Jamaica/Japan Connections

[Serenity82]

Re: Jamaica/Japan Connections

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have never been a fan of Japanese culture in truth.. It is stikingly immitative.. And the case in point is the acceptance of Jamaican culture... Alot of the ideas that are veiwed as Japan are in fact facimiles of other cultures.... The writing script the ideas of Bushido were all copied from the Chinese.... The much vaunted miracle of zero defect quality management come from a English Professor who was resident in the US who postulated it in the 70's... My dealings with Japanese companies have been let us say less than pleasant... Oh they are honest but boy can they micro manage and are unable to delegate stuff they sub contracted to me... Buinsess as an Africa is like sex you should not fcuk, you should make love...

As a youth in my rebellious phase I was always struck by the fact that every one should rebel against the dreaded economic hegemony of the European.. At one stage I even beleived that the heros of the anti colonoial struggle should have joined the Asia Economic community that the Japanese used as their excuse for expansion in the 30's... Until I discovered the effects of the Japanese expansionism in Asia... It was brutal.. while vist the "River Kwai" legend and the number of Burmese killed dwafed the few Europeans starved to death... A visit to China show how deeply the hurt at tjhe atrocities is felt... Dont be fooled by heady excitment generated by the differences.. It is akin to the way the Tourist view us Jamaicans after a vist as slightly eccentric exotics....

As for trade.. They take our raw materials as coffee grind it and make a premium on it ? are you telling me that Jamaicans cant market our own premium brands or is it due to the fact that their is barriers to us manufacturing ground coffee and adding value to a raw material..

As for the reason for the trade, it is not so much as a natural fit. It was as an attempt to buy Jamaica's vote for them to reisatate whaling.... They did the same for the Antiguans...

Now let us turn to the herioc African Samuri.... Good an African who belonged to a Warrior Caste.. ..there is a fella called teh Scotish Samuri...Thomas baker Grover... A sort of Local Hero in Grampian http://heritage.scotsman.com/greatscots.cfm?id=38762005

This fella help lay the foundation of the destruction of the Fuedal systems that so many find romantic....Any one who develops beer industry cant be half bad... I am sure there is a American Samuri who doesnt look like Tom Cruise, a disenfranchised Union soldier, a Russia Samuri, a Korea Princess who married into the current Japanese Royal family, a chinese Samurai who introduced chinese script and one who introduced Taoism ..

Well I still say when the Spanish came the Taino should have massacred the hell out of them....
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ummm..
HUH? [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70394-sleeping.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eek2.gif[/img]

[Serenity82]

Re: Jamaica/Japan Connections

I agree. also, both are islands and I could go on and on. I like this thread and will be back.

[Wahalla]

Re: Jamaica/Japan Connections

Tropi it is sad to know how little you think of us men... And how when it comes down to it all you end up ajudging events by your perceptions of how men perceive you.... But then the highest form of poltics is based on ones own needs.. It is still as good a method as any I admit....

I belive that there is a danger that too many see nirvana when it is simply more of the same... I am merely pointing out that the Japanese have neither the inclination to be any thing other than what they are or have been.... Their past and current interactions in Asia bear testiment to this.The japanese interactions with Koreans, Okinowanas is always illuminative.... More illumative is the fact the reluctance of the Japanese to admit the korean ancestry of their royal family and the issue of comfort women still alive... when a japanese prime minister goes to lay a wreath at the fallen soldier monument to WWII I look at him with a certain incredulity.... It is the equavalent of the Angela Merkel going to lay a wreath to the SS...

<span style="color: #FF0000">For those of you who see black skin as a lodestone then ask what the Japanese did in Papua New Guinea to those tribes men and on the peoples of the islands of the pacific...</span>

Malcomn X made in his biography a comment about meeting people who stated there was no question of rascism in their communities, but when it was further questioned their were no non anglos in their community......

I take the simple Palmestonian adage as true.... No permanent allies permanent interests as the maxim for all interactions between nations.....

Japan, India and China are economic powers who cannot be ignored but they are equally as selfcentered in economics as Kanada or the Saudis.... I have no problem of visting and admiring..but analyse it for what it is...

As I am simple humble uneducated in top US universities eediat, so I view events through the prisim of historical president. It suggests caution is required.... My reticence to wards Japan et al is to do with the fact that they will buy our coffee in bulk.. but not as processed coffee which would give us a higher value... <span style="color: #FF0000">That is the fundamental issue of North South Trade</span>, the central flaw at the heart of globalisation..... And until this is addressed Jamaica will be competeing badly in terms of global commodities. A high value commondity should be maximised.... If they wont do this for a minor product to protect their market I am reluctant to see them as any thing other than anotehr potential explotative trading parntner.... I spent time in China and visted the place where the Japanese massacred the Chinese at Canton..... If they did this to people of similar ethnicity what would they do to those of us who look different.....?????

[Tropicana]

Re: Jamaica/Japan Connections

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">More illumative is the fact the reluctance of the Japanese to admit the ..... issue of comfort women still alive </div></div>

Is this any worse than the refusal of the British, Americans and Canadians to apologize and provide reparations for the brutality of slavery or for the way the way Canadians and Americans STILL treat native people. As I said before NO nation has a monopoly on slavery and the Japanese record is not without blemish bu then neither is the American, Canadian, British, or Jamaican. The level of violence in present day Jamaican society is WAY over threshold.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">when it comes down to it all you end up ajudging events by your perceptions of how men perceive you... </div></div>

That's not how I judge events but it is certainly one factor in the equation. I am sure you have heard the expression "Some of my best friends are Black but I would never want my daughter to marry one". Notice the one as if we are a strange species. Attitudes around dating and marrying are an important litmus test of tolerance. It's not the only test but an important one nonetheless. Case in point, the American anti-miscengentation laws which were taken of the books in many states relatively recently. I judge by history too Wahalla.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... when a japanese prime minister goes to lay a wreath at the fallen soldier monument to WWII I look at him with a certain incredulity.... </div></div>

Yes we judge the Japanese prime minister for this and we should. Then why are we silent when the Americans who have committed all kinds of wartime atrocities pay tribute to their war "heroes".




This is of course a critical issue:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> the central flaw at the heart of globalisation..... And until this is addressed Jamaica will be competeing badly in terms of global commodities. A high value commondity should be maximised.... </div></div>

However, why criticize and make the Japanese out to be the bad guys when other nations that are buying one of our precious commodities at bargain basement prices in comparison. In terms of the coffee thing. The Japanese pay a premium price for our coffee....more than TWICE what other nations pay.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If they did this to people of similar ethnicity what would they do to those of us who look different.....????? </div></div>

And we can say exactly the same thing about the Americans and the British but somehow we are willing to overlook their foibles and hold the Japanese to a much higher standard of accountability. Now why is that?

[Wahalla]

Re: Jamaica/Japan Connections

I am simply saying this is simply more of the same....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is this any worse than the refusal of the British, Americans and Canadians to apologize and provide reparations for the brutality of slavery or for the way the way Canadians and Americans STILL treat native people. </div></div> it is the same.... Western countries have tacitly acknowledge what they did... The Japanese have not...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I am sure you have heard the expression "Some of my best friends are Black but I would never want my daughter to marry one".</div></div> I actually have not.... But my insitive question is would you want your son to marry the daughter of such a person.....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> However, why criticize and make the Japanese out to be the bad guys when other nations that are buying one of our precious commodities at bargain basement prices in comparison. In terms of the coffee thing. The Japanese pay a premium price for our coffee....more than TWICE what other nations pay.
</div></div> Tropi<span style="color: #FF0000">The Japanese are the bad guys.. </span>They are equal in their banality of evil...Should they not be held up as such ? Is the fact that what they do and ahve done has not impacted directly on Jamaica should we not be made aware of it.... Because other nations are commonly held to be bad do we should not highlight what that the Japanese do and have done the same ?????

As I said the Japanese struck the deal for whaling.....But at the center the Jamaican Coffee board cannot market processed coffee in Japan... Any more that it can market it in Kanada... Once the contract ends will they simply not renew at the more favourable market price ?????. For once the Coffee board took advantage of a poltical expidence to do a deal good for Jamaica.... Should the morality of it not been examined ????

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And we can say exactly the same thing about the Americans and the British but somehow we are willing to overlook their foibles and hold the Japanese to a much higher standard of accountability. Now why is that? </div></div> The discussion is about Japan. If the discussion was a Denmark foibles we would discuss Denmark.... Who is over looking any foibles ... I am actually asking for the same acknowledgement the same accountability.. We are constantly discuss with what the Europenas did.. I am saying what the Japanese did was equally as brutal.. in fact more so considering the small periof of their hegemony.. The Japanese did in Asia what the Spanish did in Jamaica...And it is still a gaping sour in the asian pshye...

Consider a minor matter of Xenophobia.. The Japanese immigration policies are stacked againsts every one, has the questions of citzenship of the chidren of immigrants in Japan been sorted ????? Considering the natural imperative of migration to growing economies what is the % of non-Japanese nationals resident in Japan... Compare that to say Germany ????

The level of interethnic marriage is extremely low.. As low as the Russians... I read this thread with alarm....

[Tropicana]

Re: Jamaica/Japan Connections

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For once the Coffee board took advantage of a poltical expidence to do a deal good for Jamaica.... Should the morality of it not been examined ????
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Okay you lost me here. How was this expedient? We are getting paid more than TWICE what other nations pay for the same commodity. How is that a rip off? (Now the issue of 1st world nations purchasing 3rd world commodities, adding value through processing and manufacturing and then jacking up the price is a relevant but whole other issue.) The bottom line is that the Japanese did not start the commodity market thing...the British did and the Americans and Canadians continued it. At least in the case of coffee, we are MUCH better paid by the Japanese than we are by the British or Americans.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wahalla</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The level of interethnic marriage is extremely low. </div></div>

Not in Canada. In fact there have been a number of articles written about the fact that the Japanese in Canada have one of the highest if not the highest inter-marriage rate of any other group.

Sansei - 3rd Generation

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Japanese Canadians Today

The Government’s dispersal policy after the end of World War II had a dramatic impact on the social and cultural development of Japanese Canadian community. According to Statistics Canada figures in 2001, the following data describes the Japanese Canadian community.

Total population: 85,230
Single ancestry: 53,175
Mixed ancestry: 32,055

Composition of the Japanese Canadian community in Canada:
Single ancestry born in Canada 40.5%
Single ancestry born outside of Canada 22.0%
Mixed ancestry 37.5%

Note: Peoples of mixed ancestry increased from 26% in 1991 to 37.5% in 2001.

Mixed marriages 70%
Intermarriage rate 95%

The percentages of mixed marriages and intermarriage are the highest of all the ethnic groups. These figures reveal the dramatic shift that is taking place in the Japanese Canadian community. The number of Japanese immigrants has remained constant but the number of people with mixed Japanese ancestry has nearly doubled in 10 years. </div></div>

Source


Issei - First Generation - New Immigrants

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The migrant stream of Japan has a decided gender imbalance, as nearly 2/3 of the migrants are women. This research focuses on single women recently immigrated into Canada, called shin-ijuusha women.
Most of them live in the large cities of Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal. They are highly educated and the largest proportion is employed in the arts or the human service professions. Many originally came to Canada as students, but after completion of their degrees, discouraged by the weak prospects of finding fulfilling jobs in Japan, which has the exceptionally high level of patriarchy, stayed on in Canada as permanent residents. Their average age on immigration is approximately 30 years. The majority marry in Canada.
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Source

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Intermarriage is a way of life for most Shin-Ijuusha women. Some women find that the degree of patriarchy in marriage is not significantly less than it would have been in Japan. The rate of divorce among Japanese immigrant women is higher than that among Canadian-born women of Japanese descent. There is a significant network of single mothers, who have serious needs for social services.</div></div>

Actually this thread is not about Japansese foibles:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The discussion is about Japan. If the discussion was a Denmark foibles we would discuss Denmark....
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It is about Jamaica/Japan connections and its intent is positive.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Who is over looking any foibles ... I am actually asking for the same acknowledgement the same accountability.. </div></div>

No one has said that Japan should not be accountable for the blemishes on their track record. I said that earlier more than once. However, that isn't the focus of this particular thread.
Certainly it would make a very interesting thread on it's own and would likely yield pages of fruitful discussion.

Now the ambivalence of other Asian countries towards Japan would also make an interesting thread on it's own. In fact that is why I have now started one.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The Japanese did in Asia what the Spanish did in Jamaica...And it is still a gaping sour in the asian pshye...
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See new thread in International section for response to your other comments that are broader than the Jamaican/Japan focus of this thread.

[Tropicana]

Re: Jamaica/Japan Connections

See new thread in international section. Many issues here that warrant fuller exploration on their own.

Spinoff Thread: Asian Ambivalence Towards Japanese Culture and Technology

[Wahalla]

Re: Jamaica/Japan Connections

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Originally Posted By: Wahalla
The level of interethnic marriage is extremely low.


Not in Canada. In fact there have been a number of articles written about the fact that the Japanese in Canada have one of the highest if not the highest inter-marriage rate of any other group. </div></div>

I am discussing Japan not the Japanese Kanadian disapora there is a diference..Immigrants have a different paradigm and the human drive to fornicate competes with the xenophobic tendencies.... Just how many Japanese women marry black Kanadians ???? And how many marry White Kanadians ???? Much like asian women in the UK...

[Tropicana]

Re: Jamaica/Japan Connections

I am ALSO discussing Japanese people. I gave 2 examples sets of...3rd generation Japanese Canadians and recent Japanese immigrants (I divided it into 2 sections.

I don't have any statistics on Japanese men and Black women. Up until relatively recently, we weren't coming into contact with each other that much. All I can say is it isn't the automatic "you're ugly", "you're invisible", rejection, and shunning you get from (most) White guys. Quite the contrary. In the words of an African-American woman I met while I was in Japan. "The Japanese men do find us intriguing."

In terms of Japanese female/White male and Japanese female/Black male, again I don't have statistics but I do see these pairings regularly.

This is all I have in terms of official statistics:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Census of Canada shows a Japanese-Canadian population of 77,130, of whom approximately one third indicate multiple ethnic backgrounds, indicating an intermarriage rate of over 90% in recent decades.
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Source

I dunno, [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/70402-thinking.gif[/img] certainly seems like a heck of a lot more openess to interracial relationships than among White folks.

[Tropicana]

Re: Jamaica/Japan Connections

Here is another interesting project on which Jamaica and Japan are collaborating.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Japanese students learn English through Jamaican culture

PETE SANKEY, National news editor
Saturday, October 18, 2003



HARD AT WORK: These Matsudo Kokusai High School students take their lesson seriously.
YOSHIKAWA, Japan -- While most Jamaican students hear Reggae mostly in their homes, in dancehalls or on the radio, the pulsating and often hypnotoic music that distinguishes Jamaica from the rest of the world, is being used in at least one Japanese high school to teach students English.

The teacher, of course, is Jamaican. And, like his more than 36 colleagues now in Japan teaching English, Garcia Chambers' lectures have a strong Jamaican component.

Chambers is an assistant language teacher, or ATL, at the Matsudo Kokusai High School located in the Chiba Prefecture, just outside the Japanese capital, Tokyo.

The school's principal, Seiju Aihara, told the Observer that the institution was an international high school and was blessed, not only with resources, but with four ALTs, who have been assigned to the facility.

Chambers' creativity has been encouraging more students at the senior high school to study English.

For example, Chambers, who has 14 English Language classes each week, on Wednesday afternoon conducted two sessions using various teaching aids to encourage the Japanese students to participate.

In the first session, he used five clips from the Walt Disney movie Cool Runnings -- based on the true story of the Jamaican bobsled team to the 1988 Winter Olympics.

Students, who all had individual monitors and headsets, were required to fill in missing words on a script given to them while sections of the movie were being shown.

They then were expected to discuss the theme in the movie -- Determination and Accomplishment; Humour; Disappointment; Pride and Joy; and Struggle.

In the second class, with a new set of students, the youngsters were taught words and phrases and were then expected to indicate the important points and read the passage by themselves.

Chambers also uses Reggae music as a teaching aid in his language classes.

He came to Japan last year on the Japan Exchange and Teaching (JET) programme, under which participants are not only required to teach English Language in Japanese schools, but through which Japanese students can learn more about other cultures, including Jamaica's.

A native of the western parish of Trelawny in Jamaica, Chambers credited his success to the years he spent in the Jamaican classroom at Alpha Academy in Kingston, where he taught sociology.

He holds a Masters Degree in Politics from the University of the West Indies, Mona.

"Students want to speak English... and the idea is to get the students at a certain comfort level... and they are having fun," he told the Observer.

He noted, however, that unlike some other ALTs who have to travel to various schools for classes, his situation is more ideal as he only goes to Matsudo. This, he said, allowed him to spend more time with the same students.

His workday starts at 8:15 am and ends at 4:15 pm.

"There are different aspects... listening, speaking, writing and grammar, but more emphasis is placed on oral communication," said Chambers.

On Wednesday, 30 enthusiastic Japanese students, including one boy, stood up in class and confidently recited, in English, a short passage that was taught to them an hour earlier.

Most pronounced the words correctly and were happy to be learning a new language.

Chambers explained that emphasis was also placed on sharing different aspects of the Jamaican culture, which encouraged students to want to learn.

"(In Japan) it is a different world, but it is highly rewarding and fulfilling," he said, noting that boredom can seep in so he has to come up with new ideas to make the classes interesting.

The students spoke highly of Chambers and the way he conducted his classes.

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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The JET programme is now in its 17th year, but Jamaica was only invited in 2000 to start sending participants.

Thirty-nine have joined the programme to date, including 16 who came to Japan earlier this year, according to Inoue.

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Source

[Tropicana]

Re: Jamaica/Japan Connections

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jamaica and Japan tackle chronic lifestyle diseases

Observer Reporter
Saturday, February 22, 2003



JAMAICA and Japan this week began exploring the possibility of collaborating on a number of joint projects aimed at reducing chronic lifestyle diseases, which local health officials say account for more than half the deaths here.

"Over 50 per cent of death and illness in the Jamaican population is attributable to chronic lifestyle diseases such as stroke, diabetes, obesity and cancers," said Health Minister John Junor.

He also noted that depression accounts for a significant percentage of illness (about 22 per cent) and aggravates the morbidity associated with the other chronic disease.

"HIV/AIDS has emerged as the most recent health threat and is at epidemic proportions. Injuries and deaths due to motor vehicle accidents and violence have also had major impact on the population," the minister added.

In a bid to reduce these figures, Jamaica and Japan have, over the last couple of days, been sharing the latest research carried out in both countries at a joint conference hosted by the Southern Regional Health Authority (SRHA) and the Japan International Co-operation Agency (JICA) at the Jamaica Pegasus Hotel in Kingston.

"The risks to health -- high blood pressure, excessive consumption of alcohol, physical inactivity, tobacco use, obesity -- are now major threats worldwide and cause much of the disease burden," Junor told the conference.

Junor, who gave the opening address at the conference, argued further that the prevention of chronic lifestyle-related illnesses was a priority of the Jamaican Government and many other Governments around the world such as Japan.

Junor thanked the Japanese Government for the help they had already given Jamaica through the 'Strengthening of health care in the Southern region project', which began in July 1998 and is scheduled to end on May 31, 2003.

Under that project, the Government of Japan sent health experts to work in the Southern Regional division while also helping in the training of 18 Jamaican health- care workers in Japan. The Southern region also received two mobile clinics, medical supplies and equipment as part of a disease prevention model aimed at preventing chronic lifestyle diseases.

In turn, Japanese ambassador, Isao Otsuka, said that he hoped the information gained from the five-year project would be used islandwide.

"We are promoting the concept of health for all and the Japanese government's commitment to that is unwavering. I hope that the knowledge gained from the project will not be restricted to the Southern Region," said Otsuka, who also spoke at the opening ceremony.

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