Soooo I knwo we have freedom of speech to an extent here

[JamBrit]

Re: Soooo I knwo we have freedom of speech to an extent here

Just wondering.....has anyone seen this documentary (Life & Debt a film by Stephanie Black)? If so, was it authentic in portraying the facts it presented?

[SistahD]

Re: Soooo I knwo we have freedom of speech to an extent here

((JusCool)) I have seen the documentary about 2 years ago on WNPE I believe... but am not in a position to verify as to its validity.

about the film

[SisterNancy]

Re: Soooo I knwo we have freedom of speech to an extent here

Excellent documentary. Very accurate, honest, raw. There is so much in it, that you will have to watch it a second time in order to process it all.

[MarieK]

Re: Soooo I knwo we have freedom of speech to an extent here

yes I have and there are certain aspects which accurately depict situations in JA and certain aspects which were exaggerated.

wah di pint?

[JamBrit]

Re: Soooo I knwo we have freedom of speech to an extent here

Originally posted by SistahD:
[qb] ((JusCool)) I have seen the documentary about 2 years ago on WNPE I believe... but am not in a position to verify as to its validity. [/qb]

Hey (((SistahD)))....You know I had seen a documentary about a year ago also, which portrayed more or less the same story...I just can't remember if this is the one...cho!

[JamBrit]

Re: Soooo I knwo we have freedom of speech to an extent here

Originally posted by MarieK:
[qb] yes I have and there are certain aspects which accurately depict situations in JA and certain aspects which were exaggerated.

wah di pint? [/qb]

The point is, if it's an accurate depiction MarieK, it would be interesting to watch!

[mountaingal]

Re: Soooo I knwo we have freedom of speech to an extent here

Originally posted by Nunya:
[qb] mtngal,

This isn't an us against them thread as SisterNancy would have one believe (btw, a who yuh? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] ). It's an us for this ish stops now! thread!!!

Too many non Jamaicans are running around talking crap about Ja like it's the gospel. Case in point: One poster said recently, and I paraphrase: "Jamaican men consider it a great insult to be viewed as a one-woman man"

Talk about a new take on an old stereotype...

And then other non Jamaican posters refer to the above quoted poster as though she is some authority on Jamaica!!!

Interspersing blatant untruths with the obligatory "I love Jamaica!", "Jamaican people are the best!" "Jamaica is a jewel!" isn't blinding us to their true intentions - which is to subvert.

Why aren't you seeing that??? [/qb]

nunya, it is very easy to spot generalizations as you've noted, and easy to challenge/correct them. i've seen them myself, and have been known to challenge them. others do so too.

you may be right - i don't necessarily see your conclusion about (in this instance) any poster's "true intentions" being to subvert. perhaps because i can't see what would be their rationale for subversion.

i've seen threads/posters in other forums that i felt were trying to subvert the harmony of the board for reasons including perhaps pique or revenge. a consistent campaign by other posters in the forum to point out the person's misinformation and agenda is usually very effective in controlling such attempts.

i can't say i've seen in the tourist discussions any degree of effort to subvert. what i see is people believing they have a unique perspective on jamaican life based on the company they keep. i do see a lot of misinformation, but i also see a few bits of truth in what they say.

on a level, i don't think we can realistically talk about stopping any *ish* now (actually, i'm not exactly sure what you're implying with that statement). people come and go on the bulletin board, misinformation and misperception are ongoing features, not limited to any forum.

Sienna made a good suggestion for dealing people who have concerns about Jamaica's image and any false information being portrayed in the tourist forums - let's go to those forums and post our corrections and educate people and ourselves, and let's do so in a constructive way (i can't stress that constructive part enough, it includes treating each other respectfully).

(BTW, i believe sisternancy has been a member for a while, i recall some of her posts in the political forums couple years back.)

[remo]

Re: Soooo I knwo we have freedom of speech to an extent here

I was called trash when I objected to a particular trip report a few months ago.Take a look

http://www.jamaicans.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=003788;p=4

[SistahD]

Re: Soooo I knwo we have freedom of speech to an extent here

((JusCool)) I posted the link above for the background stories within the movie. The ones I remember most are the potato farmers who have been commissioned (by the US) to grown and supply potatoes, only to have them refused as inadequate, thereby losing their money in the process; the undergarment workers in the Free Zone; the milk being too expensive because of the lower rates of milk products being easily imported, therefore local milk being of little value, and being dumped.

[JamBrit]

Re: Soooo I knwo we have freedom of speech to an extent here

Originally posted by SistahD:
[qb] ((JusCool)) I posted the link above for the background stories within the movie. The ones I remember most are the potato farmers who have been commissioned (by the US) to grown and supply potatoes, only to have them refused as inadequate, thereby losing their money in the process; the undergarment workers in the Free Zone; the milk being too expensive because of the lower rates of milk products being easily imported, therefore local milk being of little value, and being dumped. [/qb]

Sarry SistahD...**adjustin mi glawsis**...mi nain si dat.....thank yuh mi dawlin! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Tropicana]

Re: Soooo I knwo we have freedom of speech to an extent here

In response to some statements that were made by Blu in the Acquiring Marketing skills thread about where the insults started, I hope that this will help:

Clarification of where the insults started.

Some Jamaicans, including me, stepped into the rent a dread thread to express a different point of view from what was being presented and correct inaccurate information. Here was the response to what I said:

From the Rent a Dread Thread:

Geocox Originally posted:

Tropicana,
You think this is about Morality, that's your view, It's not why this thread was started.
It's about finding out about Jamaica.

How can you be so narrow minded that you don't see the reason why this exists.
I love Sister Nancy's example of getting an education in Ja and what do Jamaicans do with higher education; they get the hell out of the country, as you did.

De man noh know nutten bout me but im can state dat me did, to quote him "get the hell out" after receiving my education. Well mi know mi bright but mi nevah did 'ave no dilpoma when mi did lef' yaad AS A TODDLER!!

There is no way to get UP in Ja. How many people cant read or write in Ja,how does this happen? In a country that charges for the diploma.
Education should be free to all, it's not, that's why people just take a different direction.
You need to be smarter about your country; not just your church views.

Geo

The section that is bolded is insulting AND condescending.


Acquiring Marketable Skills Thread

Geocox Originally Posted:

You can go to school, to have proof of the schooling that's where the parents must pay for the diploma. This is a form of a tax on the poor.

Kidds going to these schools is something I see driving through the country. I am amassed, how happy the kids look, how well dressed they are.

My friend can spell better than I can, compose a letter better than I, she was only able to go to primary school.
So there is allot to say about the quality of the schooling.
It's what happens when the $$$$ comes into the equation.
School stops and there is no help for the poor.

My response:

So please, don't imply that there are no opportunities for Jamaicans to acquire marketable skills or say that there are is "no help for the poor". That is an insult to every Jamaican individual, family (including mine) and organization that has provided help. Many of our families (including mine) would not be where they are today if they had not received help.

Now if one were to say that there is not nearly enough financial aid and that we need a LOT more, I would agree with that 100%.

There were others but this will suffice for now.

[SistahD]

Re: Soooo I knwo we have freedom of speech to an extent here

Originally posted by remo:
[qb] I was called trash when I objected to a particular trip report a few months ago.Take a look http://www.jamaicans.com/ubb/ultimat...3;t=003788;p=4 [/qb]

(((remo))) I'm in full agreement with your comment.... can't wait to meet and beat you LOL [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] (in dominoes that is) [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Nunya]

Re: Soooo I knwo we have freedom of speech to an extent here

Originally posted by mountaingal:
[qb]...you may be right - i don't necessarily see your conclusion about (in this instance) any poster's "true intentions" being to subvert. perhaps because i can't see what would be their rationale for subversion.

i've seen threads/posters in other forums that i felt were trying to subvert the harmony of the board for reasons including perhaps pique or revenge. a consistent campaign by other posters in the forum to point out the person's misinformation and agenda is usually very effective in controlling such attempts.

i can't say i've seen in the tourist discussions any degree of effort to subvert. what i see is people believing they have a unique perspective on jamaican life based on the company they keep. i do see a lot of misinformation, but i also see a few bits of truth in what they say.

on a level, i don't think we can realistically talk about stopping any *ish* now (actually, i'm not exactly sure what you're implying with that statement). people come and go on the bulletin board, misinformation and misperception are ongoing features, not limited to any forum.

Sienna made a good suggestion for dealing people who have concerns about Jamaica's image and any false information being portrayed in the tourist forums - let's go to those forums and post our corrections and educate people and ourselves, and let's do so in a constructive way (i can't stress that constructive part enough, it includes treating each other respectfully).

[/qb]

When I say subvert, I mean that these posters are trying to corrupt this site. They are trying to debase it - bring it down (or as one would put it, bring it 'up' make it freer, because after all, they are radical...)

Are they trying to subvert out of spite? Yes. Old grudges and all that...

Another reason for this subversion is that they want the board to be like the Jamaica they 'know' - purely hedonistic. An 'anything goes' website...

Then when we speak up, we get chastised for being, unfriendly, unwelcoming. We get told that we're burying our heads in the sand and hiding from the 'truths'...

I am tired mntgal. Many others are too. Notice how many fun posters have stopped posting? I have heard from quite a few - and their reason is that they are tired of the ish too...

So in an attempt to be more free, more accomodating, we are losing posters who were the essence of Ja.com. And in their place are so many who consistently spew this subversive misinformation...

and we should each and every time try to educate...

We're tired of it.

[Suesumba]

Re: Soooo I knwo we have freedom of speech to an extent here

Let the healing begin?

"The truth is an offence
but not a sin
is he who laugh last, children
is he who win
is a foolish dog
bark at the flying bird"

[remo]

Re: Soooo I knwo we have freedom of speech to an extent here

Originally posted by SistahD:
.... can't wait to meet and beat you LOL [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] (in dominoes that is) [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [/QB]

You guys still coming?
where are the confirmation phone calls?