Soooo I knwo we have freedom of speech to an extent here

[MarieK]

however, isn't it an underlying mission of this board to paint Jamaica in a positive light and shouldn't it be a duty or at least considered a duty to put to rest the many misconceptions foreigners looking for info on Jamaica?

I am not saying an all out censoring needs to be in effect but there are those of us Jamaicans who are bombarded constantly by posts demeaning and demoralizing our society.

Can I freely that if you go to the corner of 42nd and 8th you can get an american who is likely a desperate crack addict to do anything to score. No we can't.

It seems lately that there are some seeking to glamorize the rent-a-dread or the boops aspect as if that's all Jamaica is about.

Now today I am reading that many of our fellow Jamaicans don't have access to birth certificates.

I also read that our men have to put bags over the women's heads when sleeping with them (I am assuming the poster is referring to someone of their caliber) however it is not clear which means that I as a Jamaican woman can be thought of as being "bagged" during sex.

seriously some cleaning is needed and some revisions need to be made because people are coming away from this site with a bad bad taste in their mouths.

[MarieK]

Re: Soooo I knwo we have freedom of speech to an extent here

on secan tawt, bandi & churchie move ie dung a feedback ifyuh want,

mi wuzn't sure wedda fi put ie up yahso since a vent mi a vent

tank u

[Leonie]

Re: Soooo I knwo we have freedom of speech to an extent here

welcoem back to the board. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[MarieK]

Re: Soooo I knwo we have freedom of speech to an extent here

Originally posted by Leonie:
[qb] welcoem back to the board. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [/qb]

mi hungry [img]/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

no babes mi nuh really back and the next few weeks gonna be scarca dan before [img]/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

but seriously Lee, if mi coulda virtually pinch some peeple a woulda gi dem a pinch caue a mussi dream dem deh dream.

[Tropicana]

Re: Soooo I knwo we have freedom of speech to an extent here

MarieK, I agree with you 100%. That is HIGHLY disturbing. In some instances, the impression is being conveyed Jamaicans are unable to acquire marketable skills and have few options but to resort to hustling and rent-a-dread liaisons, there are no resources to help the poor and you have already mentioned the birth certificate thing.

What is particularly offensive is that when some of the Jamaicans on the board have attempted to speak up and correct some of this misinformation, we have been put down by people who are NOT Jamaican. Some of the people doing this are, by their own admission, hanging out with some of the more, shall we say, unsavoury characters in our society. If I were to categorically draw conclusions and post about Canadian society based on hanging out on Jarvis St. or Queesn St. East after dark, I would be drawn and quartered as I well should be. Just because someone has had sexual encounters with some Jamaican men or women (of questionable character I might add) does not make anyone an expert on our culture or society.

I agree with you MarieK. This is unacceptable.

[SistahD]

Re: Soooo I knwo we have freedom of speech to an extent here

(((MarieK, Leonie, Tropi))) I wholeheartedly agree. Every society / community has their problem areas, and no matter how much 'positive light' is shone on the good, fun, happy, positive things, what is going to stand out are the negatives and how some people dwell on them or project them. It's also awkward for people (like myself for example) who are trying to make a genuine, positive, unselfish contribution come in after the fact, and at times be mistaken or mis-classed based on the actions/words of others. thankfully I've tried to be careful in my choices, and respectful nuff to represent myself and be judged on my own merit.

[MarieK]

Re: Soooo I knwo we have freedom of speech to an extent here

If anyone knows what bureau of statistics issued this news it would be helpful

Most country Jamaicans don't have official papers, like a birth certificate or Passport.
If your in school and your family can pay for the Diploma you can go on to the next level, the poor don't have the ability to qualify.

also

if you knwo hwere the poll was taken and the following genral consensus taken on this let me know also

If a Jamaican family can send there child higher and higher they will get up and OUT.

So there is allot to say about the quality of the schooling.
It's what happens when the $$$$ comes into the equation.
School stops and there is no help for the poor.

is it me or isn't there still assistance available within the system, we see this evidenced daily, heck even in America we see poor people living worse than our poor in Jamaica

However, what kind of 'marketable skills' can one acquire in Jamaica today? What is 'marketable' there? Where are the opportunites that have not already been taken by those who have had an easier life (the middle and upper classes)? You know they just don't exist!

lookin roun, well ummm, afta mi neva come fram miggle or uppa class, an rite now mi fren who had one shirt fi di entiya 9 and 10 grade inna school and di same pants a big big executive inna a media company.

Nuff nuff oddas stawt dem own business with smarts, not parent's money, mi is quite successful and a nuh legacy put mi deh eeda

[Nunya]

Re: Soooo I knwo we have freedom of speech to an extent here

A which pawt dem de quote deh come fram??? Mi mouse nah work so mi cyaa go clicking all ova fi look fah... some direction would be appreciated.

[Tropicana]

Re: Soooo I knwo we have freedom of speech to an extent here

They came from these threads:

Another Take on 'Rent-A-Dread' Phenomenon

http://www.jamaicans.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=003595

Jamaica: Acquiring Marketable Skills

http://www.jamaicans.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=003602

Here is a quote from the thread I just listed:

Ladies,
School diplomas are not free. From what I understand, you can go to the lower schools but your parents must pay for your Diploma.

You can go to school, to have proof of the schooling that's where the parents must pay for the diploma. This is a form of a tax on the poor.

Geocox Originally posted:

I love Sister Nancy's example of getting an education in Ja and what do Jamaicans do with higher education; they get the hell out of the country, as you did.
There is no way to get UP in Ja.

[img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

How many people cant read or write in Ja,how does this happen? In a country that charges for the diploma.

[img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Education should be free to all, it's not, that's why people just take a different direction.

[img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

I have NEVER come across this and my folks were BOTH teachers before they left Ja. and well let's just say one of my relatives was so high up in the educational system that if I called his name nuff of oono would recognize it. Now unless things have changed DRASTICALLY since I was last in Jamaica....

Yup, just double checked with my Mom and she has NEVER heard of it. She taught in Jamaica for 7 years and she was a pupil teacher for 3 years. My dad taught in Jamaica for 7 years NOT including the time he taught as a probationer.


One more coming up:

http://www.jamaicans.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=005832;p=1

If you in JA, it is common occurrence for any tourist white or black to be approached by hotel workers. If you anyplace like Canada or U.S., you gotta look kinda cute to get a proposition from a hotel worker (or have a killa bod). They NOT looking for dollahs; they looking for a good time and they do not want to have to put a bag ovah your head to have that good time

[evanovitch]

Re: Soooo I knwo we have freedom of speech to an extent here

well u know when mi tek people to task about the residual damage their going on about their trysts to yard, mi was like a lone wolf ina di wilds...matter of fact, post get lock dung cause farriners took offense...den farriners continue dem damn foolishness while being patted on di back by odders wid dem same views...dem people seem to feel dat dem odd dollas whe dem save all year and whe dem put pon dem card fi facilitate dem frequent trip, plus de few gifts whe dem carry fi dem passeroes, is of such a backbone to we underpriviledged and deprived , dat dem can use di forum as dem private spread di news of di easy to find big bamboo...is u vacation yes, but di slant of the majority of posts an pictures is highly offensive to dis yardie and like mi tell dem, as long as poss da kine a way, mi deh backa dem...

notice di love of travel is strictly to yard whe di bamboo and weed seems to be de attraction...what is so sad, is dat people who would abhor being depicted dis way in dem own country have no compunction in treating dem brothers in another country dis way, all under the pretense of having found love and freedom in a black nation...u wouldn't go a di delta fi spread love and give help, but u go a yard whe u a gi people di impression dat u a di bastard Kennedy...den u have di odders who can love black people as long as dem have accent and is not in sight of dem family and contemporaries....

[Night Nurse]

Re: Soooo I knwo we have freedom of speech to an extent here

Originally posted by evanovitch:
[qb] well u know when mi tek people to task about the residual damage their going on about their trysts to yard, mi was like a lone wolf ina di wilds...matter of fact, post get lock dung cause farriners took offense...den farriners continue dem damn foolishness while being patted on di back by odders wid dem same views...dem people seem to feel dat dem odd dollas whe dem save all year and whe dem put pon dem card fi facilitate dem frequent trip, plus de few gifts whe dem carry fi dem passeroes, is of such a backbone to we underpriviledged and deprived , dat dem can use di forum as dem private spread di news of di easy to find big bamboo...is u vacation yes, but di slant of the majority of posts an pictures is highly offensive to dis yardie and like mi tell dem, as long as poss da kine a way, mi deh backa dem...

notice di love of travel is strictly to yard whe di bamboo and weed seems to be de attraction...what is so sad, is dat people who would abhor being depicted dis way in dem own country have no compunction in treating dem brothers in another country dis way, all under the pretense of having found love and freedom in a black nation...u wouldn't go a di delta fi spread love and give help, but u go a yard whe u a gi people di impression dat u a di bastard Kennedy...den u have di odders who can love black people as long as dem have accent and is not in sight of dem family and contemporaries.... [/qb]

AMEN, AMEN, AAAAAAAAAAAAAMEN! ^5

[SisterNancy]

Re: Soooo I knwo we have freedom of speech to an extent here

[evanovitch]

Re: Soooo I knwo we have freedom of speech to an extent here

Originally posted by SisterNancy:
[qb] Some questions for the Jamaicans here who are so disturbed by foreigners:

1. Since you are so critical of some of us, just what exactly is it that you would like to hear us saying about Jamaica? That we stayed in a nice resort? That the locals treated us well and served our pina coladas perfectly? That we never experienced anything in Jamaica that wasn't of fairy-tale, travel brochure quality?

2. Is it that you are assuming that those of us who have had some experiences with, as one of you put it 'unsavory' individuals, now run around telling everyone that this is what Jamaica is about?

3. Who said they don't think they could comment on finding a crack addict on a corner in NYC and not be criticized? Are you kidding? There are crack addicts all over America --- and they aren't just on corners in NYC. You'd be amazed at the many well-to-do Americans who are drug addicts!

4. Why do you perceive all that is being written about Jamaica as attemps to 'dis' your country? I have seen very, very few post on the tourist boards in which people 'dissed' Jamaica.

5. Would you please read my latest post under Tropicana's original "Acquiring Marketable Skills"
thread? [/qb]

mi a yardie and mi wi chat whatever mi want wid odda yardies pon a yardie board...

[britisha]

Re: Soooo I knwo we have freedom of speech to an extent here

Done that, now read mine.

Peace.

[Tropicana]

Re: Soooo I knwo we have freedom of speech to an extent here

SisterNancy, I will attempt to answer your questions and address some of the concerns you raised.

Originally posted by SisterNancy:
Some questions for the Jamaicans here who are so disturbed by foreigners:

1. Since you are so critical of some of us, just what exactly is it that you would like to hear us saying about Jamaica?

1. I would like you and others to stop spreading misinformation about Jamaica, specifically:

- giving people the impression that there are NO opportunities for Jamaicans to better themselves
- implying that there are no opportunties in Jamaica for people to acquire marketable skills
- trying to convey the message that hustling is the only option available to Jamaicans who are poor
- posting information that is out and out false such as stating that people have to pay for diplomas and most Jamaicans in the country don't have birth certificates
- insinuating that there is no help for the poor

2. Do what you want to do, we all make choices but some of you should stop creating excuses that put US down such as:

- implying that hooking up with a rent a dread is one of the only ways to get to know roots people
- that middle class people in Jamaica know nothing about roots culture
- that the reason oono enter into these sexual liaisons is to help the men better themselves

Sorry I don't buy it and I called you on it. There are others on here who don't buy it either and they have spoken in the rent a dread thread and others. The message that comes across is that we are so backward in Jamaica that the only way for these POOR men to get ahead is to hook up with you...like this is some kind of noble cause or social work project. That is foolishness.

3. In your responses, don't be so condescending. I could cut and paste some statements in which you and Geocox were talking down to us and in fact Geo even said that I needed to learn about my country instead of paying attention to the Bible... facety and out a oddah

4. As Jamaicans, we come from a culture in which Biblical values have been stressed...not always practiced 100% of the time as we are human but none the less stressed. When visitors come down and fly in the face of our values we have a RIGHT to speak about it so stop trying to tell us that we don't have a right to speak. It is our country and we will be living with the consequences of what goes on their LONG after some of you have gone elsewhere in search of adventure. Our children and grandchildren will ALSO have to live with the consequences. We have a right to speak.

That we stayed in a nice resort? That the locals treated us well and served our pina coladas perfectly? That we never experienced anything in Jamaica that wasn't of fairy-tale, travel brochure quality?

This is so condescending and sarcastic that I won't even dignify these questions with an answer. It is an example of your approach that is a HUGE turn off IMHO. Try taking a leaf out of SistahD's book. She is fun, open and warm. She doesn't back away from the tough issues but she doesn't discuss things in a manner that makes it sound like she knows more about Jamaica than Jamaicans. She is helpful and she makes a positive contribution here. Because of this she is loved and respected by a broad cross section of people on the board, even people who don't get along with each other.

2. Is it that you are assuming that those of us who have had some experiences with, as one of you put it 'unsavory' individuals, now run around telling everyone that this is what Jamaica is about?

Well when people talk about these experiences so much what impression do you expect people to get? We have a LOT to offer as a tourist destination and we don't wish to see these unsavoury aspects flaunted, promoted and increased. It has a detrimental impact on the moral tone of the society.

3. Who said they don't think they could comment on finding a crack addict on a corner in NYC and not be criticized? Are you kidding? There are crack addicts all over America --- and they aren't just on corners in NYC. You'd be amazed at the many well-to-do Americans who are drug addicts!

4. Why do you perceive all that is being written about Jamaica as attemps to 'dis' your country?

See my earlier comments about coming across in a condescending manner.

5. Would you please read my latest post under Tropicana's original "Acquiring Marketable Skills" thread?

Read it. You raised issues about tension between Black women and White women. I am open to discussing ANY issue at any time. That is not the issue at hand. IMHO, the issues are:

- spreading misinformation about our country
- coming across like you know more about our country than we do
- the condescending manner about which I have already spoken
- discussing unsavoury behaviour (if I had done some of the things that have been discussed or hung out with some of the people onoo talk about, bwoy me would feel so shame that I would hope no one ever found out about it. Show some pride man.

Others will comment I am sure if they are so inclined.