Women Of The Bible (WOTB) - Vashti

[Diplomat]

She isn't talked about a lot but she does interest me. She was queen before Esther, and her story is recorded in Esther 1 and 2.

Chapter 1
3  In the third year of his reign, he made a feast unto all his princes and his servants; the power of Persia and Media, the nobles and princes of the provinces, being before him:
4  When he shewed the riches of his glorious kingdom and the honour of his excellent majesty many days, even an hundred and fourscore days.
5  And when these days were expired, the king made a feast unto all the people that were present in Shushan the palace, both unto great and small, seven days, in the court of the garden of the king's palace;
6  Where were white, green, and blue, hangings, fastened with cords of fine linen and purple to silver rings and pillars of marble: the beds were of gold and silver, upon a pavement of red, and blue, and white, and black, marble.
7  And they gave them drink in vessels of gold, (the vessels being diverse one from another,) and royal wine in abundance, according to the state of the king.
8  And the drinking was according to the law; none did compel: for so the king had appointed to all the officers of his house, that they should do according to every man's pleasure.
9  Also Vashti the queen made a feast for the women in the royal house which belonged to king Ahasuerus.
10  ¶On the seventh day, when the heart of the king was merry with wine, he commanded Mehuman, Biztha, Harbona, Bigtha, and Abagtha, Zethar, and Carcas, the seven chamberlains that served in the presence of Ahasuerus the king,
11  To bring Vashti the queen before the king with the crown royal, to shew the people and the princes her beauty: for she was fair to look on.
12  But the queen Vashti refused to come at the king's commandment by his chamberlains: therefore was the king very wroth, and his anger burned in him.
13  Then the king said to the wise men, which knew the times, (for so was the king's manner toward all that knew law and judgment:
14  And the next unto him was Carshena, Shethar, Admatha, Tarshish, Meres, Marsena, and Memucan, the seven princes of Persia and Media, which saw the king's face, and which sat the first in the kingdom
15  What shall we do unto the queen Vashti according to law, because she hath not performed the commandment of the king Ahasuerus by the chamberlains?
16  And Memucan answered before the king and the princes, Vashti the queen hath not done wrong to the king only, but also to all the princes, and to all the people that are in all the provinces of the king Ahasuerus.
17  For this deed of the queen shall come abroad unto all women, so that they shall despise their husbands in their eyes, when it shall be reported, The king Ahasuerus commanded Vashti the queen to be brought in before him, but she came not.
18  Likewise shall the ladies of Persia and Media say this day unto all the king's princes, which have heard of the deed of the queen. Thus shall there arise too much contempt and wrath.
19  If it please the king, let there go a royal commandment from him, and let it be written among the laws of the Persians and the Medes, that it be not altered, That Vashti come no more before king Ahasuerus; and let the king give her royal estate unto another that is better than she.
20  And when the king's decree which he shall make shall be published throughout all his empire, (for it is great,) all the wives shall give to their husbands honour, both to great and small.
21  And the saying pleased the king and the princes; and the king did according to the word of Memucan:
22  For he sent letters into all the king's provinces, into every province according to the writing thereof, and to every people after their language, that every man should bear rule in his own house, and that it should be published according to the language of every people.

Chapter 2
1 After these things, when the wrath of king Ahasuerus was appeased, he remembered Vashti, and what she had done, and what was decreed against her.
2  Then said the king's servants that ministered unto him, Let there be fair young virgins sought for the king:
3  And let the king appoint officers in all the provinces of his kingdom, that they may gather together all the fair young virgins unto Shushan the palace, to the house of the women, unto the custody of Hege the king's chamberlain, keeper of the women; and let their things for purification be given them:
4  And let the maiden which pleaseth the king be queen instead of Vashti. And the thing pleased the king; and he did so.
17 And the king loved Esther above all the women, and she obtained grace and favour in his sight more than all the virgins; so that he set the royal crown upon her head, and made her queen instead of Vashti.

[i]Edited to add:[//i]

Here's yet another perspective for you that suggests it was the particular feast itself that may have influenced Vashti's thinking.

"Vashti's offense and the king's response. The commentators raise numerous questions regarding this event. Disobeying a king was considered the most serious offense and was always punished by death. Indeed, later in the story even Queen Esther attests that were she to appear before the king uninvited she would be put to death. Certainly Vashti who had defied the king's explicit command deserved the death penalty. What room was there for leniency?

Furthermore, Memuchan's argument that this would influence the women of the kingdom seems insignificant in the face of Vashti's act of rebellion.

The answer lies in the Megillah's description of the nature of this feast. Unlike the first feast, which was to show off the king's wealth, this feast was to please the people. Thus no one was forced to drink more than he wished, "for so had the king ordered." Indeed "all the stewards of his household," the bakers, butchers and butlers (Rashi) were to "comply with each man's wish."

Thus Vashti's refusal to appear against her will is less sinful when viewed in the context of that particular feast. (Likkutei Sichot, vol. 36)

Source: Virtual Purim

[Queen]

Re: Women Of The Bible (WOTB) - Vashti

Queen Vashti, the one who was stripped of her crown because of her refusal to enter the king's presence. tsk, tsk, tsk... I'll have to go re-fresh my memory on the details then will be back with feedback.

[Diplomat]

Re: Women Of The Bible (WOTB) - Vashti

Stubborn? Nope...refresh the brain cells and come again [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[mountaingal]

Re: Women Of The Bible (WOTB) - Vashti

Hello, CEW. Good idea this series - I find it quite informative. Couple requests please?
1) You could find a bible written in more up to date English, rather that this old Jacobean English? I find it hard to follow.

2) Does the bible say anything about Lilith? If so, could I see her story?

About Vashti - she was punished for not coming when the drunken king called her to show her off in front of his drinking buddies? Smart woman. No wonder the king and princes dem get frighten that she will influence dem wife fe no juss run come when dem get call.

[Queen]

Re: Women Of The Bible (WOTB) - Vashti

Originally posted by CEW:
[qb] Stubborn? Nope...refresh the brain cells and come again [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [/qb]

Ugggh,,,, you typed too fast before I had a chance to edit.

[Queen]

Re: Women Of The Bible (WOTB) - Vashti

Here's a little background info I found on her:

Biographical sketch of Queen Vashti

by the editors of Torah from Dixie


Vashti was the daughter of King Belshazzar of Babylon and the great-granddaughter of King Nebuchadnezzar, the man who destroyed the first Temple in Jerusalem. The night her father was murdered (as predicted by the famous "writing on the wall"), there was much bloodshed and looting in the palace. Amidst the confusion, Vashti was unaware of the death of her father and ran to his quarters where she was captured by Darius, the succeeding king. Darius took pity on the young Vashti and gave her to his son Achashveirosh as a wife. When Achashveirosh became king over Persia, he and Vashti ruled over 127 provinces, the entire civilized world.

At a banquet celebrating the Jewish people's demise, described in the first chapter of Megillat Esther, Achashveirosh ordered Vashti to appear at the feast unclothed so that he could show off her beauty to his entire kingdom. In a classic demonstration of the divine midah k'neged midah (measure for measure) justice, Vashti was called to appear before the king naked on Shabbat, a punishment for her tradition of forcing Jewish girls to work before her on Shabbat stripped of their clothing. When she refused his command, Achashveirosh had her beheaded at the advice of his minister Memuchan (identified by one opinion in the Talmud as Haman), abruptly ending her relatively short life. Vashti's execution set the stage for Esther's appointment as queen, ultimately leading to the Jewish people's salvation from Haman's threat of annihilation in the Purim story.

http://www.tfdixie.com/holidays/purim/002.htm

[Diplomat]

Re: Women Of The Bible (WOTB) - Vashti

mountaingal: Glad you are following. Needless to say, feel free to jump is as you see fit.

1) You could find a bible written in more up to date English, rather that this old Jacobean English? I find it hard to follow.

Fair enough. I'll use The Message Translation which is written in today's English.

2) Does the bible say anything about Lilith? If so, could I see her story?

I have not been able to find anything on her. I'll check some other historical sources to see if she is mentioned.

About Vashti - she was punished for not coming when the drunken king called her to show her off in front of his drinking buddies? Smart woman. No wonder the king and princes dem get frighten that she will influence dem wife fe no juss run come when dem get call.

Yep...a rather courageous move. She chose to keep her dignity instead of parading herself to satisfy the guests of the King.

[Diplomat]

Re: Women Of The Bible (WOTB) - Vashti

Queen: Excellent piece. My interest in Vashti was provoked primarily because of her courageous stand. She literally chose death rather than becoming a sexual object, and I consider that even in the 21st Century, women are still faced with some unfair choices. Solomon indeed was right; there is nothing new under the sun.

[Diplomat]

Re: Women Of The Bible (WOTB) - Vashti

Check out the same story from The Message Translation:

Esther 1
1This is the story of something that happened in the time of Xerxes, the Xerxes who ruled from India to Ethiopia--127 provinces in all. 2King Xerxes ruled from his royal throne in the palace complex of Susa. 3In the third year of his reign he gave a banquet for all his officials and ministers. The military brass of Persia and Media were also there, along with the princes and governors of the provinces.
4For six months he put on exhibit the huge wealth of his empire and its stunningly beautiful royal splendors. 5At the conclusion of the exhibit, the king threw a weeklong party for everyone living in Susa, the capital--important and unimportant alike. The party was in the garden courtyard of the king's summer house. 6The courtyard was elaborately decorated with white and blue cotton curtains tied with linen and purple cords to silver rings on marble columns. Silver and gold couches were arranged on a mosaic pavement of porphyry, marble, mother-of-pearl, and colored stones. 7Drinks were served in gold chalices, each chalice one-of-a-kind. The royal wine flowed freely--a generous king!
8The guests could drink as much as they liked--king's orders!-with waiters at their elbows to refill the drinks. 9Meanwhile, Queen Vashti was throwing a separate party for women inside King Xerxes' royal palace.
10On the seventh day of the party, the king, high on the wine, ordered the seven eunuchs who were his personal servants (Mehuman, Biztha, Harbona, Bigtha, Abagtha, Zethar, and Carcas) 11to bring him Queen Vashti resplendent in her royal crown. He wanted to show off her beauty to the guests and officials. She was extremely good-looking.
12But Queen Vashti refused to come, refused the summons delivered by the eunuchs. The king lost his temper. Seething with anger over her insolence, 13the king called in his counselors, all experts in legal matters. It was the king's practice to consult his expert advisors. 14Those closest to him were Carshena, Shethar, Admatha, Tarshish, Meres, Marsena, and Memucan, the seven highest-ranking princes of Persia and Media, the inner circle with access to the king's ear. 15He asked them what legal recourse they had against Queen Vashti for not obeying King Xerxes' summons delivered by the eunuchs.
16Memucan spoke up in the council of the king and princes: "It's not only the king Queen Vashti has insulted, it's all of us, leaders and people alike in every last one of King Xerxes' provinces. 17The word's going to get out: "Did you hear the latest about Queen Vashti? King Xerxes ordered her to be brought before him and she wouldn't do it!' When the women hear it, they'll start treating their husbands with contempt. 18The day the wives of the Persian and Mede officials get wind of the queen's insolence, they'll be out of control. Is that what we want, a country of angry women who don't know their place?
19"So, if the king agrees, let him pronounce a royal ruling and have it recorded in the laws of the Persians and Medes so that it cannot be revoked, that Vashti is permanently banned from King Xerxes' presence. And then let the king give her royal position to a woman who knows her place. 20When the king's ruling becomes public knowledge throughout the kingdom, extensive as it is, every woman, regardless of her social position, will show proper respect to her husband."
21The king and the princes liked this. The king did what Memucan proposed. 22He sent bulletins to every part of the kingdom, to each province in its own script, to each people in their own language: "Every man is master of his own house; whatever he says, goes."

Esther 2
1Later, when King Xerxes' anger had cooled and he was having second thoughts about what Vashti had done and what he had ordered against her, 2the king's young attendants stepped in and got the ball rolling: "Let's begin a search for beautiful young virgins for the king. 3Let the king appoint officials in every province of his kingdom to bring every beautiful young virgin to the palace complex of Susa and to the harem run by Hegai, the king's eunuch who oversees the women; he will put them through their beauty treatments. 4Then let the girl who best pleases the king be made queen in place of Vashti."
The king liked this advice and took it.
17The king fell in love with Esther far more than with any of his other women or any of the other virgins--he was totally smitten by her. He placed a royal crown on her head and made her queen in place of Vashti.

I found v.17 of Chapter 1 to be so reflective of some of my own gender: "The word's going to get out: "Did you hear the latest about Queen Vashti? King Xerxes ordered her to be brought before him and she wouldn't do it!' When the women hear it, they'll start treating their husbands with contempt." Nothing new under the sun at all [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Queen]

Re: Women Of The Bible (WOTB) - Vashti

18The day the wives of the Persian and Mede officials get wind of the queen's insolence, they'll be out of control. Is that what we want, a country of angry women who don't know their place?
19"So, if the king agrees, let him pronounce a royal ruling and have it recorded in the laws of the Persians and Medes so that it cannot be revoked, that Vashti is permanently banned from King Xerxes' presence. And then let the king give her royal position to a woman who knows her place.

[img]/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

[Diplomat]

Re: Women Of The Bible (WOTB) - Vashti

Originally posted by Queen:
[qb]

18The day the wives of the Persian and Mede officials get wind of the queen's insolence, they'll be out of control. Is that what we want, a country of angry women who don't know their place?
19"So, if the king agrees, let him pronounce a royal ruling and have it recorded in the laws of the Persians and Medes so that it cannot be revoked, that Vashti is permanently banned from King Xerxes' presence. And then let the king give her royal position to a woman who knows her place.

[img]/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [/qb]

Male chauvinism at its finest [img]/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

[mountaingal]

Re: Women Of The Bible (WOTB) - Vashti

thanks for the story, CEW. not happy with the way things ended for Vashti, but you're right, she seems to be a good example of a woman asserting her dignity. too bad this also throws into relief the worse part of male attitudes towards women - attitudes that prevail even today, sadly.

[Queen]

Re: Women Of The Bible (WOTB) - Vashti

CEW: Exactly, and such chauvinism, still goes on today, more dominant in some African countries (I'm aware of a few cases) but still prevalent here in the U.S. Well, we wouldn't hear of Vashti's standing up for herself too much because of course "we don't want word to get out, other women may follow suit." sad. What I do hear is that Vashti, was too busy tending to her ladies and got sassy and wouldn't go to the king as requested, thus causing her to be booted out as Queen. I hardly ever hear the portion of her, being requested for display in the meat market. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[Diplomat]

Re: Women Of The Bible (WOTB) - Vashti

Here's another perspective:

"As we take a final look at submission, we learn about submission to authority as we remember Queen Vashti. It is easy to read this story of Queen Vashti, and overlook the lesson in the debate of right and wrong. We could contemplate her reasons for her lack of submission such as she was too busy with her own feast, which she was holding, that she didn't want to appear to a brood of drunken men, or that she may have been in fact asserting her will, or angry with her husband. The fact is we don't have enough information to determine the heart of Vashti, but we do have a wonderful example of failure to submit and the consequences thereof, thus, that will be our focus. Romans 13:1-2 teaches us "Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves." While Vashti failed to submit to her husband, there was even a greater malady at hand, which was that she failed to submit to what in these times was the ultimate worldly authority: THE KING. For one to disobey a king's order, was unthinkable, and often cost one's life. Vashti was merely stripped of her position. While she lost everything she knew, it could have been far worse. She could have lost her head. Her disregard for the law of the land, cost her life as she knew it, as it was taken and given to another."

Source: Queen Vashti & Authority.

Needless to say, I think something is lost in this point of view. The author qualifies his position by continuing:

"Now, I know such teaching of God's word always brings questions for we also have some sound biblical examples of defying authority. Therefore, we find the lesson is not exactly blind obedience, but rather how to gather the understanding of when, where, and what is to be our guidance for submission. We have to be careful when we deal with understanding of defying authority, because our human nature is such that we will convince ourselves of our rights and justify that disobedience which is unjust. We must not base our decisions upon our feelings. In order to understand authority, we must determine our ultimate authority, which is GOD's Word. Notice I did not say God, but God's word, for although He speaks to us in our spirit, He speaks what is clarified and solidified by His written word. Therefore, if we feel for certain God is leading us to take an action, especially concerning authority, or disobedience to the laws of the land, then we must seek His word to verify. This gives us guard against strictly acting out our feelings, which should never take precedence over His written word. When our feelings and God's word collide and differ, we can rest assured that our deceitful heart is seeking to lead us astray."

It would seem he is suggesting that Vashti should have submitted, no matter how debasing the King's request was.

[Diplomat]

Re: Women Of The Bible (WOTB) - Vashti

Originally posted by Queen:

Well, we wouldn't hear of Vashti's standing up for herself too much because of course "we don't want word to get out, other women may follow suit." sad. What I do hear is that Vashti, was too busy tending to her ladies and got sassy and wouldn't go to the king as requested, thus causing her to be booted out as Queen. I hardly ever hear the portion of her, being requested for display in the meat market. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

That is what is called putting a spin on things. Most men telling Vashti's story would have conveniently "forgot" to mention the King's request. As yourself and mountaingal pointed out, the attitude still prevails even today, and that is really unfortunate. Today, women taking the stand for dignity are not beheaded but fired, harrassed, discriminated against, and so it continues. This story is a lot sadder than I first thought.

An after-thought: interestingly, without the story of Vashti, there would have been no story of Esther.