Reggae music and this new trend

[Mutty]

Re: Reggae music and this new trend

Arjen I can can certainly agree with that, but does music help to continue perpetrating what is already there? Is there some kid in suburbia, growing up in a "good" home, apart from "gansta" life who could be influenced by music from the "hood" even though he is not from part of "what is already there?"

[Derek]

Re: Reggae music and this new trend

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mutty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I raised this topic (asked these questions) on a local Caribbean station:


Many reggae artists (especially the dancehall crowd) love to embrace the latest. If it's singing about "Jah," "Gad" or "Jesus" that gets them listeners and/or money then that is what they sing about. If it is about shooting [censored] that is the hot subject, then that is what they sing about. If it is about gyal and [censored] [censored], then that is what they sing about, however, I noticed as of late many are singing about putting down guns and stopping the violence. If, as has been pointed out in the past, DJs contribute(d) to the increase in violence due to "gun lyrics," why is it that the new trend of anti-gun lyrics not making a dent in violence, notably in Jamaica? </div></div>

Which just goes to show that singing about guns and violence does not increase crime.

Nor does 'bun posterior bwoy' encourage attacks on posterior men.

Nor does singing about Jeesas increase church attendances.

[tsophra]

Re: Reggae music and this new trend

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mutty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Arjen I can can certainly agree with that, but does music help to continue perpetrating what is already there? Is there some kid in suburbia, growing up in a "good" home, apart from "gansta" life who could be influenced by music from the "hood" even though he is not from part of "what is already there?" </div></div>

Mutty I really think its unlikely that some kid fram the burbs will get pulled into "real" gangsta life because of the music..tons of white kids fram the burbs in fact all over the world lissen to rap..yu don't see them doing drive-bys and the same can be said about black kids from the burbs

[Wahalla]

Re: Reggae music and this new trend

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mutty</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mutty</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mutty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I fixed that for you and it's not so much about 'tell' as much as it is about suggestion. If enough kids hear their favorite artist up there talking about "war," "gun" and who fi ded, I am willing to say one or two of them will take such things to heart as okay to do and all it takes is one or two to strike fear in the hearts of hundreds. </div></div>

So do you believe that those one or two will take their message from other places when th emusicians change their subject,and the level of violence will still balance out?
music is not uniqely the source of all influences to the Jamaican youth,or is it? </div></div>

No, but in Jamaica and other places, entertainers are practically worshiped and emulated in style and fashion and in extreme cases their antics are copied. </div></div>
I can tell you about Jamaica. they will mimic their fashion,but do not idolize none .
You don't know the jamaican audence. at all,theyu certainly have you fooled. They will turn against an artist in one instant,irrespectuive of their recent adulations
They will hype him,by never idolize him as is done in the USA.They see him as an entertauner,and as lons as he is doing that he is cheered,but nothing more. Don't let their behavior fool you.
These are the offspring of the people who booed Michael Jakson off th estage,when he was supposed to be on top of th eworld.
...and they sre not much different,believe it or not.
They know too many jamaican proverbs to follow some lyrics by some hurry-come-up artist. </div></div>

So is it safe to say that someone like say, Bob Marley, has not been emulated, practically worshiped and has not influenced scores even beyond Jamaica's borders? I certainly understand what you are saying as I have been to reggae concerts in St. Thomas (V.I), here in the states and Jamaica, but many of these artists claim they hail from the hard life of the ghettos and have made it to a microphone to tell their stories or express their frustrations, anger and way of dealing with things. They then are hailed as heroes by other youths who see their own experiences in them.

I know that the majority of people see these people as just entertainers, but what they sing about can certainly influence already fragile and impressionable minds. You have depressed people listening to depressing songs prior to blowing their brains out and angry people listening to angry songs before going on some bloody rampage, etc. Nowadays in sections of the black community you have artists stressing "bling" and [some] of their listeners grabbing their guns to go gain said bling by some very illegal means. </div></div>
I knew BOB marley he lived on the same street as i did. I was involved with him more than the passing.
During his 'reign' he was never idolized by Jamaicans. He was never worshiipped. He had no entuorage,no body guards no following other than if he had a show. It was th eforeigners who were always trying to get autographs. Not onopy Bobmarley. I know ewvery one of the stars,actors,politicians,and the local peopl;e did not idolize him.
What most foreigners do not realize is that onl;y a minority of his lyrics are origional. most odf it are jamaican proverbs,bible verses,and speaches,by other people,like Marcus garvey Haille selasie etc.They wer not so strange to us,just th emusic wssnew,not th elyrics. The most that would happen when he stopped or walked on th eroad,would be some winshield wiper youth,would beg him a money. Not anything else. </div></div>

Doc thats actually one of the few times any one said how I recall he was viewed... He never struck me as anything other than normal... This canoic iconisation of him is bewitchingly strange. The man has been made into a saint! He was not.. ...The other thing I still find it strange when he is refered to as Bob Marley.. It was as I recall simply "Bob".
"mi a listen sum bob"

[jah_yout]

Re: Reggae music and this new trend

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mutty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I raised this topic (asked these questions) on a local Caribbean station:


Many reggae artists (especially the dancehall crowd) love to embrace the latest. If it's singing about "Jah," "Gad" or "Jesus" that gets them listeners and/or money then that is what they sing about. If it is about shooting [censored] that is the hot subject, then that is what they sing about. If it is about gyal and [censored] [censored], then that is what they sing about, however, I noticed as of late many are singing about putting down guns and stopping the violence. If, as has been pointed out in the past, DJs contribute(d) to the increase in violence due to "gun lyrics," why is it that the new trend of anti-gun lyrics not making a dent in violence, notably in Jamaica? And with the first part of my question, I am certainly NOT desiring a return to gun lyrics in every song. Are there known examples and/or evidence that their influence is stemming the tide?


I don't really listen for rap, but are many of their artists still embracing that "gangsta, I'm from the ghetto and I hate everybody" [censored] or are there some amongst their ranks really trying to get an anti-violence message out there to their young listeners? </div></div>



mutty i may be accused of being hyper-sensitive but i can't help but feel a certain jamaica/reggae bias tilt in your post...
jamaicans are not governed by music...they love it to the bone but are not 'ruled' by it...

[jah_yout]

Re: Reggae music and this new trend

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mutty</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mutty</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mutty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I fixed that for you and it's not so much about 'tell' as much as it is about suggestion. If enough kids hear their favorite artist up there talking about "war," "gun" and who fi ded, I am willing to say one or two of them will take such things to heart as okay to do and all it takes is one or two to strike fear in the hearts of hundreds. </div></div>

So do you believe that those one or two will take their message from other places when th emusicians change their subject,and the level of violence will still balance out?
music is not uniqely the source of all influences to the Jamaican youth,or is it? </div></div>

No, but in Jamaica and other places, entertainers are practically worshiped and emulated in style and fashion and in extreme cases their antics are copied. </div></div>
I can tell you about Jamaica. they will mimic their fashion,but do not idolize none .
You don't know the jamaican audence. at all,theyu certainly have you fooled. They will turn against an artist in one instant,irrespectuive of their recent adulations
They will hype him,by never idolize him as is done in the USA.They see him as an entertauner,and as lons as he is doing that he is cheered,but nothing more. Don't let their behavior fool you.
These are the offspring of the people who booed Michael Jakson off th estage,when he was supposed to be on top of th eworld.
...and they sre not much different,believe it or not.
They know too many jamaican proverbs to follow some lyrics by some hurry-come-up artist. </div></div>

So is it safe to say that someone like say, Bob Marley, has not been emulated, practically worshiped and has not influenced scores even beyond Jamaica's borders? I certainly understand what you are saying as I have been to reggae concerts in St. Thomas (V.I), here in the states and Jamaica, but many of these artists claim they hail from the hard life of the ghettos and have made it to a microphone to tell their stories or express their frustrations, anger and way of dealing with things. They then are hailed as heroes by other youths who see their own experiences in them.

I know that the majority of people see these people as just entertainers, but what they sing about can certainly influence already fragile and impressionable minds. You have depressed people listening to depressing songs prior to blowing their brains out and angry people listening to angry songs before going on some bloody rampage, etc. Nowadays in sections of the black community you have artists stressing "bling" and [some] of their listeners grabbing their guns to go gain said bling by some very illegal means. </div></div>
I knew BOB marley he lived on the same street as i did. I was involved with him more than the passing.
During his 'reign' he was never idolized by Jamaicans. He was never worshiipped. He had no entuorage,no body guards no following other than if he had a show. It was th eforeigners who were always trying to get autographs. Not onopy Bobmarley. I know ewvery one of the stars,actors,politicians,and the local peopl;e did not idolize him.
What most foreigners do not realize is that onl;y a minority of his lyrics are origional. most odf it are jamaican proverbs,bible verses,and speaches,by other people,like Marcus garvey Haille selasie etc.They wer not so strange to us,just th emusic wssnew,not th elyrics. The most that would happen when he stopped or walked on th eroad,would be some winshield wiper youth,would beg him a money. Not anything else. </div></div>

Doc thats actually one of the few times any one said how I recall he was viewed... He never struck me as anything other than normal... This canoic iconisation of him is bewitchingly strange. The man has been made into a saint! He was not.. ...The other thing I still find it strange when he is refered to as Bob Marley.. It was as I recall simply "Bob".
"mi a listen sum bob" </div></div>


yea bob was a normal man...and a prophet

[jah_yout]

Re: Reggae music and this new trend

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mutty</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mutty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I fixed that for you and it's not so much about 'tell' as much as it is about suggestion. If enough kids hear their favorite artist up there talking about "war," "gun" and who fi ded, I am willing to say one or two of them will take such things to heart as okay to do and all it takes is one or two to strike fear in the hearts of hundreds. </div></div>

So do you believe that those one or two will take their message from other places when th emusicians change their subject,and the level of violence will still balance out?
music is not uniqely the source of all influences to the Jamaican youth,or is it? </div></div>

No, but in Jamaica and other places, entertainers are practically worshiped and emulated in style and fashion and in extreme cases their antics are copied. </div></div>


sure jamaica has its share of negative artists...but it also has and has always had a slew of positive artists...where in the world sing as much culture music as jamaicans?
that is not the problem...are the movie stars in hollyweird to blame for the ills of america? the rappers? the politicians?
it's deeper than these artists who are only pawns of a next bigger man's agenda...seen

[Jamerican_Gyal]

Re: Reggae music and this new trend

Hey Dr. Dudd:

My response had nothing to do with Jamaican culture - it was a general response to how music can affect people. If I misunderstood the original question, forgive me, but the hostility in your response is surprising.

In American culture, when someone says "throw your signs up" it refers to gang signs, and the incident I referred to happened in America. I could blast you for not knowing American culture, but what's the point?

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Reggae music and this new trend

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jamerican_Gyal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey Dr. Dudd:

My response had nothing to do with Jamaican culture - it was a general response to how music can affect people. If I misunderstood the original question, forgive me, but the hostility in your response is surprising.

In American culture, when someone says "throw your signs up" it refers to gang signs, and the incident I referred to happened in America. I could blast you for not knowing American culture, but what's the point?


</div></div>

This is what you said...the way people took to "Dutty Wine" to the point at least one young girl died from doing it, I would say music has a powerful influence over people and their actions.

I heard of a rap song that tells the listeners to throw their signs up and a fight broke out in the dance - people dead there too.
_________________________
A people without knowledge of their history is like a tree without roots. Marcus Mosiah Garvey
Now did people took to dutty wine in the US??
did the young girl dancing it died in the US?
So how come are now stating that you were refering to the US?
The reason why i came down on you so hard,was really intentional. Yes intentional,but not personal. it is not about you. It is really an act against the common problem os people using their knowledge of experiences that happens in one social unit and transfers it to th eother without taking into consideration that the most important aspect is completely missing. That is the difference in socialization of the citizens in each social unit.
You did this by assume that because you have heard of fights being instigated by utterances of an entertainer,in the 'American culture.
You then deduce that since the dance "dutty wine' took ons uch a life to th epoint where some one was alledged to have been killed by the act of doing it.
They would be an effect of violent behavior from such groups in reaction to lyrics of entertainers.
The problem is that you did not take into consideration that jamaicans have the abillity to to recognize abstract lyrics as diffefent from reality. You don't realize that Lyrics are taught in th eform of 'Jamaican proverbs to Jamaicans as soon as they are born.
They out of necessity have to be able to decupher a lot of the proverbs,before they become intrested in entertainers.
They by then are more than able to differentiate between a song,poem,or song from real life.
So ir is not that i want to attack you it is all about setting this straight.
You don't realize how important this is.
Let me tell you that the international Gay activitists,uses this same tainted logic to blame entertainers for supposedly violence against gays. Not bothering to learn about the socialization of the people,and theeffects it has on their relationship with information.

[tsophra]

Re: Reggae music and this new trend

and anadda ting..everytime me look at de heading the "new trend" pawt strikes me as been really "off"..peace and inity is not new to reggae nor is it a trend

[Jamerican_Gyal]

Re: Reggae music and this new trend

Dr. Dudd, I'm glad your response was not personal toward me.

The girl that I was referring to died in Jamaica doing the dance.

As far as poeple in the US taking to the dance, just watch Beyonce, Ciarra, Rhianna, etc. as they perform (and yes I know Rhianna is Bajan).

I understand what you are saying about socialization of people in different cultures and not understanding them if not exposed to them. Help me with this one though:

What was the cause of the violence breaking out at clubs in the US when Jamaican dancehall artists performed? Granted, the violence has subsided drastically, but the reputation of these shows deterred attendance by people who were not used to dancehall music. Again, this was when dancehall bust on the scene in the mid-late 80's.

Also, we might as well bruk up Peter Tosh's song that says no matter where you are from, if you're a black man, you are an African. What about the statement, you can take the man out of the country but not the country out of the man? Social culture travels. Hip-hop came out of reggae (search Cool Herc on google.com), reggae came out of soul music. It's circular. We borrow from each other because we are one.

Yes, we black people have been socialized based on our geographic location, but we all have a common bond - we are African. Look at our foods, the way we do our hair, the way we change up the langauge so only we understand. Did you know I grew up with the stories of Brer' Rabbit who was based on Anasi (from Africa). You have Anancy in Jamaica, we have Bre' Rabbit in America, based on Anansi - get it?

Look at this on a larger scale and don't fall into the ethnocentric trap of we better than you better than them. We are one.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Reggae music and this new trend

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jamerican_Gyal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dr. Dudd, I'm glad your response was not personal toward me.

The girl that I was referring to died in Jamaica doing the dance.

As far as poeple in the US taking to the dance, just watch Beyonce, Ciarra, Rhianna, etc. as they perform (and yes I know Rhianna is Bajan).

I understand what you are saying about socialization of people in different cultures and not understanding them if not exposed to them. Help me with this one though:

What was the cause of the violence breaking out at clubs in the US when Jamaican dancehall artists performed? Granted, the violence has subsided drastically, but the reputation of these shows deterred attendance by people who were not used to dancehall music. Again, this was when dancehall bust on the scene in the mid-late 80's.

Also, we might as well bruk up Peter Tosh's song that says no matter where you are from, if you're a black man, you are an African. What about the statement, you can take the man out of the country but not the country out of the man? Social culture travels. Hip-hop came out of reggae (search Cool Herc on google.com), reggae came out of soul music. It's circular. We borrow from each other because we are one.

Yes, we black people have been socialized based on our geographic location, but we all have a common bond - we are African. Look at our foods, the way we do our hair, the way we change up the langauge so only we understand. Did you know I grew up with the stories of Brer' Rabbit who was based on Anasi (from Africa). You have Anancy in Jamaica, we have Bre' Rabbit in America, based on Anansi - get it?

Look at this on a larger scale and don't fall into the ethnocentric trap of we better than you better than them. We are one.
</div></div>
One have to deal with the subject that is being discusssed. The topic is on whether the changes in subject from one of violence to a more civilized tone does not seem to have reduced the level of violence in the Jamaican society.
To properly adress the topic,it is not helpful to addres it on th ebasis of a common bond between all balcks.It may be expedient due to th elack of knowledge or awareness of the social mecahnisms that influences the resultant disparirt between the supposedly cause, as professed by so many,and the effect on the ground.
So my attampt to adress this is seperate and apart from the similarities or differences unless such is used to as an argument as you did.
All forms of life has commonalities,but identifying cause and effect requires individual understanding of the subjest being analysed.

[jah_yout]

Re: Reggae music and this new trend

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Arjen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and anadda ting..everytime me look at de heading the "new trend" pawt strikes me as been really "off"..peace and inity is not new to reggae nor is it a trend </div></div>


totally agree