Are some people more predisposed to becoming

[Fledgist]

Re: Are some people more predisposed to becoming

Originally posted by Jedi l:
[qb]

Originally posted by Fledgist:
[qb]

Originally posted by Jedi l:
[qb]

Originally posted by Fledgist:
[qb]

Originally posted by Jedi l:
[qb]

Originally posted by Fledgist:
[qb]

Originally posted by Jedi l:
[qb] Look (((Fledgist))) I can see where you are heading with this one, and I believe we have had umpteen discussions on the subject. Futhermore I think you are being disingenuous as far as slave owners wanting their slaves to know the bible. Reading the bible or anything at all was cause for a slave to be hung and I am sure you are only too aware of that. I noticed however that you avoided my first question which is why do people even now almost 200years after slavery has been abolished, and given all that history has taught them still convert to Christianity? Are certain people predisposed to becoming Christians? If you can't answer just say so. [/qb]

Because of the constant propaganda, obviously. [/qb]

No amount of propaganda can change anyone's mind. Man by nature is autonomous, relinquishing his rights to himself and repenting of sin which is what the gospel calls for is not in man's nauture. No one is naturally predisposed to becoming good or serving a God. It is purely supernatural... watch this now ! [/qb]

This is rubbish. Human beings (and 'man' by itself is sexist) do not have a fixed nature if they can make autonomous choices. Make up your mind. [/qb]

I disagree with you the two are not mutually exclusive. If that is true then why are children trained to be obedient from the earliest possible stage? Please explain that to me. [/qb]

*Yawn*.

If people have a fixed nature, then they can make only certain kinds of choices as all others would be alien to their nature. If people can make autonomous choices, then the range of choice can only be limited by outside circumstances (if I have only $10 in my pocket, I can't choose to have a five course meal, for example).

Children can be taught many things, be it noted. Mine have been taught to think for themselves and to behave rationally. To teach obedience, after all, is to train slaves. [/qb]

So then by your logic mankind is not naturally autonomous, is that what you are implying here? Do people have to be taught to choose freely?

Teaching a child to behave rationally is akin to teaching obedience whether you like the word obedience or not. [/qb]

In the determinism vs. free-will stakes, I'm a weak determinist. Human capacity for choice is related, I believe, to the capacity to learn.

Obedience may be rational in some circumstances, but rational behaviour includes a range of possibilities. To teach obedience, tout court, is to indoctrinate into slavery.

[LadyDayshah]

Re: Are some people more predisposed to becoming

So then,the command/insistence on obeying the laws of the land can be considered slavery???and we are slaves to obey these laws???

[ohliz]

Re: Are some people more predisposed to becoming

I feel like a broken record sometimes but:

whatever denomination these "christians" or religious believers follow,they all display one characterisic,they are all intolerant of others that are also predisposed to follow any denomination other than theirs.

That's just not true. Religious intolerance is a weakness of fundamentalists, not all religious people.

[Fledgist]

Re: Are some people more predisposed to becoming

Originally posted by LadyDayshah:
[qb] So then,the command/insistence on obeying the laws of the land can be considered slavery???and we are slaves to obey these laws??? [/qb]

Only if the law is not an expression of the general will.

[LadyDayshah]

Re: Are some people more predisposed to becoming

Originally posted by Fledgist:
[qb]

Originally posted by LadyDayshah:
[qb] So then,the command/insistence on obeying the laws of the land can be considered slavery???and we are slaves to obey these laws??? [/qb]

Only if the law is not an expression of the general will. [/qb]

Which laws are those???Know of any???

So,all the laws/principles in the bible are not an expression of the general will???

[RollinCalf]

Re: Are some people more predisposed to becoming

O.K.

[Guest]

Re: Are some people more predisposed to becoming

Come people let us pay our respects to Marcia. Give this a rest for now. We can pick up again later but for now we need to be quieting our hearts and reflecting on ways that we can be more of a blessing to each other if that is possible on this forum. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[Fledgist]

Re: Are some people more predisposed to becoming

Originally posted by LadyDayshah:
[qb]

Originally posted by Fledgist:
[qb]

Originally posted by LadyDayshah:
[qb] So then,the command/insistence on obeying the laws of the land can be considered slavery???and we are slaves to obey these laws??? [/qb]

Only if the law is not an expression of the general will. [/qb]

Which laws are those???Know of any???

So,all the laws/principles in the bible are not an expression of the general will??? [/qb]

Did you have the right to participate in their formulation? Do you have the right to participate in their amendment, repeal or replacement? If the answer to these questions is 'no', then those laws are not expressions of the general will.

[rasthadan]

Re: Are some people more predisposed to becoming

With all due respect to Marsha, I didn't have a chance to know her, except as Ackeegirl and I like ackee. we all die and that does not stop the debate. If anything it drives it on. I am sure that by reading her postings, (I've being doing research) she would have preferred that the show goes on. That is the best memorial to her spirit and driving force. This thread has become important and the discussion is not yet resolved
[img]/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[LadyDayshah]

Re: Are some people more predisposed to becoming

Originally posted by Fledgist:
[qb]

Originally posted by LadyDayshah:
[qb]

Originally posted by Fledgist:
[qb]

Originally posted by LadyDayshah:
[qb] So then,the command/insistence on obeying the laws of the land can be considered slavery???and we are slaves to obey these laws??? [/qb]

Only if the law is not an expression of the general will. [/qb]

Which laws are those???Know of any???

So,all the laws/principles in the bible are not an expression of the general will??? [/qb]

Did you have the right to participate in their formulation?

Ladydayshah:No,I wasn't born yet. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] Also,I know that following them can only work out to my benefit.


Do you have the right to participate in their amendment, repeal or replacement? [/qb]

No,and there is no need for any of that.Anyone that follows most of these laws/principles,if not all of them,almost has no choice but to be happy. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] They are very beneficial.

So,when it comes to the laws of the land,I ask you to answer the same questions you posed to me.

[Fledgist]

Re: Are some people more predisposed to becoming

Originally posted by LadyDayshah:
[qb]

Originally posted by Fledgist:
[qb]

Originally posted by LadyDayshah:
[qb]

Originally posted by Fledgist:
[qb]

Originally posted by LadyDayshah:
[qb] So then,the command/insistence on obeying the laws of the land can be considered slavery???and we are slaves to obey these laws??? [/qb]

Only if the law is not an expression of the general will. [/qb]

Which laws are those???Know of any???

So,all the laws/principles in the bible are not an expression of the general will??? [/qb]

Did you have the right to participate in their formulation?

Ladydayshah:No,I wasn't born yet. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] Also,I know that following them can only work out to my benefit.


{Fledgist: So you're saying that you're a willing slave.}

Do you have the right to participate in their amendment, repeal or replacement? [/qb]

No,and there is no need for any of that.Anyone that follows most of these laws/principles,if not all of them,almost has no choice but to be happy. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] They are very beneficial.

So,when it comes to the laws of the land,I ask you to answer the same questions you posed to me. [/qb]

How do you know they are beneficial? I know no such thing.

As to the laws of the land, if they are not products of the general will what are they?

[LadyDayshah]

Re: Are some people more predisposed to becoming

Originally posted by Fledgist:
[qb]

Originally posted by LadyDayshah:
[qb]

Originally posted by Fledgist:
[qb]

Originally posted by LadyDayshah:
[qb]

Originally posted by Fledgist:
[qb]

Originally posted by LadyDayshah:
[qb] So then,the command/insistence on obeying the laws of the land can be considered slavery???and we are slaves to obey these laws??? [/qb]

Only if the law is not an expression of the general will. [/qb]

Which laws are those???Know of any???

So,all the laws/principles in the bible are not an expression of the general will??? [/qb]

Did you have the right to participate in their formulation?

Ladydayshah:No,I wasn't born yet. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] Also,I know that following them can only work out to my benefit.


{Fledgist: So you're saying that you're a willing slave.}

Do you have the right to participate in their amendment, repeal or replacement? [/qb]

No,and there is no need for any of that.Anyone that follows most of these laws/principles,if not all of them,almost has no choice but to be happy. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] They are very beneficial.

So,when it comes to the laws of the land,I ask you to answer the same questions you posed to me. [/qb]

How do you know they are beneficial? I know no such thing.

As to the laws of the land, if they are not products of the general will what are they? [/qb]

I am not a slave.I can choose not to follow them.If you want to call me a willing slave then go ahead.At least a slave like that is probably a happy and content one.Do you consider yourself a slave to your job/carreer and to this US government or whichever gov. you're under????

I asked you to answer the questions that you posed to me.Please,hold off a little on answering a question with a question unless it is really necessary.

BTW-Aren't a lot,if not most,of the laws of the land based on bible principles/themes/laws???
I thought they were. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[Fledgist]

Re: Are some people more predisposed to becoming

Originally posted by LadyDayshah:
[qb]

Originally posted by Fledgist:
[qb]

Originally posted by LadyDayshah:
[qb]

Originally posted by Fledgist:
[qb]

Originally posted by LadyDayshah:
[qb]

Originally posted by Fledgist:
[qb]

Originally posted by LadyDayshah:
[qb] So then,the command/insistence on obeying the laws of the land can be considered slavery???and we are slaves to obey these laws??? [/qb]

Only if the law is not an expression of the general will. [/qb]

Which laws are those???Know of any???

So,all the laws/principles in the bible are not an expression of the general will??? [/qb]

Did you have the right to participate in their formulation?

Ladydayshah:No,I wasn't born yet. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] Also,I know that following them can only work out to my benefit.


{Fledgist: So you're saying that you're a willing slave.}

Do you have the right to participate in their amendment, repeal or replacement? [/qb]

No,and there is no need for any of that.Anyone that follows most of these laws/principles,if not all of them,almost has no choice but to be happy. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] They are very beneficial.

So,when it comes to the laws of the land,I ask you to answer the same questions you posed to me. [/qb]

How do you know they are beneficial? I know no such thing.

As to the laws of the land, if they are not products of the general will what are they? [/qb]

I am not a slave.I can choose not to follow them.If you want to call me a willing slave then go ahead.At least a slave like that is probably a happy and content one.Do you consider yourself a slave to your job/carreer and to this US government or whichever gov. you're under????

{Fledgist: A happy slave has renounced his or her humanity.}


I asked you to answer the questions that you posed to me.Please,hold off a little on answering a question with a question unless it is really necessary.

{Fledgist: Try to read more carefully.}

BTW-Aren't a lot,if not most,of the laws of the land based on bible principles/themes/laws???
I thought they were. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [/qb]

You should try to learn some history. You might also want to consider where in the Bible freedom of speech, the right of contract, the power of the people to choose their government, and freedom of religion are set forth as principles.

[LadyDayshah]

Re: Are some people more predisposed to becoming

[img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Fledgist]

Re: Are some people more predisposed to becoming

Originally posted by LadyDayshah:
[qb] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [/qb]

In other words, you have no response.