Ethical Dilema?

[RollinCalf]

Re: Ethical Dilema?

Originally posted by RichD:
[qb] so missa calf....yuh bus pan any bredrin when yuh hear sey dem a creep? [/qb]

If di bredrin involve me inna im dirt by telling mi, an mi know di gyal, yes. An mi wi tell im seh mi a goh dweet to.

[Fledgist]

Re: Ethical Dilema?

Originally posted by RollinCalf:
[qb] And with whom do men engage in adultery ? [/qb]

Martians, apparently.

[jedi]

Re: Ethical Dilema?

In the situation in question, I question her motive for telling the minister if she was not prepared to work the issue through with her husband. The act of adultery was a violation of her marriage covenant with him, and by simply confessing to the minister was not going to repair that violation. It seems to me that she unwittingly engaged the minister in a web of deceit, a very big burden for anyone to carry.



Obviously her conscience seared her enough to want to seek help and forgiveness for her *area of weakness* (yes it is a weakness for women TOO who commit adultery not just men as we have always heard it referred to as HIS WEAKNESS!)
In most cases people go to their pastors because they:

1. Want to enquire if there is forgiveness for this sin too.

2. Want to get help on how to go about fixing this mess, i.e. how to approach her husband with her confession. I believe this is probably where she needed the most help and the pastor could have been the facilitator by having both of them come into his office when she was ready and willing to come face to face with her husband. He could then help to smooth things over, pointing out the fact that she feels totally undone by what she has done and is begging his forgiveness, hence the meeting. He could have suggested this to her and left it there till she was ready to take those steps. Under no circumstance should he have proceeded any further without her foreknowledge (to borrow a phrase).

3. They want to perhaps seek further counseling in Godly living. In this case further marriage counseling.

According to what you wrote it would seem that the minister went behind her back and told her husband. The woman can be commended because she could have confessed it to God and left it there and her sin would have remained with her for the rest of her life. However it is possible that she went to her pastor because separate and apart from the obvious, this could be a tell tale sign of trouble in her marriage and perhaps she saw telling her pastor as a way of opening the avenues of communication between herself and her husband for further healing beyond the initial confession and forgiveness. She confessed it to a minister and sought his help not for him to hide it with her but to help her work it out between her husband and herself in such a manner that is fitting and Godly. The minister in my view is totally wrong in the manner in which he handled the problem, and in fact may have lost a valuable opportunity to save souls and a marriage. Counseling his parishoners is his reponsibility which is part of his office as minister, this is not a burden, but an opportunity. He made it a burden by doing what he did. Now the burden becomes the responsibility of the entire church which will have to pay for his folly.

[fOrTyLeGz]

Re: Ethical Dilema?

Originally posted by RollinCalf:

How come is it that even though it is a parishoner who

1. committed adultery
2. hid the truth from her husband and
3. assumed paason would join her in hiding the truth too

Bah Humbug! Even the courts thought that the pastor was out of line.

In your religion, everyone is a sinner. She sinned and felt guilty. She didn't gossip to her friends about it... no, she took her guilt to her pastor.

You say that she, "hid the truth from her husband." But any one who wants to keep their marriage going, BUT who commits an act of infidelity, and feels bad and wishes they hadn't done it, and knows they will never do it again, yet tells their spouse, is an idiot.

Therefore, the pastor was a real idiot, for confessing her sin to her husband.

Originally posted by RollinCalf:

but is him end up wid the bad name and legal problems ????????

A Catholic priest would never be so meddlesome.

Originally posted by RollinCalf:

There is a saying that goes something like this: There is no end to the trouble that a woman can bring into your life. Truer words have never been spoken.

Not very profound, especially when the roles in this tale could be easily switched, and make no difference at all... well, except to you and the self-righteous priest maybe.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: Ethical Dilema?

Originally posted by RollinCalf:
[qb]

Originally posted by RichD:
[qb] so missa calf....yuh bus pan any bredrin when yuh hear sey dem a creep? [/qb]

If di bredrin involve me inna im dirt by telling mi, an mi know di gyal, yes. An mi wi tell im seh mi a goh dweet to. [/qb]

Well RC I don`t think you will be taking confessions anytime soon!

I would think if she went to the Pastor, he would be offering her advice on how to proceed if she wanted to sort out the problems in her marriage or her personal self and certainly chasing off to her husband as soon as he hears her confession. Mediation is not about bussing pon nobaddy!

[RollinCalf]

Re: Ethical Dilema?

"In your religion, everyone is a sinner."

Ahmn forty, beg pardon but you have me in the wrong box boss.

I simply happen to believe that infidelity is wrong. I also believe that confession...to the wronged party..is the only thing that demonstrates genuine contrition and a desire to repair the relationship, not involving a third party and insisting that this person keep your "secret". Indeed, if one truly "feels bad and wishes they hadn't done it, and knows they will never do it again" why not tell your husband ?

If that makes me "religious" then so be it. As many here have been at pains to point out, one does not need a "God" or a religion to have ethical standards and morals. I have neither god nor religion my friend.

[ohliz]

Re: Ethical Dilema?

Well my pastor (United Methodist if it matters) gave me a prompt response:

The rules of confidentiality apply to ministers roughly as they do to
medical doctors. There are now certain matters (child abuse and child
sexual abuse) where it is against the law not to report things said even in
confidentiality.

Sounds like the case you mentioned was not one of them in which case the
minister violated the woman's confidence. However, since the rules of
confidence are not codified anywhere, I have observed that there is
considerable latitude in the way they are observed. And, we have some very
loose-lipped clergy.

[ohliz]

Re: Ethical Dilema?

Originally posted by RollinCalf:
[qb] The obligation to maintain confidentiality does not extend to witholding information that may result in harm to others.

How would you feel for example, if you were this woman's husband and contracted an STD ? [/qb]

Well since the woman had already had the affair, it's not like the minister said "go ahead, have fun, give your husband an STD". It's really beside the point since if she'd given him one, he already had it.

I find it interesting that you seem to have trouble addressing the flip side of this, gender-wise. Are you one of those that thinks it's the woman's fault whether she is the wife or the mistress? Either she cheated or she tempted the man to cheat? I'm getting that general vibe from your posts but of course I could be wrong.

PS: see above...the obligation apparently only extends to criminal offenses. At least in the Methodist church.

[RollinCalf]

Re: Ethical Dilema?

"It's really beside the point since if she'd given him one, he already had it."

Que sera sera I suppose.

I tell you what I find really strange. To see this thread in the same forum with another that asks "What is the church doing to prevent AIDS in Jamaica." And to see that some can advocate for keeping promiscuity "confidential" while others say that the church should "do something" about AIDS. Go figure. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

My position applies to women as well as to men (see my response to RichD). My comment about women bringing trouble was a flip aside and I take it back.

[M]

Re: Ethical Dilema?

Originally posted by RollinCalf:
[qb] My position applies to women as well as to men (see my response to RichD). My comment about women bringing trouble was a flip aside and I take it back. [/qb]

I think I'm falling in love [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] .

No religion.
Doesn't believe in infidelity.
Has sufficient inner direction to be willing to break the male code of silence.
Took back his remark about women (that's almost APOLOGIZING isn't it)? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[RollinCalf]

Re: Ethical Dilema?

M, mi well ugly. But mi have nice ways.

[M]

Re: Ethical Dilema?

Originally posted by RollinCalf:
[qb] M, mi well ugly. But mi have nice ways. [/qb]

Send me your photo and let me decide <help, I'm starting to sound like Kingy [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] > . And nice ways do go a long way [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] .

[RollinCalf]

Re: Ethical Dilema?

[M]

Re: Ethical Dilema?

A great sense of humor too!

swooning

[fOrTyLeGz]

Re: Ethical Dilema?

Originally posted by RollinCalf:

I simply happen to believe that infidelity is wrong.

So then is the duty, that is, all preachers ought to out infidelity in their churches?

Or better, since you don't believe in gods, everyone ought to expose infidelity (spousal disloyalty too), when ever they see or hear about it?

Originally posted by RollinCalf:

I also believe that confession...to the wronged party..is the only thing that demonstrates genuine contrition and a desire to repair the relationship, not involving a third party and insisting that this person keep your "secret".

Now think about it. You go and tell your preacher your problem... does anyone in their right mind think that the preacher is going to tell the one with horns? NO. Of course not, and the court agreed.

Originally posted by RollinCalf:

Indeed, if one truly "feels bad and wishes they hadn't done it, and knows they will never do it again" why not tell your husband ?

Because she (remember the roles are easily reversed on this issue) would have her heart broken. And things, their life together, will never ever be the same again.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~

Originally posted by RollinCalf:

If that makes me "religious" then so be it. As many here have been at pains to point out, one does not need a "God" or a religion to have ethical standards and morals. I have neither god nor religion my friend.

Yes, I know that. My point was that if the preacher can out this sinner, why not out all sinners in his church (EVERONE IS A SINNER!)? No one would talk to him is why.

And your point about how women cause all these problems seems to be your general take on this ethical delemma.