Crosses and their symbolism

[Fledgist]

Re: Crosses and their symbolism

MG, your source(s) seem to have left out the Cross of Lorraine, a symbol of some importance!

I think most crosses originate either as sun-symbols (the swastika, for example), or as crossroads symbols.

I'd forgotten that the Greek Cross originated as a symbol of Hecate. Curiously, she was a triple goddess. One wonders...

[mountaingal]

Re: Crosses and their symbolism

Simmy, I see a lot of Cross Patee in the Ethiopian cross imagery. I don't know enough about how Christianity arrived in Ethiopia, but my guess is that those crosses may have arrived in use separate from the Coptic stream.

Looks quite close to Celtic art, too, both in the use of the Cross Patee (sometimes called the Maltese Cross) and in the use of knots signifying eternity...What say you Edi? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

I'll go look see what I can find about Ethiopian crosses...

[Simmy]

Re: Crosses and their symbolism

A little research and this is what I found. My question here then would be, who then, established Christianity in Ethiopia? I think they should go re-read their bible or whatever document they used for reference, dwl. Apparently, they did not use Ethiopian references.

African jewelry: Christianity was established in the Ethiopian highlands as early as the 4th century. For over 1600 years Christian Ethiopians have worn neck crosses as a symbol of faith. The cross was suspended around the neck by a cotton blue cord called a “mateb” which was received at baptism. Jewelry wise, the cross is the most prized personal possession and most valued to collectors of all highland selections.The crosses are usually named from the region that they originate. The crosses feature various design styling from the simplistic Greek or Latin crucifix to the more elaborate with flared arms, trefoils, decorative projections, complicated openwork designing and patterns of interwoven lines symbolizing eternity. Hinges and crowns show the later influence of 19th century European medals. The Star of David is worn by the Falasha, a small group of Jewish settlers living near Gonder. The Ethiopian cross is also made in a larger hand held model that is carried in religious processions.

[mountaingal]

Re: Crosses and their symbolism

Originally posted by Fledgist:
[qb]MG, your source(s) seem to have left out the Cross of Lorraine, a symbol of some importance!

I think most crosses originate either as sun-symbols (the swastika, for example), or as crossroads symbols.

I'd forgotten that the Greek Cross originated as a symbol of Hecate. Curiously, she was a triple goddess. One wonders...[/qb]

Actually, I had come across the Cross of Lorraine and a number of others, but put up the ones for which internet sources and cross references were a lickle more plentiful.

Cross of Lorraine


This cross was carried by the first leader of the Crusades, a man whose patrons were the Dukes of Lorraine in what we know as France today.

It's a double-barreled cross, today associated with Roman Catholic archbishops (therefore one of those crosses of authority). It's also seen as a symbol of the fight against tuberculosis.

I couldn't find the significance of the lower bar - unless it was to denote the place where Jesus's feet were nailed, but it doesn't seem far down enough.

Here's another picture of the Cross of Lorraine outside a hospital in Ontario:

[rufian]

Re: Crosses and their symbolism

Originally posted by Fledgist:
[qb]MG, your source(s) seem to have left out the Cross of Lorraine, a symbol of some importance!

I think most crosses originate either as sun-symbols (the swastika, for example), or as crossroads symbols.

I'd forgotten that the Greek Cross originated as a symbol of Hecate. Curiously, she was a triple goddess. One wonders...[/qb]

One wonders what?

[mountaingal]

Re: Crosses and their symbolism

Originally posted by Wahalla:
[qb]The Mithraics were known to make the "Sign of the Cross" just exactly like the christians and catholics do today. Additionally, the "X" shaped cross appears directly in the center of many of the ceremonial crucifixes of the catholic church. [/qb]

Wahalla: Here's your Mithraic picture. Had to search for the X-shaped cross a bit, but found in on the orb the figure is standing on.



The X-shape as a sign for Christ (as in X-mas) apparently comes from it being (in Greek), the first letter in in the word "Christos". Yet, I understand some Christians (I hesitate to say Jehovah's Witnesses, caw dem name call fe everyting) feel using X in that manner is pagan, not Christian.

[jedi]

Re: Crosses and their symbolism

Originally posted by sukuna:
[qb]Simmy you know they have animists in Ethiopia right? I say all crosses originate from Africa. Full Stop.[/qb]

Sukuna no one is arguing about the origin of the cross. Obviously the cross had to have existed before Christ's day. It was the custom to hang criminals on crosses in His day. The cross came to fame because Christ was hung on a cross. That has nothing to do with where it originated.

[rufian]

Re: Crosses and their symbolism

Well tell dem keep dem cross we have our own. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Simmy]

Re: Crosses and their symbolism

I believe my question was misunderstood, I was asking about the origins (and meanings thereof) of the "design" of the Ethiopian crosses, not where crosses originated per sey.
The title of this thread should clarify what I was asking still.

[jedi]

Re: Crosses and their symbolism

Originally posted by sukuna:
[qb]Well tell dem keep dem cross we have our own. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [/qb]

Yep, everybaddi have dem owna crosses fi troo!!! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[rufian]

Re: Crosses and their symbolism

.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Crosses and their symbolism

Originally posted by Simmy:
[qb]I believe my question was misunderstood, I was asking about the origins (and meanings thereof) of the "design" of the Ethiopian crosses, not where crosses originated per sey.
The title of this thread should clarify what I was asking still.[/qb]

Ethopian Crosses are just Africanized Christian Cross.
As the article you posted showed they vary by region and the we made to satisfy a decree that all christians wear them.

Because the Orthodox Church including Ethopian, Greek, broke off from the regular Christians, they have their own reliquaries, icons and crosses, so there was a huge demand to produced these stylized crosses and Icons. If you look at all the Orthodox and Coptic Faith you will see these ver beautiful examples of Crosses and Icons.

Another Africanized Cross are the Crosses of the Tuareg, the largest remaining Nomadic Peoples in Africa.

The most famous Tuareg Cross is the Agadez which is sometime confused for the Ethopian Orthodox Cross. Here the influcense is Islam and not Christianity.....Peace

[mountaingal]

Re: Crosses and their symbolism

Originally posted by Tuff Gong:
[qb]Ethopian Crosses are just Africanized Christian Cross.
As the article you posted showed they vary by region and the we made to satisfy a decree that all christians wear them.

Because the Orthodox Church including Ethopian, Greek, broke off from the regular Christians, they have their own reliquaries, icons and crosses, so there was a huge demand to produced these stylized crosses and Icons. If you look at all the Orthodox and Coptic Faith you will see these ver beautiful examples of Crosses and Icons.

Another Africanized Cross are the Crosses of the Tuareg, the largest remaining Nomadic Peoples in Africa.

The most famous Tuareg Cross is the Agadez which is sometime confused for the Ethopian Orthodox Cross. Here the influcense is Islam and not Christianity.....Peace[/qb]

Tuff Gong' I'm glad you're in this thread. I'm learning so much from your posts.

I was aware of the Tuareg, but not of their crosses. This is the first link I've seen between Muslims and the cruciform, though according to the site I've visited, the Agadez cross is a holdover from Christianity, which came to the Tuareg people before Islam.

Agadez cross
. The site I got this photo from hints at pre-Christian pagan roots for such crosses among the Tuareg:

It also has been known to symbolize the four corners of the world. Originally, these were passed down from father to son. The father would say to the son: "My son, I give you the four corners of the world, because one can not know where one will die".

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Crosses and their symbolism

Originally posted by mountaingal:
[QBIt also has been known to symbolize the four corners of the world. Originally, these were passed down from father to son. The father would say to the son: "My son, I give you the four corners of the world, because one can not know where one will die".[/QB]

Like the Ethiopian Crosses the Taureg Crosses are named for different regions so Agadez is just one region there is also the Zinder Cross, The Cross of Tima, and other region specific Crosses. The Center of the Cross in Taureg Culture also repersents the Evil Eye according to Islam. The Agadez Cross have now become known in the Western World as a Fertality Symbol.

[Fledgist]

Re: Crosses and their symbolism

Originally posted by mountaingal:
[qb]

Originally posted by Fledgist:
[qb]MG, your source(s) seem to have left out the Cross of Lorraine, a symbol of some importance!

I think most crosses originate either as sun-symbols (the swastika, for example), or as crossroads symbols.

I'd forgotten that the Greek Cross originated as a symbol of Hecate. Curiously, she was a triple goddess. One wonders...[/qb]

Actually, I had come across the Cross of Lorraine and a number of others, but put up the ones for which internet sources and cross references were a lickle more plentiful.

[/qb]

It was also the symbol of the Free French during World War II.