700 Wives

[kthydvs]

Re: 700 Wives

Originally posted by Simple Man:
[qb] In my opinion, only a nut would take any figure in the bible literally. [/qb]

"ALL Scripture is inspired by GOD and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of GOD may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good works" (2Tim3:16,17).

I would rather put my trust in GOD than in earthling man.

[kthydvs]

Re: 700 Wives

CEW, it is very probable that there was a record kept of all the wives and concubines that solomon had. there was a recorder (translated from the Hebrew word za-khar'), a highly responsible officer in the royal court of Israel. Although his duties are not described, it appears he was the official chronicler of the kingdom, furnishing the king with information, reminding him of important matters and supplying advice on them (1ki 4:3, 2Sa 8:16; 20:24; 2Ki 18:18, 37)

[Fledgist]

Re: 700 Wives

Originally posted by kumba1:
[qb]

Originally posted by Simple Man:
[qb] In my opinion, only a nut would take any figure in the bible literally. [/qb]

"ALL Scripture is inspired by GOD and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of GOD may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good works" (2Tim3:16,17).

I would rather put my trust in GOD than in earthling man. [/qb]

Even when the Bible contains statements which are provably false?

http://www-gap.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/HistTopics/Pi_through_the_ages.html

[kthydvs]

Re: 700 Wives

And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it about. (I Kings 7, 23)

The same verse can be found in II Chronicles 4, 2. It occurs in a list of specifications for the great temple of Solomon, built around 950 BC and its interest here is that it gives p = 3. Not a very accurate value of course and not even very accurate in its day, for the Egyptian and Mesopotamian values of 25/8 = 3.125 and 10 = 3.162 have been traced to much earlier dates: though in defence of Solomon's craftsmen it should be noted that the item being described seems to have been a very large brass casting, where a high degree of geometrical precision is neither possible nor necessary.


it appears, and correct me if i read this wrong, that there is a defence here regarding the precision of the geometry used to construct this molten sea. accuracy seems to depend on the size of the materials being used whether precision is necessary.

[accepted77]

Re: 700 Wives

[QUOTE]Originally posted by CEW:
[qb]

Originally posted by kumba1:
[qb] There is no ambiguity in the scriptures cited, nor is the issue about whether there was a proper use of numbers. What is being forgotten is that the Old Testament was written in Hebrew (and the NT in Greek), and it is important to understand the "root words" used and how that may have been (mis)translated. In the case of Solomon, it is not humanly possible for him to have had 1000 women in his life at any one point in time or the other, so one go back to the possibly/probable (mis)translation of the orginal text. [/qb]

CEW
There is no mistranslation of "three" or "one hundred" as the Hebrew words used shalowsh and me'ah are used here and other places to represent simple numbers.

Also remember we are speaking of Solomon who wrote

Ecc 2:10 And whatsoever mine eyes desired I kept not from them, I withheld not my heart from any joy; for my heart rejoiced in all my labour: and this was my portion of all my labour.

And elsewhere,
Ecc 7:25
I applied mine heart to know, and to search, and to seek out wisdom, and the reason of things, and to know the wickedness of folly, even of foolishness and madness:
Ecc 7:26 And I find more bitter than death the woman, whose heart is snares and nets, and her hands as bands: whoso pleaseth God shall escape from her; but the sinner shall be taken by her.
Ecc 7:27 Behold, this have I found, saith the preacher, counting one by one, to find out the account:
Ecc 7:28 Which yet my soul seeketh, but I find not: one man among a thousand have I found; but a woman among all those have I not found.

Notice Solomon here is quoting from experience his search for fulfilment in life and coming to certain conclusions.
Summary of conclusions
1. No man is just
2. More bitter than death is the woman whose heart is snares and nets for a man.
3. Counting one by one he have found one just man in a thousand but of women none.

Now this is not any indictment on women but of the women Solomon knew this was his conclusion. We can assume if he searched a thousand men he with a God given wisdom would apply the same test to women at least a thousand.

Finally there is a pattern we see through the old testament of the effects of sin in generations. His father David had seven wives, he Solomon the apex of Isreal Kings had seven hundred, we are not told the number of David's concubines but we know of three, Solomon had three hundred.

A company of troops was 1000 men, Solomon had a company of women. There is symbolism here only of great power and influence, the numbers are real.

[Wahalla]

Re: 700 Wives

700 mothers in Law....


So if Solomon serviced one a night the poor woman wont see any action for nearly 2 years.... And if each wedding took a day then thats more than a year spent in weddings... When did he have time to suggest chopping children in two ?


And when did he find time to seduce the queen of Sheba...

[accepted77]

Re: 700 Wives

The books of Proverbs, Song of Solomon and Ecclesiastes are attributed to Solomon, reading these books give a picture of the man his life and his passions.

Solomon or Jedidiah is raised in a house of intrigue. His mother is the beloved of his father and he is beloved of God. Its a pattern of Abel, Isaac, Joseph and his son Mannaseth, and David also. These, though not first born inherit the blessings from God because of the special relationship of love.

Solomon is a favorite of his father due to the great love he has for Solomons mother, Bathsheba.

In the Book of Proverbs it is apparent he paints the love of both parents in his upbringing the book is a sort of tribute to the guidance of his mother and father.

Pro 1:8 My son, hear the instruction of thy father, and forsake not the law of thy mother:

His father David a writer of songs and poems a warrior and a skillful politican, is also a man of passions, he loves many women, he teaches his son from the experiences and lessons of his "wild" days.

His mother Bathshebawhose virtue was stolen by his father David would send him on a life search for the Virtuous Woman (not the moniker).
He would later chase 1000 women in his search to find someone "just like mom" even go after the Queen of Sheba herself to find Ms. Right.

Pro 31:1 the words of king Lemuel, the prophecy that his mother taught him.
Pro 31:10 Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies.

Bible scholars ascribe to King Solomon the pen name 'King Lemuel' for nowhere else in scripture is this fictional character mentioned.

Now to the spicy part.

So from his youth Solomon is a child of privilege. A favored son of a Mighty King and a beautiful mother, obviously he is a looker and he has his father's penchant for beautiful women.

It’s not hard to imagine, Noblemen and brownnosers are falling over themselves in offering their daughters to the Kings son. His mother is busy counseling him and Solomon is seeking the virtuous woman, obviously with a lot of failures.

Wahalla,

Who says he have to have sex with all of them. He of course has favorites, profilers and a lot of wannabees.

Sol 6:8 there are threescore queens, and fourscore concubines, and virgins without number.
The youth have choices, but he fancies a certain dark skin girl.
Sol 1:5 I am black, but comely, O ye daughters of Jerusalem, as the tents of Kedar, as the curtains of Solomon
She is a shulimite and like his mother, a Hittite, dark skinned like the Queen of Sheba, he have a bias like his father for dark skinned ladies, he and his father is described as fair and ruddy a rare comment about skin color in the Bible.
Sol 6:13 Return, return, O Shulamite; return, return, that we may look upon thee. What will ye see in the Shulamite? As it were the company of two armies.

But these ladies were not all for show follow this episode, it is raunchy...

. Sol 6:9 my dove, my undefiled is but one; she is the only one of her mother; she is the choice one of her that bare her. The daughters saw her, and blessed her; yea, the queens and the concubines, and they praised her.....
Sol 5:2 I sleep, but my heart waketh: it is the voice of my beloved that knocketh, saying, Open to me, my sister, my love, my dove, my undefiled: for my head is filled with dew, and my locks with the drops of the night.
Sol 5:3 I have put off my coat; how shall I put it on? I have washed my feet; how shall I defile them?
Sol 5:4 My beloved put in his hand by the hole of the door, and my bowels were moved for him.
Sol 5:5 I rose up to open to my beloved; and my hands dropped with myrrh, and my fingers with sweet smelling myrrh, upon the handles of the lock.
Sol 5:6 I opened to my beloved; but my beloved had withdrawn himself, and was gone: my soul failed when he spake: I sought him, but I could not find him; I called him, but he gave me no answer.

How did he find time, twice a day and in the cool of the night.

The Bible never did say he found Ms. Right like so many men searching for Ms. Perfect, bottoms up.

Let's hear the conclusion of the whole matter.
You can only find virtue when you choose "first the Kingdom" and let God do the adding.

[iches]

Re: 700 Wives

Sorry I haven't been around, but I have enjoyed the conversaion so far, and hate to bring it up front now, but the discussion so far is on the 700+ and nothing about the other part of the comment.

Really, disappointed that the various Revs as ignore this. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[kthydvs]

Re: 700 Wives

sorry i'm not a rev. but i have attempted to answer you question earlier on. it goes

Hope this answers your question.

[kthydvs]

Re: 700 Wives

sorry, didn't put the answer in.
the comparison with the scripture in Timothy where the instruction is that men must only have one wife as opposed to the practice of polygamy. GOD is not the originator of polygamy. He gave ADam just one wife. Later Lamech, a descendant of cain, took two wives for himself. in time others imitated him, some went on to take slave girls as concubines. GOD tolerated the practice and under the Mosaic Law instituted measures to assure proper treatment of women who had such a relationship. He did this until the Christian congregation was established, but then he required that his servants return to the standard He Himself instituted in the garden of eden.

[accepted77]

Re: 700 Wives

Iches,

Niether am I a minister, no man is really a Reverent that title belongs to God, but thats another topic.

The pratice of polygamy as the pratice of idolatry is summed up in scripture by the english word ignorance.

It is best defined by the Greek work 52 agnoia {ag'-noy-ah}
1) lack of knowledge, ignorance 1a) esp. of divine things 1b) of moral blindness

The pratice as Kumba mentioned started with Lamech, who seemed to boast he had killed a young man and taken his wife.

The original Biblical model is explained by another greek word 4347 proskollao {pros-kol-lah'-o}
AV - cleave 2, be joined 1, join (one's) self 1; 4
1) to glue upon, glue to 2) to join one's self to closely, cleave to, stick to
Jesus preached the original in the following passage.

Mat 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
Mat 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
Mat 19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

The custom of adding wives was one borrowed by the rightoeous seed of Adam from the unrighteous descendants of Cain around them and appears to have been spread by fallen angels intermarrying with daughters of Adam (see Genesis 6).

Eph 4:17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
Eph 4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

This ignorance this blindness of the heart allowed for much of the contrary customs in man to develop untill the disobedience was so widespread that men hardened their hearts against the will of God.

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

This marrying and putting away of wives was addressed by Jesus, who took the issue back to the original plan.

Mat 19:8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
Mat 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

Jesus called it adultery, unless the break was for forncation. Christians 'by and large' see it also as such, the original was a single bond of male and female any other union was adultery.

In times of ignorance God winked at polygamy. But Jesus put away the ignorance and the spiritual blindness and now commands all guilty of polygamy to repent, i.e turn away from their former sins.

[iches]

Re: 700 Wives

I understand what you are saying, but What I don't understand is: all these people worship the same GOD that everybody is suppose to be worshiping, and their religous custom calls for more than 1, and ours next to 0, so the 1 then is the man made law! Got you!

[accepted77]

Re: 700 Wives

Iches,

There is this post modernism trend that every one jumps on without a moment thought that all truths are equally important and there is no absolute truth.

Quite common here is the comment you just made that we all worship the same God.

That is not true of Christianity. The central tennets of the christian faith is that all roads lead to Christ, history is his story and all things were created by him and for him.

This Jesus made a significant claim,
He said, I am The Way, The Truth and The Life, no man commeth to the father but by me.

The real significance of this is that this statement rules out the Budha, the Mohammed, the Tao and any other claim of any other religion to the truth or to another way, or to a way of life after death.

Jesus described himself as truth and the way.

So either he is the truth, or christianity is based on a lie.

If Jesus is who he claims to be (and believe me christianity is divided also on this issue) then there is no other way.

Its christianity or death.

Now I know this is not a popular fact, but thats what christianity is built on. There's no other way.

This is not what most people will like to hear and it so easy to skirt this truth but that's what distinguishes christianity from all others, One God one life, one truth one way.

Sorry to go off topic, but I am not at liberty to comment on "other ways", I follow and believe the truths of the Bible and my opinions are biased to that end.

[iches]

Re: 700 Wives

So, now I must DIVORCE 3 of my wives to get in line with the New Testiment? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[samuel]

Re: 700 Wives

700 wives :

four or five WIVES

three hundred baby mothers

hundreds of slaves

and any ting wheh deh bout .

oh , a king's life is so sweet .