WELCOME HERETIC: F&R SUMMER FEATURE

[Diplomat]

<span style="font-size: 11pt"> <span style="color: #000099"> The F&amp;R Mods welcome our 9th and final guest, <span style="font-weight: bold">HERETIC</span>, and thank him for graciously agreeing to be a part of this Summer Series.

<span style="color: #6600CC"> <span style="font-size: 14pt"> <span style="font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'"> ~~~~~~ Welcome, HERETIC ~~~~~~</span></span></span>

As always, we get the ball rolling from our pool of questions, and members are encouraged to ask their own questions as well:</span>


<span style="color: #330033"> 1) Did you grow up with religious beliefs, and if so, at what point did you start to question them?

2) Do you find yourself intolerant of people who believe in God?

3) For some people, religion, regardless of which, adds a sense of purpose/meaning to their lives. How has your world view shaped how you approach life?

4) Do you get turned off completely if you were chatting amiably with someone, and then you found out they were a Christian/religious?

5) If you are/were a parent, would you try to influence your child(ren)'s decisions regarding their religious beliefs? Do you think parents should exert any influence in this regard?

6) Given that you do not believe in God, do you think that His presumed non-existence is self-evident, and if so, in what ways? </span> </span>

[H_O]

Re: WELCOME HERETIC: F&amp;R SUMMER FEATURE

glad i never got called onto this Faith and Reason circus---feeeew

[Compry]

Re: WELCOME HERETIC: F&amp;R SUMMER FEATURE

Hi

1) Do you have a dislike for all religions or just Christianity?
2) If you were forced at gunpoint to choice to be a part of one religion (yuh have to pick one), which one would you choice and why?
3) What's your view on Christians in places like China being put to dead for their Christian beliefs?

[heretic]

Re: WELCOME HERETIC: F&amp;R SUMMER FEATURE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="color: #330033"> 1) Did you grow up with religious beliefs, and if so, at what point did you start to question them?
</div></div>
I did. I grew up as a Seventh Day Adventist. I questioned some things as a child, the straightforward stuff: snakes talking, donkeys talking, etc. However, it wasn't until I was about 14 that I started to question my particular religion. At first I wanted to believe, and I figured Seventh Day Adventism was simply a bad approximation of the pure truth of Christianity - so I went to the source(s) and read the bible over and over. That didn't go too well leading me to reject Christianity as a mishmash of bad history and mythology. Still, I wanted to believe in god so I studied history and religions of the world. The more I learned the worse it got. Finally I concluded that none of it made any sense whatsoever. For a long time afterwards I was what you'd call non religious, but like Mutty I held on the to belief that there was a designer responsible for the supposed order in the world. But I'm a rational and scientific minded person and that belief can't withstand logical scrutiny.

So ever since 18 or so I've been what you'd call a strong or positive atheist (meaning I believe there is no god or gods).

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
2) Do you find yourself intolerant of people who believe in God?</div></div>No. To each his own. I may think your beliefs are stupid, and I won't apologize for that, but we can get along.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">3) For some people, religion, regardless of which, adds a sense of purpose/meaning to their lives. How has your world view shaped how you approach life?</div></div>My world view gives me freedom. I don't have to 'feel funny' about the thoughts that come naturally to my mind. I don't have to live in fear that all my actions are being weighed in a balance that tips towards hell. I'm free, and it's quite pleasant.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">4) Do you get turned off completely if you were chatting amiably with someone, and then you found out they were a Christian/religious? </div></div>
No. I've found that religous people can sometimes be quite nice when they're not being religous.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">5) If you are/were a parent, would you try to influence your child(ren)'s decisions regarding their religious beliefs? Do you think parents should exert any influence in this regard?</div></div>I would. I consider religion to be be harmful -intellectually and otherwise- therefore just like I'd try to influence my child's lifestyle in other respects (don't be a crackhead, don't be a sketel bomb) I'd steer them away from religion. Personally, I don't see this as much of a problem anyway. First and foremost I'm not interested in teaching them what to think, I'd teach them how to think (rationally, logically, scientifically, etc). If I succeed in that then I won't have to worry about religion.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">6) Given that you do not believe in God, do you think that His presumed non-existence is self-evident, and if so, in what ways? [/size] </span> </div></div>Which god? If I asked you 'given that you don't believe in the Hindu elephant god ganesh, do you think that his presumed non-existence is self-evident?' what would your response be? It's an odd question that can only be answered by restricting the context. So I'll give the answer for a different question: I think the non-existence of the christian god is self evident.

If you're a christian, and think the non-existence of Ananci the spider god is self-evident, and understand why you think that, then you'll understand.

[heretic]

Re: WELCOME HERETIC: F&amp;R SUMMER FEATURE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: H_O</div><div class="ubbcode-body">glad i never got called onto this Faith and Reason circus---feeeew </div></div>How fortunate for you.

[heretic]

Re: WELCOME HERETIC: F&amp;R SUMMER FEATURE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Compray</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1) Do you have a dislike for all religions or just Christianity?
</div></div>I dislike all religions, some more than others. I happen to harbour special animus for Christianity since it is the specific brand of religion with which I am intimately acquainted.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">2) If you were forced at gunpoint to choice to be a part of one religion (yuh have to pick one), which one would you choice and why?</div></div>If I were in Pakistan, I'd pick Islam. If I were in Salt Lake City I'd be a Mormon, Ireland? Catholic. I'm not so smart that I'm stupid.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">3) What's your view on Christians in places like China being put to dead for their Christian beliefs?</div></div>Turnabout is fair play? For much of the history of Christendom Christians have been on the handle end of the sword. See also: The Spanish Inquisition.

Seriously though, it's tragic. I am of the opinion that consenting adults ought to be able to practice whatever perversion they wish as long as they don't interfere with others. While I personally think christianity is a silly belief, I don't think people should be killed by the state merely for holding silly beliefs. I'm also not going to convince myself that there is nobility in dying for a silly belief.

[DC]

Re: WELCOME HERETIC: F&amp;R SUMMER FEATURE

heretic. ...layta

[Compry]

Re: WELCOME HERETIC: F&amp;R SUMMER FEATURE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> like Mutty I held on the to belief that there was <span style="font-weight: bold">a designer responsible for the supposed order in the world</span>. But I'm a rational and scientific minded person and that belief can't withstand logical scrutiny.
</div></div>

Are you saying you no longer believe there's a designer?

[heretic]

Re: WELCOME HERETIC: F&amp;R SUMMER FEATURE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Compray</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> like Mutty I held on the to belief that there was <span style="font-weight: bold">a designer responsible for the supposed order in the world</span>. But I'm a rational and scientific minded person and that belief can't withstand logical scrutiny.
</div></div>

Are you saying you no longer believe there's a designer?

</div></div>Correct. I don't believe there is design or a designer.

[Kurlie]

Re: WELCOME HERETIC: F&amp;R SUMMER FEATURE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: heretic</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Compray</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> like Mutty I held on the to belief that there was <span style="font-weight: bold">a designer responsible for the supposed order in the world</span>. But I'm a rational and scientific minded person and that belief can't withstand logical scrutiny.
</div></div>

Are you saying you no longer believe there's a designer?

</div></div>Correct. <span style="font-weight: bold">I don't believe there is design or a designer</span>. </div></div>

interesting...can you elaborate on this some more Heretic? Do you beleive in the Big Bang Theory?

[Diplomat]

Re: WELCOME HERETIC: F&amp;R SUMMER FEATURE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: heretic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First and foremost I'm not interested in teaching them what to think, I'd teach them how to think (rationally, logically, scientifically, etc). If I succeed in that then I won't have to worry about religion. </div></div>
Are you saying that faith and the combination of rationality, logic, and science are mutually exclusive?

[heretic]

Re: WELCOME HERETIC: F&amp;R SUMMER FEATURE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CEW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: heretic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First and foremost I'm not interested in teaching them what to think, I'd teach them how to think (rationally, logically, scientifically, etc). If I succeed in that then I won't have to worry about religion. </div></div>
Are you saying that faith and the combination of rationality, logic, and science are mutually exclusive?
</div></div>That's precisely what I'm saying. I wouldn't need to have 'faith' if I had logical and scientific proof.

[heretic]

Re: WELCOME HERETIC: F&amp;R SUMMER FEATURE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MrsKurlie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: heretic</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Compray</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> like Mutty I held on the to belief that there was <span style="font-weight: bold">a designer responsible for the supposed order in the world</span>. But I'm a rational and scientific minded person and that belief can't withstand logical scrutiny.
</div></div>

Are you saying you no longer believe there's a designer?

</div></div>Correct. <span style="font-weight: bold">I don't believe there is design or a designer</span>. </div></div>

interesting...can you elaborate on this some more Heretic?</div></div>I don't see any evidence of design, and I haven't heard any coherent arguments to support design. Therefore I don't believe there is design.

[/quote] Do you beleive in the Big Bang Theory? [/quote]I accept the Big Bang Theory as the current best explanation for the state of our universe. When a better explanation comes along I'll accept that one.

[mountaingal]

Re: WELCOME HERETIC: F&amp;R SUMMER FEATURE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: heretic</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CEW</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: heretic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First and foremost I'm not interested in teaching them what to think, I'd teach them how to think (rationally, logically, scientifically, etc). If I succeed in that then I won't have to worry about religion. </div></div>
Are you saying that faith and the combination of rationality, logic, and science are mutually exclusive?
</div></div>That's precisely what I'm saying. I wouldn't need to have 'faith' if I had logical and scientific proof. </div></div>
do you think that a scientist can have faith?

[rudemonk]

Re: WELCOME HERETIC: F&amp;R SUMMER FEATURE

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: heretic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I accept the Big Bang Theory as the current best explanation for the state of our universe. When a better explanation comes along I'll accept that one.
</div></div>

why do you think it is that science does such a bad job in extinguishing ignorance. one of my hugest pet peeves is to have to argue something that at face value, should be seen as ridiculous, and yet still has a foothold in the public imagination which requires a careful leading through the wilderness so to speak, so as not to offend.