Christian Women in Denial: Reactions are now Invited from Men

[Tropicana]

I had an experience today that left me [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] This type of reaction happens on a consistent basis and it always leaves me [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] I am sorry I just don't get it. Why are we in such denial? Let me break it down.

There is a Black, Jamaican man who goes to my church. He is separated from his wife, a Jamaican Chinese woman. They used to attend the church together with their children and they both still attend the church. He does some dating but it is never with a Black woman, always Chinese Jamaican women. I don't have a problem with that but I just want to make sure that the backdrop is clear and set the context for my conversation with him.

Anyway, we had not run into each other for a while. Our kids used to be on the same soccer team when he and his wife were still together. Somehow, we got onto the topic of dating and I indicated that a number of the Black Jamaican women I know were having a lot of problems w.r.t. dating as:

- it's difficult to meet Jamaican men who are Christians (see Pilot's thread)
- just because a man is Jamaican and Black does not automatically mean he is going to date a Jamaican woman (and I am not saying that he has to)
- and the White Christian men will (as a rule) not even consider dating a Black woman as a lot of them are a bunch of flippin' racists.

He said no way and appeared shocked (even though I have NEVER seen HIM with a Black woman). He then called his cousin over who has only recently started attending our church. She is a stunning Black, Jamaican woman and she is in her late thirties and single. He told her what I had said and asked her to tell me that it wasn't true.
Well, to make a long story short, she indicated that she had not perceived any problems. I said "Great. So I take it that you are dating on a regular basis." She then indicated that she could not tell when last she had a date as she won't date non-Christians and no Christian men have asked her out. She has been in Toronto for 4 years and has not had a date the whole time she has been here.

I was [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] and asked "Then how can you say there is no problem?". She said "If the men are not showing an interest in me then clearly they are not God's choice for me." She then said that she was confident that God was capable of bringing the right man for her into her life when the time was right. I said "Not if all the committed SO CALLED Christian men are programmed to select women on the basis of Hollywood standards of beauty." I pointed out that men have a free will and God was not going to hit them over the head and force them to obey Him, choose women by Godly standards of internal beauty if they chose to let Hollywood and Madison Avenue dictate their preferences and discriminate on the basis of race to boot.

I pointed around the room and showed her that ALL the Blonde women were all with men (a lot of them were flaunting it) and that the Black women (except for some older couples who met and married in Jamaica) were all alone. Even the men who were Greek or Italain in origin and had dark features were married to or dating blondes. I then said this could not possibly be God's will for ALL the Black women to be alone and ALL the blonde women to have partners. She then responded that if the men had racial prejudices and hang-ups they were clearly not God's choice for her and that she was willing to wait on the Lord to bring her the right person and content to be single for the rest of her life if He didn't. I said to her cousin. "See what I mean. Our churches are filled with Jamaican women who think like your cousin....women who INSIST that there is no problem when they have no dates and who insist are content to be single and 'wait on the Lord' and here is yet another one."

I'm sorry I just don't get it. Maybe it's because I didn't grow up back home that I see things differently. I don't know. Why can't we get that there is nothing normal or natural about this situation? White women are not told to wait on the Lord and be content to be single. Why are we so quick to swallow that line? Even Christian books and magazines catering to White women focus on tips to attract the right man and keep him happy. Why are we in such denial? Why do we insist that there is no problem when our very eyes tell us things are out of whack? Sorry this is just not a normal way of thinking and I find it VERY [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[Guest]

Re: Christian Women in Denial: Reactions are now Invited from Men

So after church tonight, I was standing in the lobby waiting for my daughter to get out of choir practice. Brother Choir member (I won't mention his colour) came up to me, shock my hand, held on to it that I had to politely remove it. He commented how lovely I looked, that he loved my top and that I should remember that he's a man even though he's on the choir. I smiled, wished him a great evening and went further down the hallway to wait for my daughter. Oh yes, I forgot to mention he's been flirting with me like crazy for months now but I have no interest in him.

Compry scratching her head and wondering: What's the point to my post? Oh well, I thought it was funny.

[Tropicana]

Re: Christian Women in Denial: Reactions are now Invited from Men

Sounds great Compry. Glad you're sparking some interest.

As you know, I did attend a Christian singles conference at your church. There were a TON of single (Black) women, very few (Black) men on their own. Most of the Black women were without partners. I saw a few (maybe 4 - 6 Black guys). None of the men Black or White seemed to be taking any interest in the Black women. Come to think of it the Black men were pretty much sitting on their own. Maybe they were just shy.
Now I know they didn't all come from your church but that's what I observed on the day I visited. The demographics on the singles Bible study didn't sound too promising either.

Anyway, none of the single men at my church or the other churches (over 30) and Christian singles events I've visited in the GTA would even LOOK at a Black woman. I rarely run into Black men in church or at church events. I've compared notes with MANY women and they are all saying the same thing. It's the "Oh this doesn't bother me part." I don't get. Please shed some light on that for me.

[JABrownin']

Re: Christian Women in Denial: Reactions are now Invited from Men

Originally posted by Tropicana:
[qb] I had an experience today that left me [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] This type of reaction happens on a consistent basis and it always leaves me [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] I am sorry I just don't get it. Why are we in such denial? Let me break it down.

There is a Black, Jamaican man who goes to my church. He is separated from his wife, a Jamaican Chinese woman. They used to attend the church together with their children and they both still attend the church. He does some dating but it is never with a Black woman, always Chinese Jamaican women. I don't have a problem with that but I just want to make sure that the backdrop is clear and set the context for my conversation with him.

Anyway, we had not run into each other for a while. Our kids used to be on the same soccer team when he and his wife were still together. Somehow, we got onto the topic of dating and I indicated that a number of the Black Jamaican women I know were having a lot of problems w.r.t. dating as:

- it's difficult to meet Jamaican men who are Christians (see Pilot's thread)
- just because a man is Jamaican and Black does not automatically mean he is going to date a Jamaican woman
- and the White Christian men will (as a rule) not even consider dating a Black woman as a lot of them are a bunch of flippin' racists.

He said no way and appeared shocked (even though I have NEVER seen HIM with a Black woman). He then called his cousin over who has only recently started attending our church. She is a stunning Black, Jamaican woman and she is in her late thirties and single. He told her what I had said and asked her to tell me that it wasn't true. Well, to make a long story short, she indicated that she had not perceived any problems. I said "Great. So I take it that you are dating on a regular basis." She then indicated that she could not tell when last she had a date as she won't date non-Christians and no Christian men have asked her out. She has been in Toronto for 4 years and has not had a date the whole time. I was [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] and asked "Then how can you say there is no problem?". She said "If the men are not showing an interest in me then clearly they are not God's choice for me." She then said that she was confident that God was capable of bringing the right man for her into her life when the time was right. I said "Not if all the committed SO CALLED Christian men are programmed to select women on the basis of Hollywood standards of beauty." I pointed out that men have a free will and God was not going to hit them over the head and force them to obey Him, choose women by Godly standards of internal beauty if they chose to let Hollywood and Madison Avenue dictate their preferences and discriminate on the basis of race to boot.

I pointed around the room and showed her that ALL the Blonde women were all with men (a lot of them were flaunting it) and that the Black women (except for some older couples who met and married in Jamaica) were all alone. Even the men who were Greek or Italain in origin and had dark features were married to or dating blondes. I then said this could not possibly be God's will for ALL the Black women to be alone and ALL the blonde women to have partners. She then responded that if the men had racial prejudices and hang-ups they were clearly not God's choice for her and that she was willing to wait on the Lord to bring her the right person and content to be single for the rest of her life if He didn't. I said to her cousin. "See what I mean. Our churches are filled with Jamaican women who think like your cousin....women who INSIST that there is no problem when they have no dates and who insist are content to be single and 'wait on the Lord' and here is yet another one."

I'm sorry I just don't get it. Maybe it's because I didn't grow up back home that I see things differently. I don't know. Why can't we get that there is nothing normal or natural about this situation? White women are not told to wait on the Lord and be content to be single. Why are we so quick to swallow that line? Even Christian books and magazines catering to White women focus on tips to attract the right man and keep him happy. Why are we in such denial? Why do we insist that there is no problem when our very eyes tell us things are out of whack? Sorry this is just not a normal way of thinking and I find it VERY [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [/qb]

GOOD GOD
you are the typical whiny black women
did it ever occur to you that those black women do not have a problem finding dates and its just you???
if they don't see a problem, who are you to say that the problem exists for them.
lol@ your obvious hatred (jealousy) for blondes
you are pathetic

[Tropicana]

Re: Christian Women in Denial: Reactions are now Invited from Men

GOOD GOD
you are the typical whiny black women
did it ever occur to you that those black women do not have a problem finding dates and
its just you???
If they don't see a problem, who are you to say that the problem exists for them.

Please re-read my post.

I made it CLEAR that these Black women ARE having problems finding dates. THAT is the point of my post. I go to function after function and see the Black women ignored. NOT JUST ME. This is painful obvious at funcitons involving dancing when ALL the Black women are sitting there because no one will ask us to dance. These women I am talking about don't have dates and yet they say there is not problem. This makes NO sense to me. The woman I referred to has not had a date in YEARS and yet she is insisting there is no problem. I am asking for some help in understanding this. It feels like the Twilight Zone when people are obviously being shunned and they smile and say there is no problem.

Please, lets stick to the topic and leave the personal insults out of it.

[kthydvs]

Re: Christian Women in Denial: Reactions are now Invited from Men

Tropicana, have you considered that dating might be the furthest thing from these women's minds and therefore is not an issue for them. I know of lots of single black women, well into their 40's/50's, dare i say it still virgins, but they are very happy to be serving God without the distraction of a "man" to care for.

[Tropicana]

Re: Christian Women in Denial: Reactions are now Invited from Men

Kumba1, I am sorry it is just not normal for a grown adult woman to NOT be interested in relationships with the opposite sex. Not normal and not healthy. I do realize that there are some who do put the thoughts of dating and marriage on hold to focus on serving the Lord for a season. Paul does speak about this. These women are not in full time missionary work or Christian service and they are not nuns who have taken a lifetime vow of chastity. Some people are called to that. However, this does not reflect the high number of Black women you see sitting around by themselves year after year in many of the churches. Are you going to tell me that the Black women are called to do this in such LARGE numbers and the Blondes are not? I don't buy that.

These women have not said they are not interested in dating. They have said they don't perceive the fact that they don't have dates as a problem. They are interested in dating and getting married but feel that it's all in the Lord's hand and they are content to wait on the Lord for his timing even when it is painfully obvious that there are racial factors and dynamics at play. I feel that when we don't call these situations for what they are and pretend they are not happening, we are letting our so-called Christian brothers off the hook when it comes to racism. In other words, we are playing along with it and perpetuating it.

[Guest]

Re: Christian Women in Denial: Reactions are now Invited from Men

Oh yes Tropicana, I even spark interest from non-christians. Funny thing is, I'm not looking. I'm just not interested in dating.

In any case, you know that the closest I ever get to one of those singles' classes or conferences is when I pass by the room. Same thing for a lot of the single males in my church, they just don't attend.

I am not going to pretend that there are fewer real christian men in the church but keep this in mind...not all single women are looking.

A christian girlfriend dropped by my place yesterday to talk. She wants to get out of her relationship with her christian man because she wants to focus more on her spiritual growth. Go figure.

[Suesumba]

Re: Christian Women in Denial: Reactions are now Invited from Men

(((((((((((special questions))))))))

[JABrownin']

Re: Christian Women in Denial: Reactions are now Invited from Men

Originally posted by Tropicana:
[qb]

I made it CLEAR that these Black women ARE having problems finding dates. THAT is the point of my post. I go to function after function and see the Black women ignored. NOT JUST ME. This is painful obvious at funcitons involving dancing when ALL the Black women are sitting there because no one will ask us to dance. These women I am talking about don't have dates and yet they say there is not problem. This makes NO sense to me. The woman I referred to has not had a date in YEARS and yet she is insisting there is no problem. I am asking for some help in understanding this. It feels like the Twilight Zone when people are obviously being shunned and they smile and say there is no problem.

Please, lets stick to the topic and leave the personal insults out of it. [/qb]

oh please
just admit YOU have a problem finding dates and so instead of concentrating on your faults you want to make this into a "black woman problem"- so you don't feel isolated. And these black woman are not playing along with your agenda.

As for the woman who has not had a date for years, how do you know this is because she does not want to date at the moment, or is not interested in those who ask her out on dates. Furthermore how do you know that this bothers her, ESPECIALLY when she says it doesn't.

You are obviously very insecure 1) because you feel you are being shunned everywhere you go and 2) your constant reference to blondes

tell me what is it about blondes that makes you feel so inferior?

[Tropicana]

Re: Christian Women in Denial: Reactions are now Invited from Men

I agree with you Compry, sparking interest in non-Christians is not a problem in fact that is who I now date and I am dating regularly.

Suesumba, you know that the Special Questions series is one of my specialities. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

In answer to the questions about the women's interest in dating, I know that they are interested in dating because they have TOLD me that they are interested in dating.

Again I request that we keep this thread focused on the issue....Black Jamaican Christian women in denia....l and leave the personal put downs out of this thread. Thank you.

[JABrownin']

Re: Christian Women in Denial: Reactions are now Invited from Men

Originally posted by Compry:
[qb] I'm just not interested in dating.

[/qb]

hmmmmmm so why is she willing to except this from you, but won't from "all these black women sitting alone at church"?

[kthydvs]

Re: Christian Women in Denial: Reactions are now Invited from Men

Tropicana, i am a full-grown adult female who is not at all interested in dating or having a relationship with a man (or woman so as not to confuse the issue). But i see myself as healthy and normal. my life is so busy that i would not have the time needed to devote to a relationship. by the way i could apss for "blonde" and i know of plenty of us as well that are not dating. it really is not an issue. can i ask is your arguement about black women not being able to find partners because black men are finding partners of other races? in my congregation we have black men with white women, black women with white men, black men with asian women, asian men with white women, black single men, white single men, black, white ans asian single women. and that is just my congreagtion. perhaps your need is going before you or maybe you need to broaden your horizons.

[Tropicana]

Re: Christian Women in Denial: Reactions are now Invited from Men

Originally posted by kumba1:
[qb] Tropicana, i am a full-grown adult female who is not at all interested in dating or having a relationship with a man (or woman so as not to confuse the issue). But i see myself as healthy and normal. my life is so busy that i would not have the time needed to devote to a relationship. by the way i could apss for "blonde" and i know of plenty of us as well that are not dating. it really is not an issue. can i ask is your arguement about black women not being able to find partners because black men are finding partners of other races? in my congregation we have black men with white women, black women with white men, black men with asian women, asian men with white women, black single men, white single men, black, white ans asian single women. and that is just my congreagtion. perhaps your need is going before you or maybe you need to broaden your horizons. [/qb]

No this is not focusing on Black women not being able to find partners because Black men are dating women of other races. It's about Black women (in this case Jamaican) denyingthat the fact that THEY are being shunned by men of other races who call themselves Christians is a problem. (In other words, they recognize it's happening but then hide behind this "I'm waiting on the Lord, interested in dating but content to be single until God brings me the right person" mask instead of confronting racism head on.

In terms of broadening my horizons, I have. I give up on these racist Christian guys. I have done my due diligence attending TONS of churches and Christian singles events in the GTA. Everywhere I go it's the same scenario, one or two Black men (Compry's church was an exception) and a ton of Black women being ignored. I haven't been in the UK in years but when I was recently in Paris, I did notice a much broader range of couples across all races similar to what you described at your church Kumba1. (Mind you I didn't go to church when I was there but just walking down the street that is what I saw.)

While this isn't the case in 100% of the discussions, I notice that it is the women born and raised in Jamaican who tend to say there is no problem, I am focusing on the Lord. The ones raised here in Canada will tend to admit there is a problem and label the racism for what it is.

Kumba1 please help me out here because I'm sorry I just don't get it. How could so many normal, healthy adult women NOT be interested in men? I am having a really hard time buying that and understanding it.

[kthydvs]

Re: Christian Women in Denial: Reactions are now Invited from Men

First off let me invite you to visit me when and if you ever get to the UK. You will probably get a different perspective on "black" christian men.

As for your question i can only answer for me. i am totally fulfilled in my life. if i need solace i go to God, if i need help with a problem I go to God, i share my life with him, the ups and the downs. Quite honestly the only thing missing from my life is the intimate relationship one has with a partner. but as i don't miss it in a physical sense, my life is full. i cannot see at this time, what having a partner could do to enrich my life or add to it in anyway. don't get me wrong, there are times when i get lonely, but i have an abundance of friends. i remember when i was in a relationship and there is nothing worse than being lonely and alone when you should have a partner who is complementary to you. now, that i found difficult to deal with. i only wish i had an answer for you, because i have felt your anguish and frustration on a number of occasions.