WELCOME MGEE - F&R SUMMER FEATURE

**mountaingal** · 09-09-2008, 12:08 PM

Re: WELCOME MGEE - F&R SUMMER FEATURE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Compray</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To fix my typo.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Compray</div><div class="ubbcode-body">3. If A and A decide to get together and Girl A decides that she loves her mother-in-law (me) enough to take a second <span style="font-weight: bold">look </span>at Christianity would you discourage or encourage her?
</div></div>
<span style="color: #3333FF"> noted, lol.</span>

MG, I was falling asleep now I'm wide awake thinking so I thought I would throw another question, maybe two out here.

1. We have over 70 different nationalities attending my church, including folks who practiced Hindu, etc. Do you have an opinion why people in general have this need to worship something or someone? <span style="color: #3333FF"> it probably started as a means of dealing with the unexplainable in life and in needing to build a common front against the power of nature and nature's forces. </span>

2. Still thinking about the different nationalities in my church, why do you think so many people from so many backgrounds have decided to believe in Jesus?
<span style="color: #3333FF"> maybe they are attracted to the jesus theology as how some christians are attracted to other theologies. it depends on what each person is searching for, i guess.</span>

3. I think I asked Mutty this question. I recall seeing Miss K when she was 10 days old through an ultrasound. She was the size of a period. I never really thought much about conception and the baby growing much until that experience with my 10 days old miracle. Who do you think created the original design with all this DNA info stored in a dot that tells the dot when to grow legs, arms, head, eyes, teeth...etc?
<span style="color: #3333FF">i don't think anybody created an original design. i just think life is chemistry and biology. it just is. </span> </div></div>

**mountaingal** · 09-09-2008, 12:17 PM

Re: WELCOME MGEE - F&R SUMMER FEATURE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CEW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <span style="font-size: 11pt">
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-weight: bold"> Do you ever have any struggles with doubts in your current convictions, especially during the "I don't know" moments?</span>

<span style="color: #3333FF"> i don't really have "i don't know" moments about the existence of God. unless you're talking about a different kind of doubts...?</span></div></div>
Not about God per se, but about your own worldview.
<span style="color: #3333FF">i sometimes have doubts that my worldview is sustaining and nourishing me. i get those doubts when i feel stuck in life. i overcome those doubts with a good walk outdoors - get the endorphins going, brush my hands against tree leaves, feel the sun and wind on my face. or by playing some music. i'm lately learning to value meditation. </span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">Given that you do not believe in God, do you think that His presumed non-existence is self-evident, and if so, in what ways?</span>

<span style="color: #3333FF"> it's more like i don't see any proof that god exists. a lot of what i see people ascribing to deities i think are the consequences of human will and action, or just natural forces. i don't really spend a lot of time thinking about the possibilities of god's existence or trying to "prove" god's non-existence. i'm tickled by the idea of goddesses, though. </span></div></div>
Is there any particular "proof" that you would have considered good enough?</span>

<span style="color: #3333FF">not really. actually, i think God is an invention of human beings, proof doesn't really come into it. </span> </div></div>

**Compry** · 09-09-2008, 12:24 PM

Re: WELCOME MGEE - F&R SUMMER FEATURE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> i sometimes have doubts that my worldview is sustaining and nourishing me. i get those doubts when i feel stuck in life. i overcome those doubts with a good walk outdoors - get the endorphins going, <span style="font-weight: bold">brush my hands against tree leaves</span>,</div></div>

Last night I was going to ask you why you do this.

I observe things and folks and I've noticed you in nature, the way you touch, smell and even taste. Now mi know why.

**Diplomat** · 09-09-2008, 01:11 PM

Re: WELCOME MGEE - F&R SUMMER FEATURE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MGee</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="color: #3333FF">...actually, i think God is an invention of human beings, proof doesn't really come into it. </span> </div></div>
One of the tenets of atheism is that life is without meaning or purpose; i.e. it's all randomness (based on biology and chemistry as you would say) and "poof", sort of, we're here. If that holds true, in your opinion, why would human beings who evolved without meaning or purpose, feel a need to "invent" God? What in man's meaningless existence would have provoked such a need?

**mountaingal** · 09-09-2008, 01:23 PM

Re: WELCOME MGEE - F&R SUMMER FEATURE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CEW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MGee</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="color: #3333FF">...actually, i think God is an invention of human beings, proof doesn't really come into it. </span> </div></div>
One of the tenets of atheism is that life is without meaning or purpose; i.e. it's all randomness (based on biology and chemistry as you would say) and "poof", sort of, we're here. If that holds true, in your opinion, why would human beings who evolved without meaning or purpose, feel a need to "invent" God? What in man's meaningless existence would have provoked such a need? </div></div>

atheism has tenets? i don't know about that. as such, i don't agree with your premise and therefore the setup of your question.

in any event, wrt the need to invent God, my answer above to Compry's question about why people feel a need to worship someone kind of covers it.

DC · 09-09-2008, 07:12 PM

Re: WELCOME MGEE - F&R SUMMER FEATURE

((((MGee)))) So, glad you could make it!!

<span style="font-style: italic">I have admired your comfort level in who you are as an athiest. You remind me of some of the athiest/agnostic folks I used to hang with (before I moved from that state). </span>

Here are a couple:

1. Have you ever considered this: Do you think religion / spirituality serve a role or purpose in a culture/society?

2. If you should place a label on your athiestic views, which one would you say lean towards? humanistic?

3. In light of your personal non-religious journey, is there a quote (could be a life quote-if you have one) that best describes where you are now?

4. You spoke on your children's choice in their religious beliefs.(<span style="font-style: italic">BTW, It looks like Compray setting something up for the future..lol</span>). Do you think parents should exert any influence in this regard?

Oh, on your interest in goddesses..Why don't we explore Lillith (and others) one of these days? Don't think she was a goddess, but she is interesting I recall we touched on her in this forum.

<span style="font-style: italic">MI soon come wid more..</span>

**Compry** · 09-09-2008, 09:16 PM

Re: WELCOME MGEE - F&R SUMMER FEATURE

MG, recently my friend's son was in a very bad car accident. He was badly hurt, another boy broke his back and the driver died. My friend and her family are not a Christians however she requested prayers during that traumatic period. I see this often from folks who do not believe in God or Christianity and I'm usually baffled.

My question to you is, have you ever found yourself in a situation where you felt the need to ask a Christian to pray? Also, have you ever found yourself praying about a tough situation?

<span style="font-weight: bold">ETA:</span> Thank you sharing

**Diplomat** · 09-09-2008, 10:03 PM

Re: WELCOME MGEE - F&R SUMMER FEATURE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MGee</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CEW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MGee</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="color: #3333FF">...actually, i think God is an invention of human beings, proof doesn't really come into it. </span> </div></div>
One of the tenets of atheism is that life is without meaning or purpose; i.e. it's all randomness (based on biology and chemistry as you would say) and "poof", sort of, we're here. If that holds true, in your opinion, why would human beings who evolved without meaning or purpose, feel a need to "invent" God? What in man's meaningless existence would have provoked such a need? </div></div>

atheism has tenets? i don't know about that. as such, i don't agree with your premise and therefore the setup of your question.

in any event, wrt the need to invent God, my answer above to Compry's question about why people feel a need to worship someone kind of covers it. </div></div>
Every ism has opinions/principles/dogma/tenets, hence the question. I'll go back and look at response you mentioned.

**Compry** · 09-10-2008, 06:18 PM

Re: WELCOME MGEE - F&R SUMMER FEATURE

Lady M...yuh nuh done yet enno.

**mountaingal** · 09-11-2008, 08:33 AM

Re: WELCOME MGEE - F&R SUMMER FEATURE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Silent_River</div><div class="ubbcode-body">((((MGee)))) So, glad you could make it!!

<span style="font-style: italic">I have admired your comfort level in who you are as an athiest. You remind me of some of the athiest/agnostic folks I used to hang with (before I moved from that state). </span>

Here are a couple:

1. Have you ever considered this: Do you think religion / spirituality serve a role or purpose in a culture/society?
<span style="color: #3333FF">Definitely. In addition to the fundamental community bonding for the purposes of survival or a sense of safety against powerful and unexplainable phenomena as i mentioned above, i think religion and spirituality are channels into the best in humanity (although some will also say it taps into the worst of human instinct as well). as a budding artist, i've studied the results of religion on the development of ideas and art that have been tremendously influential. the italian renaissance of the 14th and 15th century saw great advances in architecture, sculpture and painting, stimulated by belief among the religious hierarchy that such saw such things were important to the glory of God. i would imagine there are similar patterns of religious/social advancement among other cultures.

In everyday life, religion/spirituality offers a meditative framework that is beneficial to the mind and body.</span>

2. If you should place a label on your athiestic views, which one would you say lean towards? humanistic?
<span style="color: #3333FF">you know, i don't really buy the label thing? CEW noted above that "isms" have tenets - maybe for some but not for my personal state of atheism. the term atheism is really a convenient shortcut to show that i do not believe in supernatural unseen beings (i don't believe in ghosts nor god). Beyond that, i accept a lot of things that other people, believer and unbeliever alike, do and try to do to make the world a better place to live. pretty big among that is caring about others and in particular the less fortunate. is that humanist? </span>

3. In light of your personal non-religious journey, is there a quote (could be a life quote-if you have one) that best describes where you are now?
<span style="color: #3333FF">I'm not really on a non-religious journey (a little puzzled by that turn of phrase, actually). i'm just living my life the best that i can. where i am right now is trying to get my older daughter off on a nine-month volunteer trip which i think will expose her to challenges that will test her, strengthen her and help her get greater self-understanding. </span>

4. You spoke on your children's choice in their religious beliefs.(<span style="font-style: italic">BTW, It looks like Compray setting something up for the future..lol</span>). Do you think parents should exert any influence in this regard?
<span style="color: #3333FF">actually, i don't see anything wrong with parents wanting their children to have a religious grounding. it's a good way to introduce children to the concept of intercession. As they grow into adults, children will get to develop for themselves their own spiritual identity and beliefs, and i think at some point then parental influence should recede. </span>

Oh, on your interest in goddesses..Why don't we explore Lillith (and others) one of these days? Don't think she was a goddess, but she is interesting I recall we touched on her in this forum.
<span style="color: #3333FF">yes, i remember that discussion! lilith, who boxed with God and i think won a couple of the fights, too. embodiment of the feminine principle more or less stripped out of judeochristianity (though i hear some argue that it returned in the form of Christ's benevolent aspects.)</span>

<span style="font-style: italic">MI soon come wid more..</span> </div></div>

**mountaingal** · 09-11-2008, 08:52 AM

Re: WELCOME MGEE - F&R SUMMER FEATURE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Compray</div><div class="ubbcode-body">MG, recently my friend's son was in a very bad car accident. He was badly hurt, another boy broke his back and the driver died. My friend and her family are not a Christians however she requested prayers during that traumatic period. I see this often from folks who do not believe in God or Christianity and I'm usually baffled.

My question to you is, have you ever found yourself in a situation where you felt the need to ask a Christian to pray? Also, have you ever found yourself praying about a tough situation?

<span style="font-weight: bold">ETA:</span> Thank you sharing </div></div>
<span style="color: #3333FF">Once a few years ago i was going through a really hard time at a job, a really tough and stressful time that dang near broke me, because it involved dealing with someone who was incredibly malevolent toward me and i was not spiritually equipped to deal with a person like that. and i came on the board, and poured my heart out. and i think it was britisha who recommended that i read a certain psalm. I think it was 27...? mi haffi go look it up... anyway, i read it and felt a great sense of release, and i think that point was the closest i ever came to becoming a believer again.

i've often wondered about that particular experience and why it happened. i think in times of great mental distress, being able to share and take comfort from others help to relieve the burden of the distress. which is where i think the call for prayers come in. there are so many things in life that we cannot control, and their immensity and our sense of helplessness essentially lead us to a state spiritual crisis and paralysis. we need the help of others, especially others who may have gone through something similar and are versed in the words and actions that can help us past that point.

<span style="font-style: italic">i'll think a little more on this and if anything come back. have to get to work. ciao! </span></span>

**Wahalla** · 09-11-2008, 10:30 AM

Re: WELCOME MGEE - F&R SUMMER FEATURE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i've often wondered about that particular experience and why it happened. i think in times of great mental distress, being able to share and take comfort from others help to relieve the burden of the distress. which is where i think the call for prayers come in. there are so many things in life that we cannot control, and their immensity and our sense of helplessness essentially lead us to a state spiritual crisis and paralysis. we need the help of others, especially others who may have gone through something similar and are versed in the words and actions that can help us past that point.
</div></div>

"Isnt that what mates are for ???" : Crocodille Dundee...

DC · 09-13-2008, 11:19 PM

Re: WELCOME MGEE - F&R SUMMER FEATURE

(((MGee))) Thanks for those responses!! <span style="font-size: 8pt">Sorry I got back to you so late</span>

Re; "personal life journey"...I guess I look at our lives (in all aspects) as a journey... Always learning something new in every facet of our person, as we continue to walk the path of life. So that's where its coming from.

[/quote]i think religion and spirituality are channels into the best in humanity (although some will also say it taps into the worst of human instinct as well). [/quote]

Yes, mi agree wid yu. It brings out the best and worst of the humanity, in accordance with the motive of the individual(s).

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Beyond that, i accept a lot of things that other people, believer and unbeliever alike, do and try to do to make the world a better place to live. pretty big among that is caring about others and in particular the less fortunate. is that humanist?</div></div>

I do believe this is one aspect of humanism, which was explained to me in a conversation I had with Dyoll sometime ago (he was a declared humanist). I do recall he said that not all athiests are humanist and not all humanist are athiest.

As I read your response on Lillith: What are your perceptions on how religion ( in general-no particular religion in mind) recognizes the woman's role?

**H_O** · 09-15-2008, 10:50 PM

Re: WELCOME MGEE - F&R SUMMER FEATURE

i got a question.
MGee -what do you think going back to the begining of it all..
what are your thoughts on the theologigal view of immaculate conception?

scientifically, are you in agreeance, like myself-that is it not amazing that even with scientific proof-that in no other time that someone can be born without copulation?
scientifically- it is IMPOSSIBLE.

whom do you think started this deception of religion amongst the masses?

so if tommorow, someone painted a picture of god-and thousands of years later- people would actually believe this person to be god.
so what i find truly amazing, is - how does one know Jesus really excisted other than a novel written by no author

**Diplomat** · 09-15-2008, 11:41 PM

Re: WELCOME MGEE - F&R SUMMER FEATURE

<span style="font-size: 11pt"><span style="font-weight: bold">MGEE</span>, this has been great. On behalf of the F&R mods, and our participating members, thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts with us, and for being patient in your answering of the different questions!

As another participant is in the "chair" for this week, I have created another thread with some outstanding questions for follow-up here.

Once again, thanks much
</span>

WELCOME MGEE - F&R SUMMER FEATURE

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