Divorce & Remarriage

[msgoody2shoes]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by Compry:
[qb] MsGoody, nothing is about me or up to me. Marriage is not something that is at the top of my list. If it was, I would have been married already as the requests do come in.

[MG2S] Well, that does make a difference. If it is not a top priority, I can understand. To each his own, I guess.

Let me try and explain something to you...when I pray I ask God to lead my life. I also ask that His will be done in my life therefore if it is God's will for me to marry someone and I know after praying and fasting about it, then I will do so. I made the mistake of not asking that His will be done the first time I got married.

[MG2S] Point taken again. As for me and most singles that I know, I go to God with my requests. I presented my desire to marry and then I pray that God will present the man. We have not because we ask not. I am asking Him to send me who He has for me and present the time. If you feel like God has to present the desire to you, it's what you feel. I have no qualms with it.

There's a huge pothole on a side street that I sometimes take in the mornings. The first time I took that street, my car fell in that hole and I thought for sure Alley was damaged. Each time I take that street since then, I swerve to avoid that hole. Once bitten, twice stupid.

[MG2S] Okay.

Have a good night.

Blessings always. [/qb]

Good night to you as well!
MG2S

[msgoody2shoes]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by Mutty - The return:
[qb] Hmm...is there circular reasoning in this?


I got married the first time and it did not work out sooooooooooooo it must have not been God's will, but if it did work out then it must have been God's will. Which leads to yet another one of my thought provoking questions which usually ends up with me talking to myself. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] To the folks who do not consult God and turn out to have a rather pleasurable marriage, who's blessing created their good fortune? The marriage fairy? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [/qb]

Ecclesiastes 9:11
...TIME AND CHANCE HAPPENETH TO THEM ALL. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Mutty]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by Compry:
[qb]

Originally posted by Mutty - The return:
[qb] Hmm...is there circular reasoning in this?


I got married the first time and it did not work out sooooooooooooo it must have not been God's will, but if it did work out then it must have been God's will. Which leads to yet another one of my thought provoking questions which usually ends up with me talking to myself. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] To the folks who do not consult God and turn out to have a rather pleasurable marriage, who's blessing created their good fortune? The marriage fairy? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [/qb]

Not the same Mutty. A believer has to do it differently...but yuh dun know dat aready. [/qb]

Do what differently? Don't know if you've been keeping score but their are just as much jerks and female dogs in the church as there are outside. Christians might think their potential spouses are on some higher plane of life that labels them God picked, but inthe final analysis, they are flawed humans with idotic tendencies just like the ones outside the church. Will Smith nor Jada Pinkett profess Christianity last timeI checked, but they probably have a far better marriage than Reverend Richman and his wife.

Personally I jsut think it gives some Christians something to think they're doing by claiming they are 'waiting on God' or 'praying to God' for the right person. Frankly, they have and should do the same work anybody should do before engaging in marriage. And like with kids, the best upbringing does NOT guarantee positive results, but by doing your part it does give you and them a chance to turn out well.

I need to go to sleep because I have no idea what the heck I just said.

[Green_Biscuit]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by Mutty - The return:
I need to go to sleep because I have no idea what the heck I just said. [/QB]

Neither do I....glad it is not just me [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] ....I am retiring, as well. Good night. Peace and blessings.

[Ivory]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by Compry:
[qb]

Originally posted by msgoody2shoes:
[qb] Compry, do you hope to or intend to remarry again some day? [/qb]

My first marriage was rotten from day one and while I would love to know it is like to be in a loving marital relationship, it's not up to me. [/qb]

Hmmm...but you have wonderful role models in your parents marriage Compry! So you do have an idea as to what it is like and about. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Guest]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by Ivory:
[qb]Hmmm...but you have wonderful role models in your parents marriage Compry! So you do have an idea as to what it is like and about. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [/qb]

Yeah you're right. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I'll live vicariously through them.

[Diplomat]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by msgoody2shoes:

Originally posted by CEW:
Actually, if we discard our biases and look at the scriptures - and there are a few - as they are written, the Bible does speak very clearly on the issue. I think we are more steeped in tradition than we are guided by scriptures on this one.

Traditions in what manner? I also think the scriptures speak clearly on the issue of divorce/remarriage. So where, pray tell, do traditions come in?

I'm actually contemplating a follow-up thread to look at what Jesus really said on the issue of divorce and remarriage. Just one thought though: there is nowhere in scriptures where He said or implied that the divorced believer was not permitted to remarry. Yes, it was not a part of God's original plan, and any divorce outside of the areas scripturally defined resulted in adultery, but that is not a perpetual state and once forgiven, is no longer an issue. The story of the Woman at the well, and her five husbands, as acknowledged by Jesus Himself, is worth looking into. One of the basic principles of Biblical interpretation is that something cannot be meant to say something today, that it did not mean to the original hearers, and that is where we miss it a lot of times.

[msgoody2shoes]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by CEW:
[qb]

Originally posted by msgoody2shoes:

Originally posted by CEW:
Actually, if we discard our biases and look at the scriptures - and there are a few - as they are written, the Bible does speak very clearly on the issue. I think we are more steeped in tradition than we are guided by scriptures on this one.

Traditions in what manner? I also think the scriptures speak clearly on the issue of divorce/remarriage. So where, pray tell, do traditions come in?

I'm actually contemplating a follow-up thread to look at what Jesus really said on the issue of divorce and remarriage. Just one thought though: there is nowhere in scriptures where He said or implied that the divorced believer was not permitted to remarry. Yes, it was not a part of God's original plan, and any divorce outside of the areas scripturally defined resulted in adultery, but that is not a perpetual state and once forgiven, is no longer an issue. The story of the Woman at the well, and her five husbands, as acknowledged by Jesus Himself, is worth looking into. One of the basic principles of Biblical interpretation is that something cannot be meant to say something today, that it did not mean to the original hearers, and that is where we miss it a lot of times. [/qb]

Now you've confused me. In your earlier posts, you seemed to have taken the position that divorce and remarriage was not permissible by God. Now, you say that He never said a divorced believer could not remarry. So what do you actually believe CEW? Is it lawful for anyone to divorce and remarry? Just for believers? Unbelievers? What? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[acceptedtoday]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by CEW:
[qb]

Originally posted by Mutty - The return:
So how come the woman could up and marry another person after her husband kicked her out the door, but in the New Testament, the same thing is called adultery? The biblical God talks out of both sides of his testaments! Pure comedy.

I have to believe you know better than this! Anyone who has taken any time to study the issue under both covenants understand that in the OT, Deut. 24:1-4, God basically 'allowed' or 'permitted' divorce and remarriage. Why? Because in a society and in a time where a woman was a man's possession, and where she could be put away for just about any reason at all, the women needed to be protected. A woman could not initiate divorce, she had no voice. Moses permitted the man to put away his wife for "some uncleaness", and God basically allowed her to become another man's wife providing she had a certificate of divorce. This does not mean that God approves of divorce, which Moses allowed because of the hardness of the individual heart. God clearly states He hates divorce (Malachi 2:16) so without even trying to be cute, we - you included - know what God's position is.

Bear in mind that in the OT, adultery was punishable by death (stoning), so we know that was not the grounds on which Moses allowed divorce.

Astute Bible scholars and critics would also know that in Jesus' day, there were two schools of thought as it relates to the issue of divorce. Jewish Rabbis disagreed on the meaning of "some uncleanness" and were divided into two camps, the Sahammai and Hillel. Followers of Rabbi Shammai limited the term to mean some form of sexual impropriety, while followers of Rabbi Hillel gave it unlimited range, so much so that the wife burning food was a legitimate basis for the husband to 'file' for a divorce.

When Jesus was asked about His thoughts on divorce (Matt 19:1-10), notice the question: "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason? The question went back to the Hillel school of thought, and was bascially a trick question. Jesus used the opportunity to state God's original design for marriage.

In as much as I understand your need to make a point, the fact is there is nothing contradictory about the subject in both covenants.

It is also quite interesting that it is her FORMER husband who cannottake her back because it is an abomination. Go figure. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img]

In as much as Bible scholars have different opinions on that portion of the text, perhaps there is an important truth and it is that a husband should think twice before divorcing his wife and marrying another woman [img]/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [/qb]

CEW,

I understand your correction of Mutty's rebuttal that the New and Old testament take differing positions on divorce.
However to blame it on Moses is kinda shifty. God approved Moses laws, Moses sought consel from God on all the laws written.
Jesus in answering the Pharisees was not placing the change on Moses, he said it was an acknowledgement of the situation in the "hearts" of the people that Moses petitioned God's grace, for adherence.

Maybe had he not the whole tribe of Isrealites may have stoned each other to death [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] .

There was grace under the law, God allowed a man to kill a bullock so that the law would not kill the man.

The bullock committed no sin the man did.

Did the animal die so that the man may live?

No way. No animal sacrifice could wash away sin.

The reason for killing the animal was to teach the lesson that sin cost something.
The cost of a spotless bullock was similar to the cost of a sedan today. It took many months to find a spotless bullock, it was a rare find.

So to purchase one, the law of demand and supply placed an antique price on that animal.

How many bulls you had to give up for gleeaning the land clean to prevent the poor from a meal?

Three bulls and four rams in exchange for a spotless bullock?

Sin cost something, this was the issue of animal sacrifice.

So the issue of divorce was much the same. In setting free a wife the man lost the bride price, but he would part with it - the cost- for the sake of marrying another which cost'd him another bride price.

That he was willing to suffer this loss showed how far he would go to rid himself of her, he would have made the life of that woman living hell.
Divorce prevented this abuse, the cry of the abused women moved God to permit in grace, Moses, to issue bills of divorce.

Grace is now through Jesus Christ and Paul argued "loosed" from the position of this same grace.

"If the unbelieving spouse depart the christian is no longer under bondage".

What's true in both Law and Grace is Grace. God was and is, always a God of grace.

[Guest]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

I had a conversation with a friend who is a minister early today about this subject and he mentioned something that I never thought about.

For those who are divorced and have asked God for forgiveness, have you ask forgiveness for the marriage?

[msgoody2shoes]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by Compry:
[qb] I had a conversation with a friend who is a minister early today about this subject and he mentioned something that I never thought about.

For those who are divorced and have asked God for forgiveness, have you ask forgiveness for the marriage? [/qb]

Yes.

[Diplomat]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by Compry:
I had a conversation with a friend who is a minister early today about this subject and he mentioned something that I never thought about.

For those who are divorced and have asked God for forgiveness, have you ask forgiveness for the marriage?

Mmmm...Did he elaborate? I am hard pressed to figure out why he would ask such a question seeing the initial marriage was not a "sin" which need(ed) to be forgiven.

[msgoody2shoes]

Re: Divorce & Remarriage

Originally posted by CEW:
[qb]

Originally posted by Compry:
I had a conversation with a friend who is a minister early today about this subject and he mentioned something that I never thought about.

For those who are divorced and have asked God for forgiveness, have you ask forgiveness for the marriage?

Mmmm...Did he elaborate? I am hard pressed to figure out why he would ask such a question seeing the initial marriage was not a "sin" which need(ed) to be forgiven. [/qb]

CEW, I don't know his reasoning for his comment, but I do know that sometimes we jump the gun and get into marriages that God did not intend for us to be in. We grow weary and do not wait on Him for our true mate. Then sometimes, we may marry someone without doing our research and finding out if the person is actually available for us. I know a woman who married a man who was already married and he never told her his first marriage was not dissolved. In my case, I married a divorcee unawares.

So, I did ask God for forgiveness. I would assume people in the other situations I mentioned would probably feel the need to seek forgiveness. God hates divorce, but He allows it. So that in itself, would cause a believer to seek forgiveness. Marriage itself, is not a sin. It's the way that we marry.