Holy Matrimony

[Diplomat]

Re: Holy Matrimony

Originally posted by Jedi l:

Originally posted by Fledgist:

Originally posted by Jedi l:
In short the difference is

One is bound in heaven and on earth and the other is bound only on the earth.

One is spiritual in import the other is strictly legal.

One is bound by a covenant of love (God is love) the other is bound by a covenant of law.

I got married by a judge. Are you telling me that my wife and I are not bound in love?

You are bound by the law only.

The implication being that Fledgist and his wife are not bound by a covenant of love? This is such an illogical argument, you really should apologize.

[fOrTyLeGz]

Re: Holy Matrimony

My, my. Wildly illuminating!

_

[neutral]

Re: Holy Matrimony

[Guest]

Re: Holy Matrimony

[QUOTE]Originally posted by CEW:
[QB]

Originally posted by Jedi l:
In this instance, my preference was to speak to MG, which I am 'allowed' to do. As for giving you an "acceptable answer", acceptable by whose standards?
Pardon me however I was always of the opinion that you were a Christian, therefore I hold you to higher standards than I do Fledgist. My mistake.

What crock! Because Fledgist is not a Christian, I cannot agree with him on a particular issue? Just when I thought I had heard it all.

{Jedi: (((CEW))) plain and simple you are dodging the point. It is not about agreeing with him it is about what you agree with. For a man studying to become a minister you are way out of line.

Edited to add:
Instead of throwing out the baby with the bath water, you would do well to remember the words of Jesus: "And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light." (Luke 16:8) Should I take it He didn't know what He was talking about?

In otherwords you believe that there is no difference between holy matrimony taking your marriage vows before a minister of God and a civil union taking your marriage vows infront of a judge?

In the first case the union is branded holy and binding in heaven and on earth, in the second it is branded legal and binding on earth. Check it out if you don't know (((CEW))) opinions don't count here. These are statements of facts taht every learned Christian should know. Furthermore the above scripture is saying what? How does it make civil unions holy?

[Guest]

Re: Holy Matrimony

Originally posted by CEW:
[qb]

Originally posted by Jedi l:

Originally posted by Fledgist:

Originally posted by Jedi l:
In short the difference is

One is bound in heaven and on earth and the other is bound only on the earth.

One is spiritual in import the other is strictly legal.

One is bound by a covenant of love (God is love) the other is bound by a covenant of law.

I got married by a judge. Are you telling me that my wife and I are not bound in love?

You are bound by the law only.

The implication being that Fledgist and his wife are not bound by a covenant of love? This is such an illogical argument, you really should apologize. [/qb]

Here is my response to Fledgist:

Fledgist: So you are asserting that the love my wife and I feel for each other does not bind us. Since you do not know us personally, you can have no basis for such a judgment. Once again, you've come up with a lie, and an insulting one at that.


Jedi: Whatever else you may feel binds you and her together is strictly of a personal nature, however whatever that is, was expressed legally before a judge making it a legal bond. What is not Godly is fleshly. The unbeliever lives by the law of the flesh.

Those who express their undying love by uniting in holy matrimony do so in the presence of the congregation of the Church, in the presence of the hosts of heaven and in the presence of God these being sealed until death do they part, which no man dare put assunder. Its a covenant between two people and Almighty God.


Hey have you proven or disproven what I have said yet? Answer for yourself! but obviously you have mounted the wrong horse and you cannot now make any reasonable disclaimer to what I have said, so you are flailing around grabbing for a straw, go ahead man of God disprove what I said! Fledgist doesn't need you to back him up he does fine for himself.

[Guest]

Re: Holy Matrimony

Jedi, take it easy and just drop it. It's starting to get ugly.

[Guest]

Re: Holy Matrimony

Originally posted by Compry:
[qb] Jedi, take it easy and just drop it. It's starting to get ugly. [/qb]

It is only ugly when a "Christian" starts twisting biblical facts to suit his/her opinions, but I stand firm on what the word of God teaches and I will not relent. It doesn't take much to see what is really in the heart of some people.
Apologies to all those Christians who believe differently but the bonds of Holy Matrimony are just that - Holy, Immutable and Eternal and it is bound in Love, not man's love but God's Love, that does not change according to one's opinion or marital status or desire to accomodate one's personal circumstances.

[Guest]

Re: Holy Matrimony

I hate getting into these debates but I do have a question for you (((Jedi))).

If my fiance and I decide to forgo a Church wedding and have an intimate gathering on a beach or under a tree, is it no longer holy? Keep in mind that we are both Christians?

[Guest]

Re: Holy Matrimony

Originally posted by Compry:
[qb] I hate getting into these debates but I do have a question for you (((Jedi))).

If my fiance and I decide to forgo a Church wedding and have an intimate gathering on a beach or under a tree, is it no longer holy? Keep in mind that we are both Christians? [/qb]

C'mon Compry you know that where is not the issure here. Who is officiating is. Is it a minister or is it a judge? that is the question. Are you taking your vows before God or before the state? One is branded Holy Matrimony the other is branded a civil union.

[Guest]

Re: Holy Matrimony

Originally posted by Jedi l:
[qb]C'mon Compry you know that where is not the issure here. Who is officiating is. Is it a minister or is it a judge? that is the question. Are you taking your vows before God or before the state? One is branded Holy Matrimony the other is branded a civil union. [/qb]

Where did the term Holy Matrimony come from?

In any case, I personally don't believe that God really cares who is performing a marriage as long as they can legally do so. It's still honourable to Him. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Bink - the Only]

Re: Holy Matrimony

jedi you have admitted that you have the answer to your question .... so, pray tell (all puns intended), why did you pose your question?

[Bink - the Only]

Re: Holy Matrimony

[accepted77]

Re: Holy Matrimony

Jedi,

You are trying to make a point for Holy matrimony but you do so failing to realise that all marriages are honoured by God.
(ahem, let me clarify, that is all marriages between a man and a woman done in freedom to the mores and laws of the community in which that person lives)

God does have an ideal, one man one woman bonds, but as scripture puts it he winked at polygamy in times past.

Just remember Jesus spoke out against Herold for beheading John the Baptist who was put to death because he spoke against Herold marrying his brothers wife. Herold was not a believer, A Jew yes, but more a politican than a believer.

Yet God held him to the same standards as any marriage. Simarily David's marriage to Bathesheba was recognised by God as legal even though he murdered her husband to get her.

Your premise that marriage is indissoluable is where you err.
Scripture does recognise divorce as a dissolution of marriage, the issue like any other sin is the degree to which this decision is driver by lust or the needs for justice.

Marriage is a contract and a muslim marriage or jumping the broom for that matter, is as valid to God as any solemnised in the grandest cathedral.

The special nature of marriage is a covenant but covents are ended in the Bible and so can the marriage covenant. While the bible sets guidelines for the culmination of the marriage union, and God hates a divorce and certainly the bible does not make a case for divorce the Bible accepts that "hardness of heart" can cause irrepairable damage to a marriage which makes the one flesh twain.

Example, unfaithfullness of a spouse under the law was a death sentence, which allowed for the wronged party to remmary. The bond was broken by stoning. The "one" became a solitary single one.


Under grace and under 'common law' death is no longer a punishment for adultery, by the state that is (often the wronged spouse still will kill the cheater but thats another topic) [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

But the act still breaks the the bond the one becomes twain. Even though the spouse lives.

Your premise is faulty all marriages are contracts before men and God.

Given the right conditions all contracts can be broken.

Disclaimer.... God have declared his case against homosexuality, he labels it an "abomination", no homsexual union no matter the degree of lawful status granted by the state is recognised by God. YES I AM SPEAKING FOR THE MOST HIGH.
One thing God hates more than a divorce he hates an abomination.

[DC]

Re: Holy Matrimony

In my opinion, there is no comparison between two people marrying before a minister or a judge. If you ask me, a minister or a judge merely confirm(publicly) what was legally done.

As a believer, I also believe that marriage was instituted by God and is a covenant between two people. In most cultures, this ‘joining’ is accompanied by a ceremony according to the couple’s law or custom. However, I fail to see where God had given the blue print as to a legitimate form of ceremony that would meet his approval and acceptance.

Now, as far as I understand, the early Church had established the priest as the authorized minister of such a union and this was to emphasize sacred origin of marriage. The problem with this is that they went as far as to state that the individual was not legally joined if a minister/priest did not perform the ceremony. IMO, I think the early Church had eventually missed the point because it became a religious issue. Religion is not necessary to make a marriage acceptable to God.

If that is the case, then Isaac and Rebekah's recorded marriage was not acceptable to God(found in Genesis). They had no ceremony, no minister and no judge.

[accepted77]

Re: Holy Matrimony

D.C

You make a valid point but we are all preists to God in the new creation, New Testament, there is one High Preist Jesus Christ, the old testament "office of preists" died with the levitical law at calvary.

I do understand that this may more be a case of names and titles, eg pastors, elders, preists to some, but I just wanted to make the point aside that the preisthood was changed with the Law.