Reparations: Is it appropriate?

[ohliz]

Re: Reparations: Is it appropriate?

Originally posted by BlackStar:
Did the same questions arise for other cases of reparations? Jews? Armenians? Japanese?

This is the first time I have heard that the US government paid reparations to those people. I suppose I have some research to do. Any good links you have offhand? I will google in the meantime.

It is now time to pay up. For over 200 years black people worked for F - R - E - E and at great cost to their humanity, their histories, their languages, their cultures. Free labor for 200 years, that adds up to a lot of wealth being created.

That is true. But will making a payment of $_____ fix things for future generations? Will it remove racism from US society?

Why is so little of that wealth in black people's pockets while the US boasts of being the richest nation on the planet? Surely some of the money spent to rebuild Iraq would have been spent on America's own citizens.

I agree.

Are people saying that the US doesn't have enough money to recognize a debt of that magnitude? That's quite an admission if there ever was one...

Don't know what "people" are saying but I am not saying that.

And because black people aren't the only ones, Native Americans should also get reparations for genocide and being robbed of their land and respective cultures.

Do you think they'd rather have their land back? I'll ask in that case also, is a check going to fix what's wrong?

[ohliz]

Re: Reparations: Is it appropriate?

Originally posted by BlackStar:
[qb]

Originally posted by ohliz:
[qb]I said I don't think a one time payment of cash is going to change anything an d in fact it may make things owrth as some would see that as enough, right there, and no further action needs to be taken.[/qb]

A single cash payment is not the only form that reparations can take. [/qb]

OK. What about a series of payments? Over time, for X number of generations?

What form have these other reparations the US has made taken? (still googling)

[Guest]

Re: Reparations: Is it appropriate?

Originally posted by ohliz:
[qb] That is true. But will making a payment of $_____ fix things for future generations? Will it remove racism from US society?[/qb]

Americans value what they pay for.

The US paid reparations to the Japanese for their internment during WWII.

Jews received reparations from Germany (Switzerland too, I think) - as it's sometimes difficult to identify 6 million people and their descendants, funds have been set up and various organizations are in charge of the distribution in various forms. The US has recently admitted to profiting from stolen Jewish wealth, but has refused to pay reparations.

Also look into the Tulsa riots of 1921 and the Rosewood, Florida massacre.

I'm not ignoring your other questions, but I have to go now.

[ohliz]

Re: Reparations: Is it appropriate?

OK, we can continue later.

I'm not sure about any case for the US paying reparations to Jews being that the US liberated the Jews from the camps after WW2 and were in fact fighting a war against the people that put them there.

The govt's current support for Israel maight be seen as a reparation in any case.

Do you think of Affirmative Action as a form of reparation? Or only cash?

[barosa]

Re: Reparations: Is it appropriate?

Originally posted by Quodlibet:

[ERASED BY MOD]

Quodlibet, I've just noticed that you have erased three postings from the topic. the first by me, the next by lonrwolf and the third by BlackStar... I am aware of your right to remove certain posts that may contravene board rules. My only problem lies with you "erasing" them without a statement saying, why the actions were neccessary... I can only hope you have copied and stored those posts to be able to re-post them, explaining your reasons. I can't speak for the others, but I do need to know... Thanks for your help.

-------------------
We shall see but a little way if we require to understand what we see : Henry David Thoreau

[ohliz]

Re: Reparations: Is it appropriate?

double

[ohliz]

Re: Reparations: Is it appropriate?

I'm also seeing that the US reparations to the Japanese were only to survivors - not their children or grandchildren unless the internee was alive in 1988 when the law was enacted. Is that right?

If you have a better site for reading on the black reparations issue please let me know...this is the first one I found:

http://academic.udayton.edu/race/02rights/repara00.htm

[BakYaSoh]

Re: Reparations: Is it appropriate?

Originally posted by ohliz:
[qb] OK, we can continue later.

I'm not sure about any case for the US paying reparations to Jews being that the US liberated the Jews from the camps after WW2 and were in fact fighting a war against the people that put them there.

The govt's current support for Israel maight be seen as a reparation in any case.

Do you think of Affirmative Action as a form of reparation? Or only cash? [/qb]

Well, the USA did profit UNDULY from confiscated Jewish wealth, that is a part of America's guilt legacy with WWII.

One cannot ascribe US assistance to Israel as reparations unless the US meant those payments as reparations. It's not the same at all, IMO.

[BakYaSoh]

Re: Reparations: Is it appropriate?

The value of reparations is mostly symbolic. If you are looking for reparations to make a real difference to the lives of African Americans, you have to look to other solutions. Reparations are only of value AFTER the society paying those reparations has acknowledged their guilt for what they did wrong. Reparations are not intended as a way to make up for those wrongs, only as a symbolic gesture expressing the society's wish, not intent, to make up for those wrongs.

[ohliz]

Re: Reparations: Is it appropriate?

Originally posted by BakYaSoh:
Well, the USA did profit UNDULY from confiscated Jewish wealth, that is a part of America's guilt legacy with WWII.

It did? You mean US corporations or the US in general or what?

I know the US didn't jump into WW2 specifically to help Jews, it was more about self defense after Pearl Harbor, but the Jews in the camps certainly did benefit from US involvement.

I'd like to know more about the US profiting from Jewish slave labor if you have anything for me to read.

This has turned out to be a day in which I am rapidly increaisng my knowledge of several topics. Not getting much work done but hey, this is much more interesting......

[BakYaSoh]

Re: Reparations: Is it appropriate?

Well, there's actually a growing amount of documentation of how the US Armed Forces, Government, and corporations profitted off of stolen Jewish wealth.

Many of the Jews were in concentration camps because they were promised US Visas that the US Government never intended to issue (it was a delaying policy of the Roosevelt Administration, despite their knowledge of the death camps). The hope inspired of getting these visas often meant that other visas weren't sought that might have saved their lives. The US also actively silenced holocaust information coming out of Europe, going as far as arresting American Jews for speaking out publicly. The US has a lot to answer for in its war time policies -- the Jews being the least of her victims.

[BakYaSoh]

Re: Reparations: Is it appropriate?

American banks, like Chemical, confiscated Jewish assets. After the war, they claimed that they were ordered to do so by the German government, but that belies the fact that they pursued these confiscations long before the actual laws went into effect, long before they were required to do so.

American insurance companies simply confiscated the proceeds of Jewish policy holders.

Many American companies doing business in Germany and the occupied lands actively profitted from stolen booty and slave labour in the Third Reich (Empire). And though most of these companies were cut off from their American counterparts between 1942 and 45, the parent American companies just accepted the profits, without question, after the war.

Many American industrialists believed in the Nazi ideals and helped fund Germany before the war. They helped make it possible for Hitler to achieve the great political and military successes of his early Chancellery.

[BakYaSoh]

Re: Reparations: Is it appropriate?

Roosevelt was well known in his private circle for being a bit of an antisemite. His administration included many antisemites, like General Marshall.

Truman, who succeeded Roosevelt, was not an antisemite. His former haberdashery partner was a Jew. Truman recognized the State of Israel within hours of its founding. In fact, Israel hadn't even decided what name to call the country until just minutes before Truman signed the recognition -- "Israel" had to be hand written in a blank space. It was Truman that implemented the Marshall Plan and the policy of supporting Israel.

[ohliz]

Re: Reparations: Is it appropriate?

Many of the Jews were in concentration camps because they were promised US Visas that the US Government never intended to issue

I suggest that they were in camps primarily because the Nazis put them there.

However, I found this: http://history.sandiego.edu/gen/st/~imlopez/main.html

...which makes for very interesting reading. I did not know about the anti-immigrant stuff that was going on here before and during the war.

Is that refusal to admit those refugees something that reparations should be paid for?

[ohliz]

Re: Reparations: Is it appropriate?

Originally posted by BakYaSoh:
[qb] American banks, like Chemical, confiscated Jewish assets. After the war, they claimed that they were ordered to do so by the German government, but that belies the fact that they pursued these confiscations long before the actual laws went into effect, long before they were required to do so.

American insurance companies simply confiscated the proceeds of Jewish policy holders.

Many American companies doing business in Germany and the occupied lands actively profitted from stolen booty and slave labour in the Third Reich (Empire). And though most of these companies were cut off from their American counterparts between 1942 and 45, the parent American companies just accepted the profits, without question, after the war.

Many American industrialists believed in the Nazi ideals and helped fund Germany before the war. They helped make it possible for Hitler to achieve the great political and military successes of his early Chancellery. [/qb]

This seems like a good case for those corporations to pay reparations. Or shareholders of those corporations that profited from those policies.

But the US government, ie the current citizens of the US?

From my reading it appears that the corporations were sued for reparations, but never any government entity?