Are some people more predisposed to becoming

**Fledgist** · 07-12-2003, 03:03 PM

Re: Are some people more predisposed to becoming

Originally posted by Jedi l:
[qb] Look (((Fledgist))) I can see where you are heading with this one, and I believe we have had umpteen discussions on the subject. Futhermore I think you are being disingenuous as far as slave owners wanting their slaves to know the bible. Reading the bible or anything at all was cause for a slave to be hung and I am sure you are only too aware of that. I noticed however that you avoided my first question which is why do people even now almost 200years after slavery has been abolished, and given all that history has taught them still convert to Christianity? Are certain people predisposed to becoming Christians? If you can't answer just say so. [/qb]

Because of the constant propaganda, obviously.

**Guest** · 07-12-2003, 06:53 PM

Re: Are some people more predisposed to becoming

Originally posted by Fledgist:
[qb]

Originally posted by Jedi l:
[qb] Look (((Fledgist))) I can see where you are heading with this one, and I believe we have had umpteen discussions on the subject. Futhermore I think you are being disingenuous as far as slave owners wanting their slaves to know the bible. Reading the bible or anything at all was cause for a slave to be hung and I am sure you are only too aware of that. I noticed however that you avoided my first question which is why do people even now almost 200years after slavery has been abolished, and given all that history has taught them still convert to Christianity? Are certain people predisposed to becoming Christians? If you can't answer just say so. [/qb]

Because of the constant propaganda, obviously. [/qb]

No amount of propaganda can change anyone's mind. Man by nature is autonomous, relinquishing his rights to himself and repenting of sin which is what the gospel calls for is not in man's nauture. No one is naturally predisposed to becoming good or serving a God. It is purely supernatural... watch this now !

**fOrTyLeGz** · 07-12-2003, 07:08 PM

Re: Are some people more predisposed to becoming

[QB]

Originally posted by Jedi l:

Are certain people predisposed to becoming Christians?

Let me answer your question by asking a question... are some people presisposed to becoming moonies or ESTholes? Are some people predisposed to becoming Scientologists or al Queda terrorists?

Christianity wrestled with this issue hundreds of years ago... you used to be able to buy your way into heaven, or even get there through good deeds, but then along came grace. Now Grace decides who gets the Christian thing.

**Guest** · 07-12-2003, 07:25 PM

Re: Are some people more predisposed to becoming

Originally posted by fOrTyLeGz:
[qb] [QB]

Originally posted by Jedi l:

Are certain people predisposed to becoming Christians?

Let me answer your question by asking a question... are some people presisposed to becoming moonies or ESTholes? Are some people predisposed to becoming Scientologists or al Queda terrorists?

Jedi: Very good point (((Forty))) by the way I knew you would come... [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] But this only supports another theory - Men by nature are worshippers!

Christianity wrestled with this issue hundreds of years ago... you used to be able to buy your way into heaven, or even get there through good deeds,

Jedi: Correction you were never able to buy your way into heaven that was akin to some of the modern day money making schemes abounding everywhere. The eh-em "church" involved in this made bundles from selling indulgences, and having people paying for such services as pennaces and praying people out of "pergotory" etc. Then along came a man named Luther...

but then along came grace. Now Grace decides who gets the Christian thing. [/qb]

Not grace but God who draws men to His Son. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

**Israelites** · 07-13-2003, 02:34 AM

Re: Are some people more predisposed to becoming

Hmm, tribal is a racist term. I guess thats why it is politically correct to say the Navajo Nation now, even though most Navajo to this day would rather claim proudly to be a pure blooded member of the Navajo Tribe than of the Navajo Nation! Or Apache Tribe, Cherokee, etc. (I know I'm quite proud to know I have a little blood from the Navajo Tribe coursing through my veins! I could care less about the 'Navajo Nation' tho).

But then I guess all those members of the Native American tribes are racist.

**britisha** · 07-13-2003, 04:52 AM

Re: Are some people more predisposed to becoming

Originally posted by Jedi l:
Jedi: Very good point (((Forty))) by the way I knew you would come... [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
Jedi: Correction you were never able to buy your way into heaven that was akin to some of the modern day money making schemes abounding everywhere. The eh-em "church" involved in this made bundles from selling indulgences, and having people paying for such services as pennaces and praying people out of "pergotory" etc. Then along came a man named Luther...

Only the daft wouldn't after reading this drivel know that you here are referring to the Roman Catholic church. I can only sympathise with you for it is self-evident that you do not know what you are talking about in your undying quest to ridicule the Roman Catholic church.

Regarding Martin Luther and the Reformation, I would give yuu some credit if you had outlined the differences in the Church that he formed and the RC church, the church from which sooo many "christian" churches are derivatives today. **DWL** Martin Luther was successful in the Reformation primarily because of the socio-political happenings of the period, gaining much support from the princes and the powerful. quote:

His advocacy of the independence of rulers from papal supervision won him the support of many princes.

He was a notorious anti-Semite:

http://www.humanitas-international.org/showcase/chronography/documents/luther-jews.htm

Luther: "If Moses should attempt to intimidate you with his stupid Ten Commandments, tell him right out: chase yourself to the Jews" (Luther's Works, Wittenberg ed., ad.5:1573).

...so the Catholic church did well to excommunicate him. Let me quickly add while the catholic church was also regarded as being anti-Semitic, and one Pope being referred to as Hitler's pope, it yet has to be seen anything to compare to what is linked here.

but then along came grace. Now Grace decides who gets the Christian thing.

Not grace but God who draws men to His Son. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Now here are some quotes from Luther:

"I burn with a thousand flames in my unsubdued flesh: I feel myself carried on with rage towards women that approaches madness. I who ought to be fervent in spirit, am only fervent in impurity" ("Table Talk" cited in O'Hare p. 315).

"I, Martin Luther, slew all the peasants in the rebellion, for I said they should be slain; all their blood is upon my head. But I put it upon the Lord God by whose command I spoke . . . My little book against the peasants is quite in the right and shall remain so, even if all the world were to be scandalized at it"
(Luther's Works, Erlangen ed., 24.299).

If this isn't a lunatic, no one is!! Who is the laugh on? The RC Church or Luther?

edited for typos

**Tropicana** · 07-13-2003, 10:07 AM

Re: Are some people more predisposed to becoming

Britisha, I had never seen those quotes from Martin Luther before. What an eye opener. It is clear that some of the areas of concern in modern evangelical churches that I write about from time to time were evident from the inception of the protestant reformation movement. The seeds of racism and sexism were shown really early. I didn't know that. Now tthat this has been brought t my attention, I can't say that it surprises me. I am left thinking..of course. Similar to how I felt when I learned the truth about Thomas Jefferson. Please share more Britisha. Perhaps in a separate thread.

**rasthadan** · 07-13-2003, 11:01 AM

Re: Are some people more predisposed to becoming

Interesting discussion. I have read Luther. Usually the Christian cure to Christian problems are worse than the illeness. I think some people are more predisposed to religion than others because of a personality weakness. Is that genetic? Is it mental? Most are just brainwashed into a religion by parents, society and tradition. A few do have "mystical experiences" but here we are dealing with the creative workings of the mind as it searches for answers not easily available. It's a human weakness, I don't think a lion thinks more than so. His religion is instinct and being a lion. As for the Good Book? Well with all due respect the Old Testament is really a horror story. Who is worst God or the demands of uncontrolled nature. The land of milk and honey was an invasion and maybe a genocide. Does a God actually give instructions like that? If the New Testament proceeds fron the Old, god save us. The Bible was the main literary tool available to all and so the brainwashing through ongoing interpretations chosen according to your or "their" needs still influences those with a weaker predesposition and lack of guide. The flock is the herd, we are the sheep and them shepherds out there in the Good Book have the Shepherd's Guide to his flock. I am still trying to identify the sheep dogs that keep everybody together. I am religious, but what is being a Christian? I have 365 different definitions of it. Love, respect, truth, trust and once in a while a good defensive slap sounds good to begin a definition. If the tendency to become a Christian is genetic, why bother with missionaries and scare tactics, let nature run it's course, after all somewhere along the line as we have done, we will invent some religion to explain what we can't explain or rationalise. Sorry if I create confusion but religion creates confusion. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

**britisha** · 07-13-2003, 11:22 AM

Re: Are some people more predisposed to becoming

Originally posted by Tropicana:
[qb] Britisha, I had never seen those quotes from Martin Luther before. What an eye opener. It is clear that some of the areas of concern in modern evangelical churches that I write about from time to time were evident from the inception of the protestant reformation movement. The seeds of racism and sexism were shown really early. I didn't know that. Now tthat this has been brought t my attention, I can't say that it surprises me. I am left thinking..of course. Similar to how I felt when I learned the truth about Thomas Jefferson. Please share more Britisha. Perhaps in a separate thread. [/qb]

Read my new thread. This is so nonsensical to start with; it provides for good laughter. Consider the meaning of "predispose." The use of it here would only imply that "christianity" is something pathologic to the extent that some can be predisposed to it.

predispose
SYLLABICATION: pre·dis·pose
PRONUNCIATION: AUDIO: prd-spz KEY
VERB: Inflected forms: pre·dis·posed, pre·dis·pos·ing, pre·dis·pos·es

TRANSITIVE VERB: 1a. To make (someone) inclined to something in advance: His good manners predispose people in his favor. See synonyms at incline. b. To make susceptible or liable: conditions that predispose miners to lung disease.
2. Archaic To settle or dispose of in advance.
INTRANSITIVE VERB: To provide an inclination or susceptibility: a genetic trait that predisposes to the development of cancer.

Okay let us accept that for the sake of argument, then how do you explain people becoming Christians of their own free will 2000 years later after slavery has been abolished?

Fetch this, 2000 years!!

This is what I mean about not haaving the foggiest of notion of what she is talking about. Sad indeed!! No wonder she missed Rolling Calf's point that some people have a predisposition to mental illness based on genetics.

...and last but not least: The sad reality is a profesed christian joining with a professed atheist to ridicule the Catholic church. What do you call that? Objective comments could have been made without the ignorant slurs and mocking reference to "pergotory" whatever that means.

**Guest** · 07-13-2003, 02:46 PM

Re: Are some people more predisposed to becoming

Originally posted by britisha:
[qb]

Originally posted by Tropicana:
[qb] Britisha, I had never seen those quotes from Martin Luther before. What an eye opener. It is clear that some of the areas of concern in modern evangelical churches that I write about from time to time were evident from the inception of the protestant reformation movement. The seeds of racism and sexism were shown really early. I didn't know that. Now tthat this has been brought t my attention, I can't say that it surprises me. I am left thinking..of course. Similar to how I felt when I learned the truth about Thomas Jefferson. Please share more Britisha. Perhaps in a separate thread. [/qb]

Read my new thread. This is so nonsensical to start with; it provides for good laughter. Consider the meaning of "predispose." The use of it here would only imply that "christianity" is something pathologic to the extent that some can be predisposed to it.

predispose
SYLLABICATION: pre·dis·pose
PRONUNCIATION: AUDIO: prd-spz KEY
VERB: Inflected forms: pre·dis·posed, pre·dis·pos·ing, pre·dis·pos·es

TRANSITIVE VERB: 1a. To make (someone) inclined to something in advance: His good manners predispose people in his favor. See synonyms at incline. b. To make susceptible or liable: conditions that predispose miners to lung disease.
2. Archaic To settle or dispose of in advance.
INTRANSITIVE VERB: To provide an inclination or susceptibility: a genetic trait that predisposes to the development of cancer.

Okay let us accept that for the sake of argument, then how do you explain people becoming Christians of their own free will 2000 years later after slavery has been abolished?

Fetch this, 2000 years!!

This is what I mean about not haaving the foggiest of notion of what she is talking about. Sad indeed!! No wonder she missed Rolling Calf's point that some people have a predisposition to mental illness based on genetics.

...and last but not least: The sad reality is a profesed christian joining with a professed atheist to ridicule the Catholic church. What do you call that? Objective comments could have been made without the ignorant slurs and mocking reference to "pergotory" whatever that means.

[/qb]

Someday you will wake up to the reality that YOU are not the ambassador to the Roman Catholic Church (which should come as no surprise to anyone... God forbid ) and that when it is mentioned whether for good or for bad in any discussion, it is no reflection on YOU per se (obviously not ), nor is it an invitation for you to enter a thread to malign or redicule those with whom you are holding a grudge You would be surprised to know that no matter how bad you think I look when YOU come into a thread started by ME using your weak defense of Roman Catholicism as a spring board to hoist me with your petard, it only shows YOUR true character for what it is. It would be best if you would show due respect as * I * have shown you and stay clear of any thread started by me.

Thank you Britisha and you have yourself a good and God glorifying Sunday Editied to add: My Fellow Christian!

**Fledgist** · 07-13-2003, 06:01 PM

Re: Are some people more predisposed to becoming

Originally posted by Jedi l:
[qb]

Originally posted by Fledgist:
[qb]

Originally posted by Jedi l:
[qb] Look (((Fledgist))) I can see where you are heading with this one, and I believe we have had umpteen discussions on the subject. Futhermore I think you are being disingenuous as far as slave owners wanting their slaves to know the bible. Reading the bible or anything at all was cause for a slave to be hung and I am sure you are only too aware of that. I noticed however that you avoided my first question which is why do people even now almost 200years after slavery has been abolished, and given all that history has taught them still convert to Christianity? Are certain people predisposed to becoming Christians? If you can't answer just say so. [/qb]

Because of the constant propaganda, obviously. [/qb]

No amount of propaganda can change anyone's mind. Man by nature is autonomous, relinquishing his rights to himself and repenting of sin which is what the gospel calls for is not in man's nauture. No one is naturally predisposed to becoming good or serving a God. It is purely supernatural... watch this now ! [/qb]

This is rubbish. Human beings (and 'man' by itself is sexist) do not have a fixed nature if they can make autonomous choices. Make up your mind.

**Israelites** · 07-13-2003, 06:04 PM

Re: Are some people more predisposed to becoming

I swear it is like a soap opera in here at times, so much drama, kinda like:

**Fledgist** · 07-13-2003, 06:04 PM

Re: Are some people more predisposed to becoming

Originally posted by Jedi l:
[qb] Someday you will wake up to the reality that YOU are not the ambassador to the Roman Catholic Church (which should come as no surprise to anyone... God forbid ) and that when it is mentioned whether for good or for bad in any discussion, it is no reflection on YOU per se (obviously not ), nor is it an invitation for you to enter a thread to malign or redicule those with whom you are holding a grudge You would be surprised to know that no matter how bad you think I look when YOU come into a thread started by ME using your weak defense of Roman Catholicism as a spring board to hoist me with your petard, it only shows YOUR true character for what it is. It would be best if you would show due respect as * I * have shown you and stay clear of any thread started by me.

Thank you Britisha and you have yourself a good and God glorifying Sunday Editied to add: My Fellow Christian! [/qb]

While I don't have a horse in this particular race, I do have to note that Jedi has managed to hit complete incoherence in record time -- starting with the inability to distinguish between 'to' and 'from'.

**Israelites** · 07-13-2003, 06:11 PM

Re: Are some people more predisposed to becoming

Originally posted by britisha:
[qb]

The sad reality is a profesed christian joining with a professed atheist to ridicule the Catholic church. [/qb]

True, I tend to think the Catholic church doesn't need any assistance in that, it manages the area on its own quite well. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

**neutral** · 07-13-2003, 07:12 PM

Re: Are some people more predisposed to becoming

Originally posted by Israelites:True, I tend to think the Catholic church doesn't need any assistance in that, it manages the area on its own quite well. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] [/QB]

too true,lol, [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Are some people more predisposed to becoming

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