Oh Tuff Gong & Italists, cum mek wi.................

[Simmy]

chat bout Ital an tings, lang time dat nat discussed praperly een yah. Evrywan wey interested cum chat noh?

Yu up fi di discussion? Arite.
Opening queschun:
Fus of all, mi get fi ovastan di true definiton of Ital means Natural, wat grows fram di earth. Dat nuttin nyam wey name meat, pork, fish ar poultry, no animal a tall, an nuttin wat cum fram animal. It mean sey no salt, no dairy eeida. So therefore, to be an Italist, den a peer veggie fi nyam.
Wat yu tink bout dat? How yu seet?

[TeaOom]

Re: Oh Tuff Gong & Italists, cum mek wi.................

Originally posted by Simmy:
chat bout Ital an tings, lang time dat nat discussed praperly een yah. Evrywan wey interested cum chat noh?
Yu up fi di discussion? Arite.
Wat yu tink bout dat? How yu seet?

Simmy mi is intrasted [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Nung mi 'ave nat 'ad meat ina mi life fe quite a lang time nung... mi nat shur ow lang doah but mi caan quite break de salt habbit... mi granny tole mi wance dat mi a go get dropsey o elephantitus [img]/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Wan time yu tole mi dat mi coulden be ital wid frozen vegetables, why nat if deh fresh freeze wihout salt o preservative?

Mi hate fe goh tuh de mawket! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

Tonks Simmy [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Guest]

Re: Oh Tuff Gong & Italists, cum mek wi.................

Well I became a Vegetarian at around 14 years and a Rasta shortly after.

With Ital we eschew all Animals and Flesh, salt and processed sugar, and other ingredients.

However because Rasta can Eat Fish and Fowl it was never really clearly defined. So in effect you can have Ital Fish Stew and Chicken recipes if you use all natural ingredients and do not add salt.

I and the other Dreads that formed our loose grouping were very radical in our diets. We did not eat meat, Fish, Chicken, no Animal products, no processed Foods, No Sugar(except cane juice, pressed by us or a special cane man).

Nowadays I use Coconut Milk from the Can, however I do not use Tofu, Veggie Protein, Glutten, or stuff like that. I have nothing against Cows Milk, Butter and Cheese except that the Hormones and processing I do not deal with. I am not religious anymore, so my reference point is not any teachings or instructions from the Bible.

My point of view is that, I do not have to draw blood to eat, less is more flavour, and since I do not eat meat why try to to eat food that look like meat?

So to answer your question it seems to me that Ital is now more inline with Natural, Vegan is the Stricter discipline unless of course you are Micro-biotic, RAWfoodist, or Fruitian.... [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Simmy]

Re: Oh Tuff Gong & Italists, cum mek wi.................

Originally posted by TeaOom:
[qb]
Simmy mi is intrasted [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Nung mi 'ave nat 'ad meat ina mi life fe quite a lang time nung... mi nat shur ow lang doah but mi caan quite break de salt habbit... mi granny tole mi wance dat mi a go get dropsey o elephantitus [img]/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Wan time yu tole mi dat mi coulden be ital wid frozen vegetables, why nat if deh fresh freeze wihout salt o preservative?

Mi hate fe goh tuh de mawket! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

Tonks Simmy [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [/qb]

Yes, Ms. Tea, tanks fi di respanse. So dat ppl wey nuh chat patwa can falla di discussion, mi a go chat di henglish fi dem, zeen? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

As far as the salt thing goes, I find that when preparing a veggie meal, I replace the salt with a bit of garlic and other seasonings. Your palate has to get used to the different seasonings without the salt, but to make a meal tastey, one does not have to add salt. One can use other seasonings to make up for it. Some good seasonings to always have on hand to use (and I'm speaking for myself, others may use different things) Garlic, fresh ground black pepper, thyme, and in JA, tomatoes, peppers and scallion are also considered seasonings. Also there is pimento, bayleaf, rosemary, basil, just so many other seasonings besides salt that are natural.
The main reason for not using processed salt is it's effect on ones blood pressure and retention of water. Some don't use processed salt for other reasons as well. Most foods have natural salts in them.

As far as frozen veggies, if you cook or blanche them and freeze them yourself, I see nothng wrong with it, unless they get freezer burn. (I'd hope one would use them b4 that happens! )I think vacuum freezing is best, that takes all the air out so the food stays fresher, longer.

What I was speaking of was not using frozen veggies as they come packaged from the store. These are processed and have additives. Besides they taste pretty bad compared to fresh veggies.

So you see, if you fresh freeze your own veggies then you don't have to go to the store so often. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Simmy]

Re: Oh Tuff Gong & Italists, cum mek wi.................

Tuff Gong, I gather then that the term Vegan is when one is very very strict in their intake (or omittance thereof)of certain foods. Especially anything processed? The difference between vegan and italist then being that italists don't restrict their diets as much. For instance, the Rastas I lived amongst were Italists. Why? They ate no flesh but would eat things such as wet sugar, white flour and processed cornmeal, and white rice. (I see the difference now.)

I was once married to a Rasta who loved to use baked tofu in many of our meals. Is your reason for no tofu because it is processed? If not, then why?

Wouldn't it be extremely difficult here in the States to buy all natural chicken or fish, it seems to me that most everything, including the veggies here have some sort of pollutants or additives in them. I personally do the best I can here, I try to select foods I think are the best for me, but there's always that suspicion in the back of my mind asking me if any of this is really good for me, DWL. I too use the tin coconut milk. I remember a time also that ALL tin food was a big no-no. Times have changed.

I've heard also that a very strict diet such as Vegans use, can be bad for your health if you don't intake the proper amount of vitamins and nutrients the body needs with what you eat.

I'd like to know what you think of bottled water as well. Pros and cons.

[kia027]

Re: Oh Tuff Gong & Italists, cum mek wi.................

Sorry fi faas inna ya but i is most curious about the no tofu as well.

We make our own soymilk from organic soybeans and were considering making our own tofu.

[Guest]

Re: Oh Tuff Gong & Italists, cum mek wi.................

Well I buy Organic when I can, it cost a little bit more, but it taste better.

Less Additives more taste...yum yum!!!
Stay fresher longer do this test buy an organic orange and a regular orange keep then outside or inside of the Refrigerator see which last longer!

The outside of the organic oragne will get progressively softer, the other will get as hard as a rock....try it.

In terms of Vegan Diet vegans can use salt subsitute, and Tofu. However I don`t. The only time i use salt is if I am cooking for someone else. If you went without salt long enough say for twenty years, you cannot eat a lot of prepared food. My last girlfriend who was a Jamaican, she was a very good cook, but I couldn`t eat when she cooked and she would add salt when I cooked.

I don`t eat tofu, I never even knew about it till a few years ago. I was an Ital Dread, no process period. As to can goods there is a great stigma in Jamaica, that is older than Rastafari, it is more rooted in the Paternal Nature of our Country and the fact that the Woman`s place was seen to be in the home, preferably bent over the kitchen fire, so any thing that freed her from this drudgery was eschewed. Canning and preservation of food have a long a venerated History however, although as you pointed out Commercial Preservation provides less taste and risk more additives. the Chinese have all kinds of preservation system that while it might not provide the taste you desire normally call for less additives.

My only equipment in my kitchen beside the stove are Stainless Steel Pots, Good knives and Water.

I don`t use Tap Water. I use bottled Water. I have never drank water from the tap unless I am taking a shower and brushing my teeth, sometimes if the water is real bad I used bottled water to brush my teeth.

Vegetarian Living is a little more expensive than other living, however I would be out of my range if I lived any other lifestyle, having done it so long.

The main reason I do not use Tofu is that I figure as I have said before, if you do not Eat Meat why try to use stuff that look like meat?

Oh besides Escallion, Onion, Garlic, Cloves, Piemento, Bay Leaves and Country Pepper, I also use Carrots, Beets, Pumkin, Sweet Potato and what we call Irish potato, as Seasonings. These give colour to your meal and impart flavour and variety.

The olive oil and Garlic are the first things in my pot, then the rest...BON APPÉTIT [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[MNap1]

Re: Oh Tuff Gong & Italists, cum mek wi.................

Originally posted by Simmy:
[qb]chat bout Ital an tings, lang time dat nat discussed praperly een yah. Evrywan wey interested cum chat noh?

Yu up fi di discussion? Arite.
Opening queschun:
Fus of all, mi get fi ovastan di true definiton of Ital means Natural, wat grows fram di earth. Dat nuttin nyam wey name meat, pork, fish ar poultry, no animal a tall, an nuttin wat cum fram animal. It mean sey no salt, no dairy eeida. So therefore, to be an Italist, den a peer veggie fi nyam.
Wat yu tink bout dat? How yu seet?

[ 01-30-2002: Message edited by: Simmy ][/qb]

I’am not a very good cook (G2 knows this [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] ), but since becoming a Ras, I have learned
to appreciate food without salt and my intake of meat reduced. Don't eat cow, PIG, or sheep
I eat mainly fish but mi noh touch dem crustaceous tings, and I definitely don’t touch mackrell.
I use mostly pumpkin, chow-chow, onions, carrots, garlic, escallion, red/green peppers, black pepper and thyme as seasoning for my fish.
I have never used substitute meat at all, why badda? Have not eaten chicken in England now for a few months well not since November last year, so dere is still hope fe mi.

[img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Simmy]

Re: Oh Tuff Gong & Italists, cum mek wi.................

kia027, of course you're welcome in here, please do join the reasoning. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

MNap, I'd love to hear the reasoning about mackeral, cum with it, please. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

I don't really see tofu (and the only type I will eat is baked tofu, it's firmer) as a meat substitute, I see it more as a high protein food. Soy beans are known for their high content of proteins. I've known about it for years, from way back in the 70's but the Chinese have been using soy beans for centuries.

Bottled water, I use it to drink and cook foods with, I refuse to use the tap water to cook or drink. Who knows whats in the bottled water? How do we even know if it's real spring water or if it's just tap water that's bottled? LOL. I've seen both negative and positive debates on this alone. Best we can do is choose what brand we buy carefully. Wat a ting! Buying water!

Tuffy, I agree with the stainless steel cookware. Dutch pots are made from aluminum and so are a lot of the pots and pans, aluminum is poisonous to your body, even tho you can't see it coming off the pots, it does and goes into your blood stream. Stainless steel is the safest as far as cookware is concerned. I wonder how safe the teflon lined utensils are? Do good teflon coatings shed? What does that do to one's system? Is it poisonous like aluminum?

As an aside, I rarely eat from restaraunts, every now and then and then I'm very careful what I order. I try cooking and eating from home as much as possible.

I use corn, sometimes pumpkin in my rice, for a bit of variety. Ground food such as yams, sweet potatoes, irish are all good to me. I love green bananas, bread fruit, plaintain and pumpkin too. Made a few stews with beet root also. Greens such as callaloo, collards, spinach, cabbage, so many ways to cook them is a shame, dwl. Saltfish I use, but I make sure to try boil out all the salt first, maybe there's a bit left but I don't think it would hurt my system. Hmmmm, that's food for thought...... [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] Well, it's really hard to cook ackee and saltfish without the fish, LOL.

I use olive oil or coconut oil most of the time when cooking, but to fry food, I sometimes use vegetable oil. Is using canola or corn oil better for frying than using vegetable oil? How about peanut oil?

[MNap1]

Re: Oh Tuff Gong & Italists, cum mek wi.................

Simmy, nothing sinister about mackerel, just can't stand to touch it, it feels slimy and sickie, and as for the taste, noh sah, mi noh like it at all!. Wheda it fresh, pickled, smoked, mi cyan stomak it.
Anadda one dat mi noh eet is kipper or red herring, lawd it repeat an repeat an repeat, an it tink too [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Guest]

Re: Oh Tuff Gong & Italists, cum mek wi.................

Continuing the Reasoning:

I do not drink Spring water except PERRIER and evian.

What I use bottled tap water the have been filtered and purified, I buy in the store. My guess is a lot of water is just tap water anyway. What I am trying to avoid is the Chlorine ruining my food taste.

I use a filter on my Shower as well.
No Coated pots are good for cooking under certain temperature the coating will come off and
hurt you.
Stainless Steel can always be cleaned. As a Dread in Jamaica we used a lot of Fired Clay and
Gourds...but with clay you have to be sure there is not lead or aluminum in the process.

I never use any other oil other than pressed olive oil. If I want a certain flavour say fried
dumplings I will go search for some Coconut oil.
I do not do much Frying anyway I only make fried foods to impress guests, and the demonstrate
the range of Jamaican Cooking.

I am now a member of the local Vegetarian Society and we have eat out nights every second
Tuesday of the month, we choose a local restaurant and go. The idea is to support restaurant that include vegan and Vegetarian meals on the menu.

I have known about Soya for years in Jamaica, I just never used it. I only saw Tofu a few years
ago, but I have known that the Chinese called it bean curd. In fact the Vegan Conference was
held a couple of weeks ago in china town in Philly, our vege-society president and her husband
went. They gave tours of Vegan Restaurant and the Tofu factory.

The society also hold a Pot-Luck Party every third Saturday and all kinds of people come with all kinds of different Vegan. Micro-biotic and Vegetarian Meals.


As to actually cooking Vegetarian meals it is very easy, like I say the a little olive oil and the garlic go in first, in a heated pot. The Vegetable is already sliced and diced hard stuff like carrots, beets, sweet potato Irish potato goes in first. Then if it greens that go in, the pot is covered, in 5 minutes, bay leaf, pepper, cloves, escallion, thyme or Italian seasonings is added. It again cover, lift once to turn, add a little coconut milk if desired, cover and let it finish steaming. At the very end of it you can sprinkle black pepper on top and give it another turn. Use Black Pepper last all the time unless you marinate, Black Pepper tend to get bitter under too much heat.

Of Course you can just steam you vege, where you add every thing all at once, including coconut
milk, no oil and cover tightly, increase the heat rapidly. Decrease then let the steam take over by
far the healthiest way to cook.

Rice and Peas is of course King of the Hill. Ital rice and Peas is a taste out of this world in
flavour. You want to try to soak the peas first make sure after you cook the peas when you add
the Dread-Nut Milk you add the Garlic as well, that is the key don`t mess up here [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] .

After you start seeing colour you add thyme and escallion. When you start seeing little curds and
the peas test soft add rice. I use Basmati Rice or Thai-Rice. Stir only once with a fork or a
spatula, never a spoon, cover, reduced the heat till you can barely see steam and let slow cook.

To get perfect grainy rice all time make sure the water is just 1/8 to 1/4 inches above the rice,
or in other words you can just barely see the rice below the waterline. Do not be scared just
reduced the heat never open the pot again and you will have perfect shelly rice all the time.... [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Guest]

Re: Oh Tuff Gong & Italists, cum mek wi.................

Sorry To answer my own post but I forgot that you asked about Ackees.

Well I been cooking Ackees for years without saltfish.
We had tree Ackee trees in out yard and sometime we had ackee for Breakfast, Lunch, and dinner by choice of course. I loved ackee cooked wih tomatoes and Cashews.

I have cooked rice and beans using peanuts or almond which make a nice change once in awhile.

The mexican variety of chilantro is a very good seasoning, except that it is sold in bunches and can over power your meal. Most Mexican Family cook it like Spinach....Happy Ital Eating [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Simmy]

Re: Oh Tuff Gong & Italists, cum mek wi.................

Hi Tuff Gong, I was only saying that it's difficult to cook ackee and saltfish without the saltfish, dwl. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
Anyway, I too have prepared ackee in many various forms same as you, for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Sometimes for breakfast we'd steam greens and then add the ackee on top and steam it a little more. Then there's ackee and fry dumpling, woohoo, wata a cum a mi yeyes dem noh jus remembering all dat.

I use the basmati rice as well, it has a much better flavour than regular long grain white rice.
Also cooks up very well. Sometimes when I cook the rice, I'll add a crushed scallion in just to give it a different flavour as well.

To cook my rice dry, when the water is done in the pot, I use a metal ting, (don't know the name of it but it's the size of a stove burner, flat, with a handle and has holes in it)that I place under the covered pot and turn the fire down very low and let the rice steam till dry. The metal under the pot keeps the rice from burning while drying.
Cooking the rice properly is really an art, achieved after many trials and error, LOL. As you said, rice should only be stirred once, since stirring more will only make for mushy rice. I measure the amount of water the old fashioned way, water should not come above the first digit on your finger after touching the rice. Then I bring it to a boil, then turn the fire low and cover. Once the water is cooked out, I use the method I described above.

I've never tried cooking with nuts, thanks for the idea!
I sometimes use cilantro, but use just a wee bit, it does add a different taste to the food. I usually mince it for use in soups. One or two sprigs at the most.

That Vegetarian Society sounds very interesting, there's so much to learn in the vegetarian world.

[Simmy]

Re: Oh Tuff Gong & Italists, cum mek wi.................

Originally posted by MNap1:
[qb]Simmy, nothing sinister about mackerel, just can't stand to touch it, it feels slimy and sickie, and as for the taste, noh sah, mi noh like it at all!. Wheda it fresh, pickled, smoked, mi cyan stomak it.
Anadda one dat mi noh eet is kipper or red herring, lawd it repeat an repeat an repeat, an it tink too [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [/qb]

DWL, MNap1, I knoh wat yu mean. Here in the states I only use snapper, salmon and kingfish.
If in JA, I try other fish as well. I don't trust that the fish are very fresh here, but in JA one can buy them directly from the fisherman, so we know it's fresh. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
No kippers or herring for me either, LOL. I rarely use mackeral and I mean rarely.

[shoo]

Re: Oh Tuff Gong & Italists, cum mek wi.................

I make all kinds of things; dal, curries, loaves, patties, gravies. You can do this with nuts, and grains. I use Quorn for variety so no one in my house misses or wants those dead things.
I use tvp and tofu all the time as it is very nourishing. Tvp can substitue for ground meat and tofu can fry with spices (mmm) till crusty or the soft kind you can make puddings and cakes with!
I use soymilk for coconut as I used to have a baad cholesterol problem; but now I find Indian people do it all the time too.
I bet we could make Ital patties with tvp. Wha' you say Simmy? I learn all these things from friends from Grenada who are 7th day Adventists; they have good cookin. If we knew someone from JA they could tell us a thing or two [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]