Do Jamaican men scorn the Christian religion?

[Diplomat]

Re: Do Jamaican men scorn the Christian religion?

Originally posted by Tropicana:
Also, men, have you ever heard any Jamaican men dismiss Christianity because of racism and the fact that they perceive it as a White man's religion?

No, but I heard hypocrisy mentioned quite a lot,

[Tropicana]

Re: Do Jamaican men scorn the Christian religion?

You grew up in Jamaica and you have never heard that CEW? Do you not know any Rastafarians or political activists?

[blugiant]

Re: Do Jamaican men scorn the Christian religion?

only dem christian churches whey dem white man a preach me dismiss cause a racism. me alway a joke dat dem white christians go to africa and give de black man de white bible and tek de black man land. dat hyprocrisy or racism. black women are more like sheeps dat why dem more likely fi follow.

[Tropicana]

Re: Do Jamaican men scorn the Christian religion?

blugiant, for once we are in agreement. How DARE them go on missionary trips to Africa, Jamaica and other Black countries and preach when they discriminate Black people in their own congregations!!!! One of the very men who abruptly stopped communicating with me on a Christian singles site (eharmony which I have since found out is NOT a Christian site and had only been marketed as such) as soon as I told him I was Black, departed a few months later on a short term missionary trip to a Black country. He had already sent his picture through to me so, when I realized it was someone with whom I had had some contact, I called him up, gently asked him about why he had behaved that way and then blasted him when he started playing games.

These racist have driven our men out of the church, openly shun Black Christian women and then have the never fe chat bout unequally yoked when we date the men who WILL go out with us. HYPOCRITES!!

However, one small correction about your post, the Bible is not White. God used middle eastern people to write it. They are not White.

Oh and not all Black Christian women are like sheep but some are in denial. Please refer to my thread on Black Jamaican Christian women in denial.

[Rev James]

Re: Do Jamaican men scorn the Christian religion?

The attitude and behaviors of the pastors and Christians is turning off the people.
Jamaican people on whole do not scorn at God, every one of us was brought up in Sunday school.
It is just the attitude of pastors, the way how they go begging for money, the way how they made the gospel over expensive. If a woman living in common-law marriage, and she get save she must leave the man, then when she leave, her children get no support and the church that tell them to left the man will not give them a cup of tea. Then the pastors get scared when the young men who get save start to preach. Fearing that he she might come to preach a better sermon.

[Diplomat]

Re: Do Jamaican men scorn the Christian religion?

Originally posted by Tropicana:
[qb] You grew up in Jamaica and you have never heard that CEW? Do you not know any Rastafarians or political activists? [/qb]

Yes to both questions. I have never heard racism mentioned as a reason, and I have heard talk among Rastafarians that Jesus was black. What I can tell you however is that what I have heard during my teens and beyond was that the Church did not address the real needs of its constituents - its message centered on waiting until one gets to Heaven, yada, yada - and men being the way they are, some deemed it irrelevant. Frankly, I can understand their point of view as for a very long time I felt that the church packaged - and some still do - its message as an insurance policy for the afterlife.

[Tropicana]

Re: Do Jamaican men scorn the Christian religion?

Interesting. Well I have heard it a LOT from Rastarafians, Black Muslims, men who are socialistic or left leaning politically, and many other Jamaican men. I used to work at a place where there were a lot of Jamaican men working as as skills tradesman (shucks I was married a the time [img]/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] ) and I used to hear a lot of those men also say the same thing. Over and over again I have heard Jamaican men say that Christianity is a White man's religion, White evangelical Christians tend to be racist and don't walk the talk and Chrisitians (at the time they were talking about White Christians) are hypocrites. There is a perception problem and even many Jamaican men who were raised in the church don't bother going back when they come to Canada and encounter discriminaiton in the very house of God. Seems from The Gleaaner article that men are turning their back on the Christian faith in Jamaica too.

[Diplomat]

Re: Do Jamaican men scorn the Christian religion?

Tropi: I am not taking issue with what you heard. However, seeing a significant number of Churches in JA have black ministers, I find it interesting that race would be used as a factor there. Then again, you know my position that racial problems is just one of the black-eyes the Church suffers from, and that because it is present in SOME places, it becomes everyone's favorite horse to jump on. Had I not known God for myself, chances are good I would consider the Church irrelevant too and it has nothing to do with race. I think we should try to look at the broader picture instead of being so narrow in focus. If we accept that it is just because the Church is perceived as racist, why would it be such a huge factor with the men, but not the women?

There is a significant number of our men in prisons. Could that also be a part of why more of them are not in our Churches?

In an earlier post you stated: "...and the focus of MY comments is one of the MAIN reasons why Jamaican men in Jamaica and abroad are scorning religion...racism." I am very interested in knowing, from your perspective and what you may have heard, some of the other reasons Jamaican men are turned off from the Church.

[Diplomat]

Re: Do Jamaican men scorn the Christian religion?

Another point of view, though it centers on men in general. With the exception of the title, the portions in bold and italics were the ones I thought were very interesting.

Why are men less religious? It may be form of risk-taking just as criminal behavior is

For decades researchers have pondered a mysterious gender disparity in religious commitment. It turns out they may have been asking the wrong question, according to a University of Washington religious scholar.
Instead of asking why women are more religious than men, they should have been asking why men are less religious than women, said Rodney Stark, a UW professor of sociology and comparative religion.

"When you turn the question around it starts to get us somewhere and the evidence pretty strongly points to physiology, not socialization," said Stark, author of two papers exploring what seems to be a universal trend in religious rates around the world.

Stark said lower rates of male religiousness is a form of risk-taking behavior just as criminality is, and men are far more likely to commit crimes than women.

"Any phenomenon that occurs in many and very different social and cultural settings necessitates explanations that are equally general, which tends to rule out most social and cultural factors," he wrote in the Journal for the Scientific Study of Religion.

"Recent studies of biochemistry imply that both male irreligiousness and male lawlessness are rooted in the fact that far more males than females have an underdeveloped ability to inhibit their impulses, especially those involving immediate gratification and thrills."

The upshot is that some men are shortsighted and don't think ahead, and so "going to prison or going to hell just doesn't matter to these men," Stark said.

To examine rates of religiosity, Stark used the World Values Surveys, which collected data in 57 nations. The world's major faiths were included and the data came from such countries as the United States, most European states, Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, Japan, China, India, South Africa and Turkey. In all 57 countries, a higher percentage of women than men said they were religious.

"The gender differences hold up everywhere, even in religions that are very male centered, such as Orthodox Judaism," said Stark. "This is not some fragile finding, and the fact that it shows up in so many cultures says something."

He added that these rates of religiousness are not just a phenomenon of our time. "It is true of all ages. It was there in ancient Greece, it was there in the Roman Empire when the early Christians were mostly women and it was there in medieval Europe."

In the second paper, published in the American Journal of Sociology, Stark and co-author Alan Miller, a sociologist at the University of Hokkaido in Japan, looked at how the role of traditional gender socialization and differences in social power influence gender differences in religiousness.

They dismiss popular explanations such as that women are raised to be nurturing and submissive and this socialization makes religious acceptance and commitment more likely. Similarly, they reject the notion that women are more religious because they don't work outside the home and have more free time to engage in religious activities. A number of studies, they said, have shown that career women are just as religious as those who stay at home and both are far more religious than their male peers or spouses.

"It appears that neither (gender socialization or social power) have a relationship to gender differences in religiousness. Amazingly, these results hold across time periods, cohorts, religious traditions and cultures," they wrote.

"We looked for an obvious simple explanation, but nothing worked except physiology," said Stark. "People studying crime also have looked at socialization and they can't find a reason that explains the gender difference except a physiological one. Not being religious is similar to any other shortsighted, risky and impulsive behavior that some men – primarily young males – engage in, such as assault, robbery, burglary, murder and rape."

Contact: Joel Schwarz
[email protected]
University of Washington

Source

Could they possibly have a point?

[Tropicana]

Re: Do Jamaican men scorn the Christian religion?

Tropi: I am not taking issue with what you heard. However, seeing a significant number of Churches in JA have black ministers, I find it interesting that race would be used as a factor there.

People in every part of the world, including Jamaica, have heard about the deplorable manner in which Blacks have been treated in the US and the hypocrisy of the church w.r.t. this )and other issues. Why do you think many countries no longer allow missionaries within their borders? When a man or woman comes to the US or Canada and encounters discrimination whether it be in the church or some other sphere of life, we do confide in our friends and relatives back home, People knw what's going on.

[Tropicana]

Re: Do Jamaican men scorn the Christian religion?

it becomes everyone's favorite horse to jump on.

Really?? Not on this board it isn't.

If we accept that it is just because the Church is perceived as racist, why would it be such a huge factor with the men, but not the women?

Good question. Remember those twin threads King Dahjah and I did a while back?

In an earlier post you stated: "...and the focus of MY comments is one of the MAIN reasons why Jamaican men in Jamaica and abroad are scorning religion...racism." I am very interested in knowing, from your perspective and what you may have heard, some of the other reasons Jamaican men are turned off from the Church.

I will PM you on that one okay CEW. I get attacked enough on this board already but I will let you know privately the reasons some Jamaican men have given me for not going to church.

Check your PM.

As for the research you are quoting. I have heard something along those lines before. However, those are not the reasons men give for not going to church. If the research is true, that would be saying it's Gods fault as he designed men that way. I doubt that.

[LadyDayshah]

Re: Do Jamaican men scorn the Christian religion?

Jamaican men scawn Christianity becaw dem nuh agree wid sum ah de guidelines/principles(whateva)-dem nuh agree wid de views pon fornication,adultery,drugs,drunkeness,juss trying to do tings dat can onli bettah dem lives.dem nuh haffi pay mind tuh de hypocrites and use dat as an excuse fi scawn.many times de hypocrites werse awf enyway.ow dem ahguh let dat hoal dem back?????dem muss tink dat if dem tun christian dem ahguh end up doing de same ting-being hypocritical.

[Fledgist]

Re: Do Jamaican men scorn the Christian religion?

Originally posted by LadyDayshah:
[qb] Jamaican men scawn Christianity becaw dem nuh agree wid sum ah de guidelines/principles(whateva)-dem nuh agree wid de views pon fornication,adultery,drugs,drunkeness,juss trying to do tings dat can onli bettah dem lives.dem nuh haffi pay mind tuh de hypocrites and use dat as an excuse fi scawn.many times de hypocrites werse awf enyway.ow dem ahguh let dat hoal dem back?????dem muss tink dat if dem tun christian dem ahguh end up doing de same ting-being hypocritical. [/qb]

I am a Jamaican man who does not do drugs, doesn't commit crimes, works hard, and cares for his family. I have yet to encounter a Christian who is not a hypocrite. I have yet to find anything in Christianity that proves it to be a superior moral code to any other.

[Diplomat]

Re: Do Jamaican men scorn the Christian religion?

Originally posted by Tropicana:

As for the research you are quoting. I have heard something along those lines before. However, those are not the reasons men give for not going to church. If the research is true, that would be saying it's Gods fault as he designed men that way. I doubt that. [/QB]

"To examine rates of religiosity, Stark used the World Values Surveys, which collected data in 57 nations. The world's major faiths were included and the data came from such countries as the United States, most European states, Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, Japan, China, India, South Africa and Turkey. In all 57 countries, a higher percentage of women than men said they were religious." I would like to think that data from 57 nations merits some kind of consideration.

[Tropicana]

Re: Do Jamaican men scorn the Christian religion?

I am not disputing the fact that women were found to be more religious than men. I am focusing on cause. I am questioning the assertion that this is genetic. That would be like blaming God for the fact that men are not as religious as men.