Do Jamaican men scorn the Christian religion?

[PILOT]

Is it true that Jamaican men in general avoid religion and in particular the Churches at all cost.

The cold shoulder behaviour has existed for some time among some Jamaican men yet many believe its now a major trend.

As you prepare to make your reply,click thru and read the following article.

Refusing to embrace God...the Jamaican male story

<a href="http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20020325/flair/flair1.html" target="_blank">https://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/glea...ir/flair1.html
</a>

The question again Do You think more Jamaican men are scorning religion ? Thanks for participating... [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Tropicana]

Re: Do Jamaican men scorn the Christian religion?

Well I am going to risk sharing my views on this one. These things need to be said. They should have been said a LONG time ago. You have posted a very interesting article Pilot.

According to the Statistical Institute of Jamaica's data, between 1982 to 1991 an average church in Jamaica had a membership of 200 people, with 166 females to 34 males. The national male/female ratio is 17:83.

Many Jamaican men are hip to the fact that churches are not walking the talk. Evangelical Christians in particular are notorious for discriminating against people who are not White. Then, these same churches turn around and send members of their congregation on short, medium and long term missionary assignments to countries where the majority of the people are not White. I have seen some of the same men who shun me as a Black women (even going so far as to say they don't find Black skin attractive) turn around and go on short term missionary assignments to countries where most of the people are Black or volunteer at Christian camps where there are Black children. It is a disgrace!!

LACK OF 'CHURCH MEN', A DILEMMA FOR CHRISTIAN WOMEN

One of the most pressing problems of the church is the plight of some of the very faithful single women who have become disillusioned because of the lack of eligible men for them to marry.

It's interesting that I have raised this issue time and time again on this very board and been attacked. Here we have yet another article, this time in The Gleaner, addressing this issue. Are we still going to insist that there is no problem?

As Christians, we are very reluctant to speak out against the sin of racism. It's like s-s-sh, don't talk about it, someone will hear you. Let's pretend it's not there and maybe people won't notice it. Well people DO notice it and it's turning them off to Christianity. Men in particular have a low tolerance for this hypocrisy and game playing. I have noticed up here in Toronto that even Jamaican men who have gone to church all their lives shy away after they visit a few churches or Christian organizations and get the cold shoulder. For some reason, we women just keep going to church, smiling and participating in the great conspiracy of silence.

[Guest]

Re: Do Jamaican men scorn the Christian religion?

Originally posted by Tropicana:
[qb] Well I am going to risk sharing my views on this one. These things need to be said. They should have been said a LONG time ago.

According to the Statistical Institute of Jamaica's data, between 1982 to 1991 an average church in Jamaica had a membership of 200 people, with 166 females to 34 males. The national male/female ratio is 17:83.

Many Jamaican men are hip to the fact that churches are not walking the talk. Evangelical Christians in particular are notorious for discriminating against people who are not White. Then, these same churches turn around and send members of their congregation on short, medium and long term missionary assignments to countries where the majority of the people are not White. I have seen some of the same men who shun me as a Black women (even going so far as to say they don't find Black skin attractive) and turn around and go on short term missionary assignments to countries where most of the people are Black or volunteer at Christian camps where there are Black children.

LACK OF 'CHURCH MEN', A DILEMMA FOR CHRISTIAN WOMEN

One of the most pressing problems of the church is the plight of some of the very faithful single women who have become disillusioned because of the lack of eligible men for them to marry.

It's interesting that I have raised this issue time and time again on this very board and been attacked. Here we have yet another article, this time in The Gleaner, addressing this issue. Are we still going to insist that there is no problem?

As Christians, we are very reluctant to speak out against the since of racism. It's like s-s-sh, don't talk about it, someone will hear you. Let's pretend it's not there and maybe people won't notice it. Well people do notice it. I have noticed up here in Toronto that even Jamaican men who have gone to church all their lives shy away after they visit a few churches or Christian organizations and get the cold shoulder. For some reason, we women just keep going to church and participating in the great conspiracy of silence. [/qb]

Did you read the question or the article? Oppps...you changed your entire post.

[Tropicana]

Re: Do Jamaican men scorn the Christian religion?

I read both the question:

Do You think more Jamaican men are scorning religion ?

and the article (I have quoted from the article) and I am sharing my views as to one of the main reasons we see this problem in the churches.

Sorry Compry, you responded before I had finished my post...I was busy polishing and copying quotes from the article. Still want to add a few more (you're just too quick for me [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] )

[Guest]

Re: Do Jamaican men scorn the Christian religion?

Originally posted by Tropicana:
[qb] I read both the question and the article and I am sharing my views as to one of the main reasons we see this problem in the churches. [/qb]

I believe the focus of the article is on Jamaican men scorning religion in Jamaica.

[Tropicana]

Re: Do Jamaican men scorn the Christian religion?

...and the focus of MY comments is one of the MAIN reasons why Jamaican men in Jamaica and abroad are scorning religion...racism. Jamaican men in Jamaica are not insulated from what goes on outside Jamaica. When we migrate and encounter discrimination in the churches and church organizations both on and on campus we do share this with our relatives in Jamaica. (Maybe we don't speak out about it publically, maybe when faced with discrimination we smile politely, pretend it's not happening and don't confront the offender, but we DO share our pain with our families and close friends.) So, Jamaican men ARE hip to what is going on abroad and the hypocrisy of many of the churches when it comes to racism. I have repeatedly heard Jamaican men identify this as the reason why they dismiss Christianity as a White man's religion...their words, not mine. Even Marcus Garvey, one of our national leaders and a devout Christian, expressed these concerns.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Do Jamaican men scorn the Christian religion?

As a Jamaican man,(yes I'm) I find the church generally condisending to it's members and hypocrital in it's actions.

As my signature states" their action speak so loud, I cant hear what they are saying.

I don't scorn religion,but I simply see them by their actions rather their pronounsements.

[Guest]

Re: Do Jamaican men scorn the Christian religion?

"Men don't like the emotional-stuff, and the sharing and caring stuff, and the confessing. Men don't trust the getting into the spirit thing," he said.

Pastor Donald Stewart of the Covenant Christian Church believes that women are more emotional and trusting and so are able to respond better to religion.

Pilot, there may be a lot of truth to these statements.

[Tropicana]

Re: Do Jamaican men scorn the Christian religion?

Exactly Dr. Dudd. I will now stay out of this discussion. I am very curious to hear what other Jamaican men have to say about the article. Also, men, have you ever heard any Jamaican men dismiss Christianity because of racism and the fact that they perceive it as a White man's religion?

Thank you for starting this thread Pilot.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Do Jamaican men scorn the Christian religion?

Men don't like the emotional-stuff, and the sharing and caring stuff, and the confessing. Men don't trust the getting into the spirit thing," he said.

Emotional,simply means illogical.In other words without reason,now which clear thinking person would?

Pastor Donald Stewart of the Covenant Christian Church believes that women are more emotional and trusting and so are able to respond better to religion.


Is it a strength pr a weakness,to allow others that you know to be less than honest to lead you or is it a strength?

Unless you believe men are gods and other men should just follow them like mindless robuts.

[RollinCalf]

Re: Do Jamaican men scorn the Christian religion?

Rastafarians have been saying this ( "Jamaican men dismiss Christianity because of racism and the fact that they perceive it as a White man's religion" ) for many years.

I am curious about something though, I get the impression that this is not as big a problem in the Seventh Day Adventist church. I wonder why, or am I wrong ?

[Tropicana]

Re: Do Jamaican men scorn the Christian religion?

Can we please get more reactions from Jamaican men on this one?

[PILOT]

Re: Do Jamaican men scorn the Christian religion?

Tropics dem naah pay yuh nuh mind...??

Maybe this might interest you, to find out that Jamaican men are at risk greater than their female counterparts and as Claude Mills, Gleaner Staff Reporter, says the women may be the ones leading the men astray.--------------------------------

WITH MORE women receiving university degrees and rising to positions of power, the scenario of male workers being sexually harassed by female supervisors is becoming more plausible.

In Jamaica, women hold 15 per cent of all managerial and supervisory positions and most are inclined to play the power game.

In most harassment cases, whether the assailant is male or female, the main motive is not romance but power. Sexual harassment is an exercise in power politics. Experts in gender studies note, however, that most people do not realise the nuances involved.

The scenario has even given rise to a Hollywood movie, Disclosure, starring Demi Moore and Michael Douglas, which examined sexual harassment from a male point of view.

While the ultra-macho culture cultivated by Jamaican maledom may find it hard to fathom a female boss' come-on as an affront, when it happens it is nevertheless harassment.

"It happens. I've heard stories but I have never really encountered a situation like that in my professional experiences," says Laura Butler, a Kingston-based human resource consultant.

"It is usually the other way around where men put women in a position where they seek to manipulate and control them, and hope to in time, wear down their defences," adds Ms. Butler. "If there are cases of sexual harassment against men, it is just as deplorable as with women because no one should be made to feel uncomfortable, or no one should use their power as a tool to make you do things you would not ordinarily do."

According to one US agency, in that country men represent one out of 10 of all sexual harassment cases, and the numbers are steadily rising.

MORE OF A PRIVILEGE

"In this society, a man would not complain. It would be more of a privilege," says Lancelot O'Connor, a 26-year-old teacher who was recently featured in Flair's Men at Work series. "I have never been sexually harassed but on odd occasions, at school and at university, some women have come on to me

very aggressively so I know what it is like for a woman to shower unwanted attention, but I don't think a Jamaican man would even complain if it happened to him."

According to studies, when a man falls victim to harassment by a female, more than 50 per cent of the cases allege a demand for sex -- Quid Pro Quo -- in order to retain a job or receive a promotion. In contrast, quid pro quo is only evident in 15 per cent of female victims' cases.

"In this region, the main dilemma a man faces when he is harassed by a woman is that it would be almost an embarrassment for him to complain," says Ainsley Deer a management consultant in Kingston.

"One, the police would laugh, and two, he would be ridiculed by his peers in the workplace...a Jamaican man would be reluctant to speak out for fear that he would be humiliated and ostracised by his co-workers. In the Caribbean, it is thought that a man cannot be sexually harassed by a woman."

Psychologists maintain that the concept of male sexual harassment victim cases, can sometimes present problems due to society's stereotypes of women and men.

"Our minds maintain the assumption that males find sexual advances from women non-threatening and even enjoyable, but this is not necessarily true. Procedures for dealing with harassment cases should be consistent, regardless of gender or status. They should treat every complaint confidentially, investigate each thoroughly and take appropriate and immediate disciplinary action," suggests one human resource manager.

MALE-ON-MALE HARASSMENT

Deer has an 'interesting' take on a male-on-male sexual harassment scenario. "If it were a man harassing another man in the workplace, now that's a completely different matter. Most heterosexual men cannot even conceive being approached by another man, and that would be a cause for some amount of discomfort, I can imagine," he said.

Dr. Leachim Semaj, psychologist and president of the JobBank in Kingston, says he has seen "a case where a young man went to work for a prominent man in society who immediately told him that the last fellow who started with him as an attendant ended up leaving as an accountant, and suggested the same might happen to him if the young man was good to him.

"At first, the young man didn't understand but when the man locked the door and began to make advances, he was so shocked, he didn't even get angry, he was too terrified, he ran out of the office, and all the way to Portmore (St. Catherine)."

"He refused to play along with the advances but apparently, there were a lot of young men who were willing to 'work with the programme'," adds Dr. Semaj.

Claude ends by speaking about a
NEED TO REINSTALL VALUES which brings us back to the topic do Jamaican men scorn religion to their own peril.

Laura Butler remains adamant that Jamaican workplaces need to become more "businesslike and professional in their approach to employee relations".

"We need to implement and enforce laws to govern our society. There are too many important things out there to discover, and to channel our collective energies to achieve, and grow as a nation. We need to reinstil values in our way of life."

[neutral]

Re: Do Jamaican men scorn the Christian religion?

Originally posted by Dr.Dudd:
[qb] As a Jamaican man,(yes I'm) I find the church generally condisending to it's members and hypocrital in it's actions.


but I simply see them by their actions rather their pronounsements. [/qb]

my exact sentiments.

[Tropicana]

Re: Do Jamaican men scorn the Christian religion?

Tropics dem naah pay yuh nuh mind...??

And this surprises you? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Very interesting article. Another boardite posted something along these lines in my thread on denial among Black Jamaican Christian women (mi noh memba a who).

BTW, never did get any comments from you on that one. Would love to hear from you, accepted, and servant? (I know I originally asked for reactions from women.)