says:
<span style="color: #660000">I wouldn't doubt that you <span style="font-style: italic">phreaked systems</span>...of course it depends on what system that would be, and what you mean by the vague word phreaked <span style="font-style: italic">(shudder to think)</span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">Take it from me, based on what you have said here on this board, I wouldn't see you as someone technical.</span> All you have told me is how you <span style="font-style: italic">phreaked systems</span>, nothing else.[/b].</span> </div></div>

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">LOL</span>... My friend you were the one who sought to drag this post in the realm of technical mumbo jumbo, which you clearly don't overstand but nevertheless feel comfortable to ram down our throats. I merely wanted to cut the dissertation so the post would get forward to the original argument on Land Lines Phone vs. other forms of Communication for main use.

Again nothing in what you have said <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">so far </span>proves that the ordinary user of Cable Broadband are able to see other users and interfere with other users during the course of their usage.
Nothing that you have said here have demonstrated conclusively that Cable will degrade past the speed of Land Line based Broadband.

[bee_bop]

Re: Landlines

Tuffy:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My friend you were the one who sought to drag this post in the realm of technical mumbo jumbo, which you clearly don't overstand but nevertheless feel comfortable to ram down our throats.</div></div>

Littleman says:
<span style="color: #660000">It appears as mumbo-jumbo to you because <span style="font-weight: bold">you know nothing</span> about telecommunications, as you yourself have admitted you <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-style: italic">only</span></span> have two years of high school electronics...

<span style="font-weight: bold">Sorry</span> if I appeared to have rammed <span style="text-decoration: underline">anything</span> down your throat that <span style="text-decoration: underline">wasn't</span> my intention, but if that's the way you take it then, that's too bad, next time try to avoid heavy stuff...</span>

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Landlines

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Littleman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Tuffy:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My friend you were the one who sought to drag this post in the realm of technical mumbo jumbo, which you clearly don't overstand but nevertheless feel comfortable to ram down our throats.</div></div>

Littleman says:
<span style="color: #660000">It appears as mumbo-jumbo to you because <span style="font-weight: bold">you know nothing</span> about telecommunications, as you yourself have admitted you <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-style: italic">only</span></span> have two years of high school electronics...

<span style="font-weight: bold">Sorry</span> if I appeared to have rammed <span style="text-decoration: underline">anything</span> down your throat that <span style="text-decoration: underline">wasn't</span> my intention, but if that's the way you take it then, that's too bad, next time try to avoid heavy stuff...</span> </div></div>

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Again my friend I know everything I need to know about Communication</span>, it is <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">you</span> who have proven that you know nothing but what you hastily researched, to be able to post. You have failed to rectify the biggest flaws in your arguments and you persist in making a fool of yourself by going down a road that you need not have gone.

For instance To claim that there are differences in landline Telephone Networks
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Littleman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Littleman says:
<span style="color: #660000">I wouldn't doubt that you <span style="font-style: italic">phreaked systems</span>...of course it depends on what system that would be, and what you mean by the vague word phreaked <span style="font-style: italic">(shudder to think)</span> </span> </div></div>
is bunk and it shows how little you overstand Networks.
All POTS in the Western Hemisphere operate on the same basic Bell system; they just use different protocols and carrier frequencies. For decades there have been only two companies making the switches for all the TelCos, so the little differences in how the switches are put to use is nether here or there, in the end it just two copper wires.

Again only a foolish person who deliberately try to change the subject to wallow in minutiae that has zilch to do with what is being discussed here. You have not contributed anything at all to this convo because it sought to deal with the pros and cons of choosing certain forms of communication. It appear that your are still using 2 kandensed Kans and is looking over your next doors neighbour's fence fascinated by the fact that they are getting Television signals, Telephone, Games and Email out of a Cable Box.

[bee_bop]

Re: Landlines

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All POTS in the Western Hemisphere operate on the same basic Bell system; they just use different protocols and carrier frequencies. For decades there have been only two companies making the switches for all the TelCos, so the little differences in how the switches are put to use is nether here or there, in the end it just two copper wires.</div></div>

Littleman says:
<span style="color: #660000">I don't know if your posting was an attempt at humor, but considering that I couldn't laugh, I'll assume it wasn't.
There is a saying that goes like this, &quot;<span style="font-weight: bold">it is better not to say anything, and have people wonder if you're a fool, than to start talking and convincing them that you're a fool...</span>&quot;</span>