A Question to Ponder...Cain & Abel

[kthydvs]

Re: A Question to Ponder...Cain & Abel

It is often pointed out that Cain's offerings were not the choicest of fruits whereas Abel's offering is specified to have been the "firstlings of his flock, even their fatty pieces", however the problem does not appear to be the quality of the produce that Cain offered but as stated at Hebrews 11:4, Cain's offering lacked the motivation of faith that made Abel's sacrifice acceptable. It may also have been because Cain's offering was bloodless, whereas Abel's represented a life poured out.

The manner in which the distinction between the approved and the disapproved offerings made was not stated, but it was undoubtedly evident as God, who reads the heart of man (1Sa 16:7;
Ps 139:1-6) knew the wrong attitude of Cain and His rejection of Cain's sacrifice resulted in the wrong disposition being clearly manifest. "The works of the flesh" now began to be openly produced by Cain "enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger" (Gal 5:19,20). He could have humbled himself to imitate his brother's approved example, but he chose to ignore God's counsel to get mastery over the sinful desire that 'lurked at every door', craving to dominate him (Ge 4:6,7; compare Jas 1:14, 15). This disrespectful course was "the path of Cain" (Jude 11)

[Guest]

Re: A Question to Ponder...Cain & Abel

Originally posted by CEW:
[qb] Well, let me share with you what I came across sometime ago and you can join in with your thoughts. I do not have the article on hand so I am going from memory.

You may recall that after Adam & Eve sinned, God cursed the ground and Adam would have to work it for it to produce. Cain's offering came out of that cursed ground. In addition, it was the fruit of his own efforts, and in God's scheme of things, nothing we can do on our own can make us justified in His sight, so Cain's sacrifice was rejected.

Adam on the other hand offered "the firstlings of his flock". It is true that he had to shed blood, and this was very indicative of what we have come to know since. That without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins. You may also recall that when Adam & Eve sinned, God "sacrificed" animals and covered them with the skin. The shedding of blood was somewhat futuristic of what Christ would eventually do, and as such, was deemed acceptable by God.

Makes a lot of sense to me. [/qb]

Hmmm! interesting perspective. I have thought and thought on it for a long time and the only thing I could come up with was the fact that it was not a blood sacrifice, and later on in the book of Leviticus we see the priests and Levites told how to atone for sin. But without the help of Leviticus I would have been at a loss as to why Cain's sacrifice was rejected. I also wondered if God had previously instructed them on what type of sacrifice was pleasing to him and somehow Cain chose to ignore Him. The other thing that got me confused is that grain is an acceptable offering, and in fact is a picture of the body of Christ in the sacraments, so then again I wondered why was the produce of the land in Cain and Abels time not acceptable?

[DC]

Re: A Question to Ponder...Cain & Abel

mmmmmmm interesting thoughts CEW and Kumba..

[Guest]

Re: A Question to Ponder...Cain & Abel

Good point (((Kumba))) notice that even though God rejected Cain's offering He did not reject Cain the person and even told him why He had rejected his offering. He even went as far to warn him about the jealousy lurking in his heart, but Cain chose to kill his brother out of sheer jealousy.

[Diplomat]

Re: A Question to Ponder...Cain & Abel

Jedi: I think we are somewhat "confused" as we do not know if instructions were issued regarding how the sacrifices - prior to the Levitical laws - were to be offered.

Regarding Kumba's post, I am preplexed regarding the "attitude" of Cain. Up to the time of the sacrifice, there was nothing to suggest that he was of questionable attitude/character.

[Diplomat]

Re: A Question to Ponder...Cain & Abel

Another perspective:

By faith Abel offered to God a more acceptable sacrifice than Cain's" (Hebrews 11:4). Cain and Abel were brothers. Both were farmers. Cain offered some of the grain he had grown, but Abel kept sheep, and he offered a lamb from the flock. Why was Cain's sacrifice rejected, but Abel's sacrifice acceptable to God? Both had faith, but I picture Cain's faith as a kind of bribing faith. "I have had a good harvest, so I will give some of the grain to God to guarantee he will bless my next harvest." I will call Abel's faith "Thanksgiving Faith." In those days when a lamb was killed for the family to eat they would pray "Thank you, God, that this animal has died so we can eat." Before the lamb was roasted, the fat was cut away and burned on the altar. That might be a good idea for us who are bothered by excess cholesterol! As the smoke from the burning fat ascended, they pictured their prayer of thanksgiving ascending to God.

Bribing faith is never acceptable to God. We cannot earn his love. But as we gather for communion (the word Eucharist means thanksgiving) in a few minutes, we will be offering the sacrifice of thanksgiving. We sing "Nothing in my hand I bring; simply to thy cross I cling." Like Abel thousands of years ago, we know we cannot bribe God by our offerings, but by faith we can say "I am thankful that Jesus the Lamb of God has come and died for me so I can live and have the assurance of his resurrection life." That is why "Abel received approval as righteous, God himself giving approval to his gifts; he died, but through his faith he still lives" (Hebrews 11:4).

Source: Faith

[Guest]

Re: A Question to Ponder...Cain & Abel

Originally posted by CEW:
[qb] Jedi:
Regarding Kumba's post, I am preplexed regarding the "attitude" of Cain. Up to the time of the sacrifice, there was nothing to suggest that he was of questionable attitude/character. [/qb]

Good point (((CEW))) again one would have to read forward and then go back as with the sacrifices to come to some type of deduction. But one thing is very sure, God could read Cain's heart and so hence we see Him telling him about the sin lurking at his door. But wasn't Cain stubborn and hell bent on killing Abel anyway? That really always perplexes me.

[Diplomat]

Re: A Question to Ponder...Cain & Abel

Yet another intriguing perspective:

Genesis 4:3,5 reads, "And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the Lord. . . . But unto Cain and to his offering [God] had not respect." A primary element of the sacrificial system given through Moses involved the type and condition of the animal to be sacrificed. Sacrifices, in general, had to be an animal of the flock. Cain did not bring an animal, but "the fruit of the ground." Although the reason for God's rejection of the sacrifice is not given, it is noteworthy that the sacrifice did not satisfy the Mosaic law. Because of the import of the story of Cain and Abel, one would expect an explanation for God's refusal of Cain's sacrifice. The lack of an explicit explanation suggests an implicit explanation. The Hebrew reader, for whom Genesis was originally written and who was well acquainted with the specifics of the sacrificial system, probably would not consider the account as vague, but rather, conclude without questioning that Cain's sacrifice was rejected for it's failure to meet the requirements of the, later to be recorded, "Mosaic" law.

Source: Cain's Sacrifice

[Diplomat]

Re: A Question to Ponder...Cain & Abel

Originally posted by Jedi l:
[qb]

Originally posted by CEW:
[qb] Jedi:
Regarding Kumba's post, I am preplexed regarding the "attitude" of Cain. Up to the time of the sacrifice, there was nothing to suggest that he was of questionable attitude/character. [/qb]

Good point (((CEW))) again one would have to read forward and then go back as with the sacrifices to come to some type of deduction. But one thing is very sure, God could read Cain's heart and so hence we see Him telling him about the sin lurking at his door. But wasn't Cain stubborn and hell bent on killing Abel anyway? That really always perplexes me. [/qb]

We are left to think that he resolved to kill Abel out of sheer jealousy. Instead of finding out from God what the problem was, and correcting it, he took out his anger on his brother. I am thinking he was probably trying to bribe God into granting him favor as one of the explanations suggests. Very intriguing stuff.

[Diplomat]

Re: A Question to Ponder...Cain & Abel

The Muslim perspective:

Summary: Cain and Abel both offered sacrifices to Allah, but their sacrifices signified opposite approaches to Allah. Abel killed his firstborn lamb and offered it upon an altar to Allah. He knew that he was a sinner who was under the curse of death, so he offered a substitutionary sacrifice for his sins and acceptance. Cain offered his cultivated fruits in thanks to Allah for his abundant harvest. He did not recognize that he was a sinner who deserved death and judgment. He thought that Allah would accept his Thank You Offering on the basis of his own righteousness and diligent good works. But this is the wrong basis to approach Allah, so his sacrifice was rejected. Allah asked Cain to offer a sin offering, but he rejected Allah's gracious words and murdered his brother.

Ever since the beginning of human history, people have sought to approach Allah one of these two opposing ways. There are many religions whose followers come to Allah believing that Allah will accept them if they try to be righteous and fulfill their various religious rituals. In contrast, the Old and New Testament prophets and apostles teach us that approach to Allah must be on the basis of substitutionary sacrifice. By this approach we recognize that we are sinners who are unacceptable in our own righteousness. We need the righteousness that comes from Allah alone by faith. This is the teaching of the true prophets of Allah.

Source: Way of Cain

[Guest]

Re: A Question to Ponder...Cain & Abel

Hmmmm! Well we are left to think many things, one of the things that strike me is that this jealousy did not just surface overnight or on the very day that his sacrifice was rejected. Usually people have been harboring grudges for a long time. It could also be that Abel was well liked by his family in general and was given to being generous and kind hearted whereas Cain was more of a mean spirited individual and recieved less praises, these things begin in childhood.

Reminds me of tithing with the wrong attitude

[Diplomat]

Re: A Question to Ponder...Cain & Abel

Jedi: I think the answer can be found in Jeremiah 17:9 "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?", and the fact that all our actions stems from there. Whatever Cain felt could have been provoked by the rejection and came to the fore with his inability to control his emotions, and the ultimate killing of his brother.

[Guest]

Re: A Question to Ponder...Cain & Abel

(((CEW))) what do you make of what happened to Cain after he killed his brother. That also intrigues me, that God would offer him protection where ever he went. Sort of reminds me of what happened to Israel.

[Diplomat]

Re: A Question to Ponder...Cain & Abel

Yeah, I have always wondered about that. He marked Cain visibly and told him that anyone who killed Cain would get Cain's curse -- only seven times bigger (Genesis 4:15). It has been suggested that "the mark of Cain was to help keep him from being physically harmed while he was a stranger and a vagabond. It did not guarantee his safety, it only promised a worse fate for those who harmed him. We cannot be certain whether the mark was an actual physical sign or something else." I am very intrigued as to what God had in mind. Perhaps He was setting the ground rules that says it was wrong to kill, even in retaliation?

[kthydvs]

Re: A Question to Ponder...Cain & Abel

Originally posted by CEW:
[qb] Regarding Kumba's post, I am preplexed regarding the "attitude" of Cain. Up to the time of the sacrifice, there was nothing to suggest that he was of questionable attitude/character. [/qb]

There is little written regarding the history of Cain and Abel prior to the first murder committed. However as Jedi pointed out, we have to go forward to glean an understanding of the attitude that Cain displayed. 1John 3:11,12 show's Cain's heart attitude to have been bad; and his later rejection of God's counsel and warning, as well as his premeditated murder of his brother Abel, demonstrated this. As we are not able to read the heart condition of man, it is impossible for us to make any judgement regarding their thoughts until they carry them out. Not so for God, He is aware of our heart condition better than we understand ourselves.