Crosses and their symbolism

[EdisonShi]

Re: Crosses and their symbolism

There are several Celtic Crossess. I have one (can't remember the name of hand) that is basically a square shaped cross similar to the Iron (or Maltesse) Cross that is formed of Celtic knots. It represents where the physicaly world meets the spiritual world and than on my wall I have the Eternity cross which looks very similar to the tradition Christian cross (Sans Jesus) but is made out of circular Celtic knots that have no beggining and no end.

[mountaingal]

Re: Crosses and their symbolism

Originally posted by EdisonShi:
[qb]There are several Celtic Crossess. I have one (can't remember the name of hand) that is basically a square shaped cross similar to the Iron (or Maltesse) Cross that is formed of Celtic knots. It represents where the physicaly world meets the spiritual world and than on my wall I have the Eternity cross which looks very similar to the tradition Christian cross (Sans Jesus) but is made out of circular Celtic knots that have no beggining and no end.[/qb]

Edi, the celtic crosses I see on the Web are like the ones shown above. I've looked into this business of the celtic knots, and founda couple of picturs of the Celtic cross incorporating Celtic knots.

Here'sa guy made to look like he's manipulating a Celtic cross decorated with celtic knots. There's speculation that these large crosses were some kind of navigational tool.


Of course, there is this adaptation of the Celtic Cross being used by the neo-nazis :
.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Crosses and their symbolism

Originally posted by mountaingal:
[qb]

By the way, I read somewhere (perhaps in a Jamaica Journal), that a lot of the designs used in gates (and later burglar bars) in Jamaica trace back to African symbols. This one
is very familiar. It apparently is the sankofa symbol, for "return and fetch it" - which says it is okay (not unlucky) to return for something you've forgotten, you can always undo your mistakes.[/qb]

Yes I was going to tell you that a lot of Iron Works in the New World employes these symbols, but since it was the mostly the:
Sankofa
Dweninimmen
Akokoman
Nyame Dua
Which are not strickly crosses I did not mention them.

However checkout this one:
Kra Pa or other name musuyide, a lot of Cultures and religion, love stealing our Signs and Symbols and renaming them for their own. However Seekers will always find the truth...Peace

[mountaingal]

Re: Crosses and their symbolism

Israelites, just had a chance to read your post thoroughly. Thanks! Although I already knew a lot of that info from researching the cross, I appreciate the extra info on the symbolism of the Falun wheel.

One of the sites I came across (I think it was neo-nazi) also mentioned the fact of ancient Jewish use of the swastika. The site seemed particularly peeved at Jewish pressure to ban the image of the swastika, given that bit of history. Anyway, the Celtic cross as a symbol of white ancestry seemed to fit the bill for them.

As for Hitler's rejection of the "Cross of Thor" route to claiming the swastika symbol, I remember my history teacher in university saying that Hitler despised "Teutonic" peoples. I'm not sure why, but that may have been why he ignored the Scandinavian connection.

[jedi]

Re: Crosses and their symbolism

Good evening everybody. I have been reading this thread and it is all very informative and facinating. Particularly the history behind the swastika. Who would have thought that that was a cross symbol. Imagine that.

[mountaingal]

Re: Crosses and their symbolism

Sukuna - I finally got your point. (You mus learn fe come to de point more clearly, you know, cho!)

Originally posted by sukuna:
[qb]That cross of St.Andrews is our cross path or cross road. St. Andrews was worshiped in place of the cross road guard during slavery, because of this symbol. And they thought they were playing missionaries.
[/qb]

Then you quoted that reference to the Greek cross which was an emblem of the cross roads in ancient use.

You're probably right. A lot of Greek culture was influenced by African culture via their contact with the Egyptians. So yes, in the so-called New World, the two paths may have once again met in the revering of St. Andrew (and his associated cross) as a syncretized replacement for the ancient gods of the cross roads.

[mountaingal]

Re: Crosses and their symbolism

Originally posted by jedi:
[qb]Good evening everybody. I have been reading this thread and it is all very informative and facinating. Particularly the history behind the swastika. Who would have thought that that was a cross symbol. Imagine that. [/qb]

yes, jedee, it's all quite illuminating. i certainly found it so. glad you're enjoying it.

[mountaingal]

Re: Crosses and their symbolism

Okay Edi, found a Celtic cross as you've described:

[rufian]

Re: Crosses and their symbolism

Originally posted by mountaingal:
[qb]Sukuna, that's a nice veve you've shown. Here's a clearer version:



Voodoo syncretizes a lot of Christianity. One could almost make a game out of counting the number of crosses in that veve.[/qb]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WAY! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] They are not crosses and they are not taken from christianity, the other way around [img]/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

At least the first one highlight the sword or people would just think it is another cross. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

Man open your eyes nuh!! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] Them two cross sticks make that people no longer can see the complexities of nature.

Even if voodoo did take that from christianity and it did not. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] Christianity took its symbolism from Africa . So then it is rightfully ours. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

Make a game of counting crosses. Cho. That is all you can see? :troooooooopes:

[rufian]

Re: Crosses and their symbolism

Originally posted by Tuff Gong:
[qb]

Originally posted by mountaingal:
[qb]

By the way, I read somewhere (perhaps in a Jamaica Journal), that a lot of the designs used in gates (and later burglar bars) in Jamaica trace back to African symbols. This one
is very familiar. It apparently is the sankofa symbol, for "return and fetch it" - which says it is okay (not unlucky) to return for something you've forgotten, you can always undo your mistakes.[/qb]

Yes I was going to tell you that a lot of Iron Works in the New World employes these symbols, but since it was the mostly the:
Sankofa
Dweninimmen
Akokoman
Nyame Dua
Which are not strickly crosses I did not mention them.

However checkout this one:
Kra Pa or other name musuyide, a lot of Cultures and religion, love stealing our Signs and Symbols and renaming them for their own. However Seekers will always find the truth...Peace[/qb]

All in the family [img]/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[EdisonShi]

Re: Crosses and their symbolism

The Celtic Cross you have as being used by the Neo-Nazis actually means White Pride not White Power, although your right some Neo-Nazis use it, but some others use it as well.

[rufian]

Re: Crosses and their symbolism

Originally posted by EdisonShi:
[qb]The Celtic Cross you have as being used by the Neo-Nazis actually means White Pride not White Power, although your right some Neo-Nazis use it, but some others use it as well.[/qb]

Alright Edi, as a Scotts man and expecially because you all copyright your quilt skirts. I hereby charge you with copyright infringement. Pay up! Who told you to copy my cross? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
[img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[mountaingal]

Re: Crosses and their symbolism

Originally posted by sukuna:
[qb]

Originally posted by mountaingal:
[qb]Sukuna, that's a nice veve you've shown. Here's a clearer version:



Voodoo syncretizes a lot of Christianity. One could almost make a game out of counting the number of crosses in that veve.[/qb]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WAY! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] They are not crosses and they are not taken from christianity, the other way around [img]/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

At least the first one highlight the sword or people would just think it is another cross. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

Man open your eyes nuh!! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] Them two cross sticks make that people no longer can see the complexities of nature.

Even if voodoo did take that from christianity and it did not. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img] Christianity took its symbolism from Africa . So then it is rightfully ours. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

Make a game of counting crosses. Cho. That is all you can see? :troooooooopes:[/qb]

lawd mississ, seckle nuh?

first of all, just because something is called a cross doesn't always mean it is a Christian thing. That was part of the point of the whole thread. You never read up top where it seh crosses PRE-DATE Christianity? Hie!! Didn't you see where the "two cross sticks" for some pre-Christian people represented union of earth and sky, male and female?

Also, voodoo in Haiti mixed African religion and Christianity. Who's to say that some of the crosses used in the veve were not put there because of their Christian associations - REGARDLESS of the pre-Christian antecedents of voodoo? Try as you might, you can't take the Christianity out of voodoo....

[rufian]

Re: Crosses and their symbolism

How many crosses do you see in the veve?
Now why would I want to take Christianity out of Voodoo? It is the other way around. Voodoo was put into Christianity that is what I said. In front and behind.
Have you ever seen African earth drawings from ceremonies? I guess the crosses they draw are from the Christians tooo.
For all I know the cross in Obeah have not a single thing to do with christianity.

[mountaingal]

Re: Crosses and their symbolism

Originally posted by sukuna:
[qb]For all I know the cross in Obeah have not a single thing to do with christianity.[/qb]

maybe it didn't. and maybe it did.

I count 16 crosses in that veve. 6 on the vertical axis, 8 on the horizontal axis, plus the two larger crosses formed by the combination of axes and the penetration of the sword on the right side of the horizontal axis.

there are probably more that I haven't counted.