I am a christian so I don't vote

[kthydvs]

Re: I am a christian so I don't vote

Originally posted by Q3210:
[qb] [
If i see a crime in progress, the only reason i would call the police is for the benefit of the victim. what happens to the alleged offender is not of my concern. i am not judge and jury. but i fail to see what this has to do with my position on not getting involved in politics. [/qb]

Maybe not in politics, but your stance goes against the very pricnciples that Jesus Christ died for. How can you be not concerned about the offender?
By so doing demonstrates why you do not see the importance of partaking no matter how small in your politics.
By sweeping the offender under the carpet does not help in the least. By concerning ourselves with all parties, we enable ourselves better to handle and control our fate.
I am sure your pastor thinks differently who ever he/she is as a leader in the Christian faith. [/QB][/QUOTE]

it isn't a case of not being concerned about the welfare of the offender, but it is their spiritual welfare that is of paramount importance. calling the police is not going to benefit the offender, except that they will get caught and put them out of action for a while. i don't think the fact that i am a Christian would improve the offenders attitude. but by giving them spiritual knowledge maybe they will turn around. now i don't know if you think that while they are in the middle of committing a crime, i should go and minister to them? We do minister, where ever there are people willing to listen, but the situation has to be appropriate and safe. the chances are the offender will have met a Christian at some point through the wirnessing programme. It is then up to them whether they take on board the kingdom message or not.

As a Christian, would you step in in the middle of a crime to tell them about the Word of God?

[neutral]

Re: I am a christian so I don't vote

Originally posted by kumba1:
I just emulate as much as I can what Jesus taught. [/QB]

sometimes when I hear christians saying things like that my jaw drops in amazement.
if you are to emulate everything that jesus taught then at least take into account that we do live in an entirely different era than the one jesus occupied.

systems of governance were entirely different than when jesus is supposed to have lived,adherance to the rule of politics,and the law,would have been entirely different then.

by all means emulate what jesus taught,but be also aware that you live in an entirely different epoch.
jesus said things to people then that were relevant to their particular situations,I am sure if he lived now he would have to change the script somewhat.

also,I am sure jesus never intended for anyone that emulated him to totally discard their own ability to think,reason,and act,with regards to situations that affected their everyday lives.

I am sure jesus never intended anyone to simply emulate everything he taught while showing total disregard for the system which govern us.

[Diplomat]

Re: I am a christian so I don't vote

Originally posted by neutral:
[qb]

Originally posted by kumba1:
I just emulate as much as I can what Jesus taught. [/qb]

sometimes when I hear christians saying things like that my jaw drops in amazement.
if you are to emulate everything that jesus taught then at least take into account that we do live in an entirely different era than the one jesus occupied.

systems of governance were entirely different than when jesus is supposed to have lived,adherance to the rule of politics,and the law,would have been entirely different then.

by all means emulate what jesus taught,but be also aware that you live in an entirely different epoch.
jesus said things to people then that were relevant to their particular situations,I am sure if he lived now he would have to change the script somewhat.

also,I am sure jesus never intended for anyone that emulated him to totally discard their own ability to think,reason,and act,with regards to situations that affected their everyday lives.

I am sure jesus never intended anyone to simply emulate everything he taught while showing total disregard for the system which govern us. [/QB]

I agree with you.

[Diplomat]

Re: I am a christian so I don't vote

Originally posted by kumba1:

There is an acceptance here that the world can corrupt. Now as the world is dominated by politics, can we take it too mean that politics is corrupt? As a follower of Christ I also need to be protected from this corruptive influence, so the best line of defence is to remain apart from it and not get involved in the machinations of man (and Satan who has power over the whole world: 1Jo 5:19)

While I do respect your point of view, the fact of the matter is that as long as we are alive, we are impacted by politics. Whether or not we voted for the particular government in power is a moot point. Jesus taught that it is what comes out of him that corrupts/defiles him as it is out of the abundance of our hearts from which everything - thoughts and actions - proceeds. Individual character, integrity, morals, and all the other admirable virtues are things that we choose to let go or hold on to. So I can live in the world, yet not necessarily be influenced by it in the areas that I consider to be most important.

[b]"Do not put your trust in nobles, nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs. His spirit goes out, he goes back to the ground; In that day his thoughts do perish. Happy is the one who has the God of Jacob for his help, whose hope is in Jehovah God"(Psalm 146:3-5). Sorry but I cannot accept your statements that while we wait for Jehovah to bring an end to this world, we have to chose out of men, the one whose ideas and governance are most reasonable. Reasonable by who’s standards? And as for administrators who represent what is best for my children, I would not entrust their future to man if I had at this moment a choice. I have to accept the rules of the secular authorities, providing they do not conflict with what Jehovah expects of me. And that I do. But as for trusting them, never is my answer. Two of the major causes of the problems mankind is facing toady and throughout history (aside from the involvement of Satan in human affairs) is politics and religion. Both I avoid like the plague.

I also avoid religion. Chrisitianity for me is all about having a personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ. We can all go around and spiritualize our lives as much as we can, and we do so to our own detriment, but if my child is in a public school system, I am going to exercise my right to get involved. I see that as my moral responsibility. The same thing with the community in which I live. I will exercise my right to vote for the person that best represents the interests of my community, its agencies, and services. What I cannot accept is that we are expected to simply sit back and do nothing. Nowhere in the scriptures do I read anything that supports that indifference/ambivalence. That to me smacks of irresponsibility. We however can agree to disagree on this particular issue.

[DC]

Re: I am a christian so I don't vote

Veeeeerry interesting.

Kumba, I am most certainly not following you here..


God gave us the freedom of choice and that freedom should also be excersised in all spheres, political, social and spiritual.

The right to vote is a unique opportunity that folks did not have back then. You have the God given right to seek out the candidate you feel is quite capable of promoting justice and the general welfare of the people(even the ones who come close) [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] ) and YOU can participate in this process. Why would God[The Just God] NOT want His people(of all peoples) living in a democratic society be involved in this process? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

We pray against oppression and injustice but what good is it if we pray and believe and do not act on on it-knowing we have the choice to help shape government if we do?

That sounds like something Jesus would be in favor of...

[Tuff Gong]

Re: I am a christian so I don't vote

Originally posted by DC:
[qb]We pray against oppression and injustice but what good is it if we pray and believe and do not act on on it-knowing we have the choice to help shape government if we do?

That sounds like something Jesus would be in favor of...[/qb]

I think so too, if what people said about him was true.

[kthydvs]

Re: I am a christian so I don't vote

Originally posted by neutral:
[qb]

Originally posted by kumba1:
I just emulate as much as I can what Jesus taught. [/qb]

sometimes when I hear christians saying things like that my jaw drops in amazement.
if you are to emulate everything that jesus taught then at least take into account that we do live in an entirely different era than the one jesus occupied.

systems of governance were entirely different than when jesus is supposed to have lived,adherance to the rule of politics,and the law,would have been entirely different then.

by all means emulate what jesus taught,but be also aware that you live in an entirely different epoch.
jesus said things to people then that were relevant to their particular situations,I am sure if he lived now he would have to change the script somewhat.

also,I am sure jesus never intended for anyone that emulated him to totally discard their own ability to think,reason,and act,with regards to situations that affected their everyday lives.

I am sure jesus never intended anyone to simply emulate everything he taught while showing total disregard for the system which govern us. [/QB]

The reason Jesus came was to draw the lost sheep back to Jehovah. This was done through a spiritual message. As he rightly said he was not of this world, so the machinations of the world was not what he came for. This is the main reason the Jews refused to accept him as the Messiah. They were waiting (and still are if you follow Soul_Doctors reasonings) for a Messiah who would lift them out of physical bondage, release them from the chains of oppression of the Roman authorities and restore their homeland to them. Jesus did none of those things. His message was clear. He preached about his heavenly Father Jehovah and the Kingdom that would rule to time indefinate.

Although we live in a different era, the problems afflicting mankind are no different now than then. Move past the physical and look at the spiritual. As then, people today have been led away from true worship and knowledge of the true God. But equally as Solomon declared "That which has come to be, that which will come to be, and that which has come to be done, that is what will be done.: and so there is nothing new under the sun " (Ecc 1:9). For example if I live in the UK or an entirely different political system such as lets say China, the problems associated with the region in which I live will be different, but the spiritual needs will be identical. The spiritual message is the same for the people of China as they are for myself in the UK.

As the reasoning Jesus came with was not his own but was from his Father "because I have not spoken out of my own impulse, but the Father himself who sent me has given me a commandment as to what to tell and what to speak" (John 12:49). Now if the message Jesus delivered was from our Creator, does it not make sense that God would know what our requirments are today when compared to the era in which Jesus lived, and therefore the message that Jesus gave would have had some forward looking information. The spiritual message is the same now as it was then.

As a Christian we are supposed to put on a Christlike personality. Now that means following Jesus's teaching. But he never taught anyone disregard for the political system. He obeyed the laws of the land, but he was not involved in the politics surrounding him. This does not mean not thinking or reasoning for oneself. In fact following Jesus is the hardest thing in this world to do. The world hated him because of the message he came with (John 7:7) and he warned those that followed him the world would hate them also (John 15:19-19). My everyday life, although affected by the system I live in, is more affected by how I conduct myself spiritually, mentally, physically, emotionally. My obedience is to Jehovah. "For there is no partiality with God" (Ro 2:11). Now if God is not partial, how can I be. Partiality is a trait of the human race. Our nationalism, patriotism, racism, in fact all the isms and schisms are a product of mans inability to govern themselves with any degree of justice, honesty and love. We stagger from one crisis to another, from one catastrophe to another, and yet we still will not turn to God for wisdom.

[kthydvs]

Re: I am a christian so I don't vote

Originally posted by DC:
[qb] Veeeeerry interesting.

Kumba, I am most certainly not following you here..


God gave us the freedom of choice and that freedom should also be excersised in all spheres, political, social and spiritual.

The right to vote is a unique opportunity that folks did not have back then. You have the God given right to seek out the candidate you feel is quite capable of promoting justice and the general welfare of the people(even the ones who come close) [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] ) and YOU can participate in this process. Why would God[The Just God] NOT want His people(of all peoples) living in a democratic society be involved in this process? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

We pray against oppression and injustice but what good is it if we pray and believe and do not act on on it-knowing we have the choice to help shape government if we do?

That sounds like something Jesus would be in favor of... [/qb]

DC, Adam and Eve had freedom of choice and look what happened there. The Scriptures are there for our benefit if we wish to live by the requirments set down by Jehovah. Of course Jehovah wants us to live in a just society, that is what the Kingdom message is all about. "And they will certainly build houses and have occupancy, and they will certainly plant vineyards and eat (their) fruitage. They will not build and someone else have occupancy; they will not plant and someone else do the eating" (Isiah 65:22). "And he will certainly render judgement among the nations and set matters straight respecting many peoples. And they will have to beat their swords into plowshare and their spears into shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, neither will they learn war no more". There are many more Scriptures that show us what life will be like free of human governance. It is that veritable paradise. These are the promises of Almighty God, and as stated in Isiah 55:11 "so my word goes forth from my mouth will prove to be. It will not return to me without results".

Jesus gave us a model prayer "Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified. Let your kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven" (Mathew 6:9, 10). Our prayers can ask for Jehovahs help to help us endure, but the main theme should be that the kingdom come to put an end to man's inhumanity. "Keep on seeking first the kingdom, and all these other things will be added to you. So, never be anxious about the next day, for the next day will have its own anxieties. Sufficient for each day is its own badness" (Mathew 6:33, 34). Jesus taught us not to be anxious about food, clothing, what we are to drink, because if we put the seeking of the kingdom first, all these things we would receive.

[Joemaican]

Re: I am a christian so I don't vote

Sorry folks,but this post has evolved into a 'Faith and reason' category,so I will just transfer it there.

Please continue your discussion on that forum.

Thanks.
Joe.

[jedi]

Re: I am a christian so I don't vote

My, my...not surprised anyway! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[LadyDayshah]

Re: I am a christian so I don't vote

Originally posted by Tuff Gong:
[qb]
In Jamaica a large percentage of the population and religious and most are Christians. In 2.6 million souls we have the highest murder rates in the world that affects Christians as well:
[/qb]

what are u implying??'shame on the christians' for not FORCING the violent ppl. to stop????

[LadyDayshah]

Re: I am a christian so I don't vote

Originally posted by DC:
[qb] You have the God given right to seek out the candidate you feel is quite capable of promoting justice and the general welfare of the people(even the ones who come close) [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] ) [/qb]

Oh,and can't you see???Kumba has chosen.She chose Jehovah God and so do I.

People reason that 'if there is a god then he is taking to long to act on the worlds affairs',but how they quickly forget along that same line of reasoning 'a thousand years in our eyes is like a day in God's eyes'(if not less).still,one should not frown bcuz we are living in the last days as pointed out in the bible.so,we're closer than ever with each passing day.it could be 100 more years b4 Jehovah reacts.no one knows (and if u think about it,it makes sense that no one knows when).

'to that day
(when Jehovah begins ridding the earth of wickedness) no one knows,not even the Son,but only the Heavenly Father.'

[LadyDayshah]

Re: I am a christian so I don't vote

Originally posted by neutral:
[qb]

so far your "god" hasnt managed to bring about,influence,or change anything.
[/qb]

you must not be familar with US coins.
on EVERY U.S. coin (I think on bills too),there is a statement,"In God we trust".
We've seen some ppl. change for the better when they let God into their lives,for example,some who have been perhaps rightfully imprisoned.

now if that is not influence,I don't comprehend.I only gave 2 examples of what I think is influence and,oh,there is more.if you can't see any Godly influence in the world (I know there isn't too much),AT ALL,then maybe it's better you don't.I have a feeling that even if someone showed you more proof,even to your face,you would probably still deny and say there's no influence there.
[img]/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

maybe you'd call it luck.

[jedi]

Re: I am a christian so I don't vote

So it wasn't a case of Jesus being political. He came to preach to the lost sheep about Jehovah and his Kingdom , something that the religious leaders were failing to do. They were in positions of power and prominence, and because Jesus was showing them up for what they really were. Jesus told them "Why is it you do not know what I am speaking? Because you cannot listen to my word. You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. This one was a manslayer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him". (John 8:44). What Jesus was addressing was not political matters but spiritual matters pertaining to the lies they were spreading regarding Jehovah.

Jesus Christ was one of if not the most politically radical person that ever walked the face of the earth. You have got to be kidding!
"Faith without works is dead faith", hello don't you remember that. Each and everyone of us has a responsibility and an obligation to get involved in the making of our communities, cities, states and countries. It is our God given responsibility to make a choice by voting for who will run our country and how it will be run. And yes the words "IN GOD WE TRUST" appears on every one of our coins and greenbacks, because this country was founded by CHRISTIAN MEN, who made the laws based on biblical principles and voted them into the Constitution. Our very "freedoms" are founded on Godly principles and were VOTED into existence by CHRISTIANS.

All that you are saying ad nauseum reminds me of the story of the ostrich. Three ostriches standing on the plains spotted some ostrich hunters coming at a distance, two decided to run the other one decided to bury his head in the sand. The head of the ostrich is the smallest part of its body. The two men looked at each other then at the ostrich and said in unison..."lunch time."

One thing I love about Christianity is this...THE FREEDOM TO CHOOSE! Something that is acutely missing among many other faiths. In fact where ever Christianity is the predominant religion, political leaders are elected into office by VOTE. Is that any accident? God is the GOD of FREEDOM OF CHOICE, not choosing when you have the opportunity to do so however, is not one of them, that just shows a lack of accountability before God, don't overlook that very important fact.

[DC]

Re: I am a christian so I don't vote

Originally posted by LadyDayshah:
Oh,and can't you see???Kumba has chosen.She chose Jehovah God and so do I.

...and so have I [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] . I am a 'spiritual' citizen as much as I am an 'earthly' citizen and there are rights and responsibilities in both worlds. I have chosen to note that the relevance of the Scriptures applies to us today in the practical task of how I should conduct my life in society and live responsibly as an earthly citizen. There is no perfect government on earth but as an ambassador of God's kingdom, I understand that I can use my freedom of choice to influence the world in which I live in at the moment.

Anyways Ladies-Kumba and LadyD-we can go on until His kingdom does come but I will part here. I just could not see any earthly(or biblical) reason why we should not vote as Christians(and I read your responses and still do not see the reason) but like Mr CEW and others, we will agree to disagree.

I bid you both good day. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]