Crosses and their symbolism

[Fledgist]

Re: Crosses and their symbolism

Originally posted by sukuna:
[qb]

Originally posted by Fledgist:
[qb]MG, your source(s) seem to have left out the Cross of Lorraine, a symbol of some importance!

I think most crosses originate either as sun-symbols (the swastika, for example), or as crossroads symbols.

I'd forgotten that the Greek Cross originated as a symbol of Hecate. Curiously, she was a triple goddess. One wonders...[/qb]

One wonders what?[/qb]

Whether this was a source for the idea of the trinity.

[mountaingal]

Re: Crosses and their symbolism

Tuff Gong, I'm wondering if some of those jewellery sites I'm visiting for info on Tuareg crosses are yours... as I recall you design and sell jewellery on the Internet.

I'm having to stretch my imagination a bit to consider the Tuareg icons as crosses - the circular or "eye" part of each seems to dominate the design, moreso than any cruciform effect. But I guess they may be seen as crosses because they each have four distinct points.

*I see designs like those and recall the irritation of Arab Muslims at the incorrigible paganism in African Islam.*

[rufian]

Re: Crosses and their symbolism

Originally posted by Fledgist:
[qb]

Originally posted by sukuna:
[qb]

Originally posted by Fledgist:
[qb]MG, your source(s) seem to have left out the Cross of Lorraine, a symbol of some importance!

I think most crosses originate either as sun-symbols (the swastika, for example), or as crossroads symbols.

I'd forgotten that the Greek Cross originated as a symbol of Hecate. Curiously, she was a triple goddess. One wonders...[/qb]

One wonders what?[/qb]

Whether this was a source for the idea of the trinity.[/qb]

3 could also mean 2, if it was an African context. IF

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Crosses and their symbolism

Originally posted by mountaingal:
[qb]Tuff Gong, I'm wondering if some of those jewellery sites I'm visiting for info on Tuareg crosses are yours... as I recall you design and sell jewellery on the Internet.
[/qb]

No none of them is mine. I do own a few and I am intending to base my designs on Adrinka and Taureg and other ancients Signs and Symbols.

Yes the eye is the Center of Islamic icons and the four point are also important. Although Ilam pretends not to hold Iconery above Allah, they have enough of them.... LOL

[Fledgist]

Re: Crosses and their symbolism

The first Spanish expeditions to Mexico came across Mayans who worshipped crosses as symbols of earth goddesses.

[Wahalla]

Re: Crosses and their symbolism

Originally posted by Tuff Gong:
[qb]

Originally posted by mountaingal:
[qb]Tuff Gong, I'm wondering if some of those jewellery sites I'm visiting for info on Tuareg crosses are yours... as I recall you design and sell jewellery on the Internet.
[/qb]

No none of them is mine. I do own a few and I am intending to base my designs on Adrinka and Taureg and other ancients Signs and Symbols.

Yes the eye is the Center of Islamic icons and the four point are also important. Although Ilam pretends not to hold Iconery above Allah, they have enough of them.... LOL[/qb]

Got a coffee table book on North African jewerly design... Thought the eye was a representation of Tanit the Phonecian goddess that evolved into Juno hence the virgin mary.... Usually in the middle of a hand as the third eye... I had assumed that this common icon on so many cars in North Africa was a throw back to its pagan past. (Usually 5 fingers and an eye in the middle of the palm set in a blue back ground.. Usually in Lapis Azulai)

Never really looked at the book properly.. Will review..

Now some one correct me... The first "old world" representation was the Ank, representng the Nile... Does the Sankrit crosses predate this ?

This is a nice thread.. No fuss no fight just information...

Yes Fledg, I seem to vaguely recall that Diaz does mention the crosses in History of Nw Spain. Also indrectly the frame that the Aztec used the for their scarifices would have been in the form of a X....St Andrews cross...

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Crosses and their symbolism

Originally posted by Wahalla:
[QBThought the eye was a representation of Tanit the Phonecian goddess that evolved into Juno hence the virgin mary.... Usually in the middle of a hand as the third eye... I had assumed that this common icon on so many cars in North Africa was a throw back to its pagan past. (Usually 5 fingers and an eye in the middle of the palm set in a blue back ground.. Usually in Lapis Azulai)

Never really looked at the book properly.. Will review....QB]

Well Wahalla remember they were Christians, before that Muslims and before that they were Africans.

In Islam The Hand of Fatima (daughter of the prophet Mohammed) is often placed on or above the entry door to ward of the evil eye and protect.

It is also called the Khamasa and is repersented by Hand displaying five outstreched fingers.

So now we have the the Evil Eye, Allah casting out the devil to the Four Corners of the Earth and the Hand with the Five Fingers. All are from Africa, all are rooted in Mythology used by Judiac and Paganic religions....Peace

[mountaingal]

Re: Crosses and their symbolism

Originally posted by Wahalla:
[qb]Now some one correct me... The first "old world" representation was the Ank, representng the Nile... Does the Sankrit crosses predate this ?[/qb]

According to one site, the swastika pre-dates the ankh, but it doesn't give comparative dates. Apparently, 1000BCE, or 3000 years ago, the swastika was a common symbol found on many an item.

Here's some additional info about the ankh:

The loop of the Ankh is held by the Gods. It is associated with Isis and Osiris in the Early Dynastic Period. The Loop of the Ankh also represent the feminine discipline or the (Womb), while the elongated section represent the masculine discipline or the (Penis).
...
The circle symbolizes eternal life and the cross below it represents the material plane.
...
The Ankh also resembles a key and is considered the key to eternal life after death. Its influence was felt in every dynastic period and survives as an icon possessing mystical power throughout the Coptic Christian era.

[rufian]

Re: Crosses and their symbolism

This is a critic:

This thread has been really informative.

However, you know how nice it would be if we were to focus some of that energy we are investing in learning about other people, to learn about our own theories, history and peoples? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
It is natural and normal. Isn't it?

I care more to know about African crosses than German, Italian, Irish or Greek ones. The starter of the thread left out African crosses and the two little crawny crosses which were brought in were last on the list. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
We can quote this and that land in Europe but if we manage to site an African country, it will be vague information, no exact location or culture known.

Well Lord? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]