1 in 25 priests a pedophile!

[ohliz]

Re: 1 in 25 priests a pedophile!

CEW, see the 4-5 studies that I posted earlier. I might have posted them in the other thread? I must be getting old since I don't remember....

[edited to add that they were posted in this thread last night..all bold, page 1, should be easy to find]

They were from child abuse web sites and were titled something like "profile of a child sexual offender".

Here is one of them:

Q: Aren't gay people more likely to sexually abuse children than straight people?

A: No. Adult sexual orientation is irrelevant to the sexual abuse of children. The vast majority of adults who sexually abuse children identify as heterosexual, even those men who sexually abuse boys. Child sexual abuse and homosexuality are linked by a series of odd and unsettling connections in the public mind. Heterosexism - the belief that heterosexuality is the only normal and natural form of sexual expression - tends to reinforce the belief that homosexual people are somehow sexually deviant. Once this belief system is in place, it is just a quick step to thinking that homosexuals might be more likely to sexually abuse children.

The truth is that the sexual abuse of children has little to do with adult sexual preference. Child sexual abuse is more about the expression of sexual power than about the expression of sexual preference for one gender or another. Some sexual offenders have a preference for children of one gender or the other, but this preference is not necessarily reflected in their adult sexual choices.

http://www.generationfive.org/faq.html

[servant]

Re: 1 in 25 priests a pedophile!

Gay priests cited in abuse of boys
By Julia Duin
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
Published February 28, 2004

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Eighty-one percent of sex crimes committed against children by Roman Catholic priests during the past 52 years were homosexual men preying on boys, according to a comprehensive study released yesterday on the church's sex abuse crisis.

The John Jay study was commissioned 20 months ago by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) in response to hundreds of sex-abuse accusations that were made in nearly every U.S. Catholic diocese. It covered the years from 1950 to 2002 and found 10,667 cases of abuse.

The USCCB formed a 12-member review board of Catholic laity to conduct its own investigation. The board report was issued jointly with the John Jay study.

Revelation of the homosexual priest abuse was made at a crowded news conference where Washington lawyer Bob Bennett gave a lengthy summary of the review board's report. Mr. Bennett, a review board member, blamed seminary officials and bishops for not flagging at-risk homosexual seminarians.

There are "many outstanding priests of a homosexual orientation who live chaste, celibate lives," Mr. Bennett said, "but ... more than 80 percent of the abuse at issue was of a homosexual nature." "There's an incredibly incongruity of a man of the cloth engaging in this type of conduct. How did they get into the priesthood?" Seminaries, he said, allowed in "many sexually dysfunctional and psychosexually immature men," and did not prepare clergy to survive "particularly in our oversexualized society."

The review board does not advocate barring homosexuals from the priesthood, he said, but "given the reality that a [seminarian] is entering what is essentially male culture, it is important care be taken in the selection and formation of seminarians so that every priest may honor his commitment to live a chaste and celibate life."

The report itself went further by calling for "a more searching inquiry" of homosexual seminarians. "For those who choose to ordain homosexuals, there appears to be a need for additional scrutiny and perhaps additional or specialized formation to help them with the challenge of priestly celibacy," it said.

The John Jay study was praised as the first of its kind to study sexually abusive practices among a category of the American populace. The priests involved -- 4,392 -- constituted 4 percent of the 109,694 clergy who were working in the Catholic Church from 1950 to 2002.

The largest group of abusers -- more than 40 percent -- were between 30 and 39 years when they first preyed on children. Seven percent of these priests said they themselves had been abused physically, sexually or emotionally as children, and 19 percent had alcohol or drug addictions. Also, 19 percent of the 10,667 children abused by the priests were girls, a reversal of child-abuse statistics in the general population, according to the John Jay study.


Copyright © 2004 News World Communications, Inc. All rights reserved.

[ohliz]

Re: 1 in 25 priests a pedophile!

Eighty-one percent of sex crimes committed against children by Roman Catholic priests during the past 52 years were homosexual men preying on boys, according to a comprehensive study released yesterday on the church's sex abuse crisis.


Servant...how can a priest be classified as homosexual if he isn't even supposed to have sex?

Did they ask the priests if they were gay or straight? What methodology did this study use to determine what the sexual orientation of the priests was???

[ohliz]

Re: 1 in 25 priests a pedophile!

Here is the actual study your article refers to, Servant.

Can you show us the part where it says 81% of the priests were gay? I can't find it.

http://www.usccb.org/nrb/johnjaystudy/

[Trelli]

Re: 1 in 25 priests a pedophile!

I clicked on the link you provided. there is no single article, but a list of articles.

in fact here is the actual article in the washinton times

http://washingtontimes.com/national/20040227-111236-5901r.htm

[ohliz]

Re: 1 in 25 priests a pedophile!

Trelli, the link I provided is not to articles, it's to sections of the John Jay study that the Catholic Church commissioned and to which servant's article refers.

In other words, it's what the news articles are based on.

...the article you linked makes a similar claim about 81% of priests being gay and it shares the same flaw as servant's - it does not explain where this information came from - I cannot find it in the study.

It appears to me that the Washington Times is taking the study and making claims that are not supported therein.

But if you (or servant, or anyone) can find the part of the study that says 81% of abusive priests were gay, I'd love to see it.

[Trelli]

Re: 1 in 25 priests a pedophile!

tell me, what study is quote based on?

Q: Aren't gay people more likely to sexually abuse children than straight people?

A: No. Adult sexual orientation is irrelevant to the sexual abuse of children. The vast majority of adults who sexually abuse children identify as heterosexual, even those men who sexually abuse boys. Child sexual abuse and homosexuality are linked by a series of odd and unsettling connections in the public mind. Heterosexism - the belief that heterosexuality is the only normal and natural form of sexual expression - tends to reinforce the belief that homosexual people are somehow sexually deviant. Once this belief system is in place, it is just a quick step to thinking that homosexuals might be more likely to sexually abuse children.

The truth is that the sexual abuse of children has little to do with adult sexual preference. Child sexual abuse is more about the expression of sexual power than about the expression of sexual preference for one gender or another. Some sexual offenders have a preference for children of one gender or the other, but this preference is not necessarily reflected in their adult sexual choices.

[ohliz]

Re: 1 in 25 priests a pedophile!

You can ask them if they based that FAQ on a study or not.

http://www.generationfive.org/contactUs.html

So you were unable to find the reference to the 81% of priests in the John Jay study?

I get the point you're trying to make, I think...but the article servant (and you) posted is ABOUT the Joh nJay study, it claims to be reporting the results of the study, presumably for those that are too lazy to read the actual study.

I did read the actual study - each link on that page is only a 1-2 page document - and I'm asserting that the article misstates what hte study says.

Generation Five's FAQ does not claim to be reporting on any study.

Can you see the difference?

[Trelli]

Re: 1 in 25 priests a pedophile!

btw you keep saying priests are celibate so they shouldn't be categorised as homosexuals...

take a look at this:

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/week531/feature.html

BOB ABERNETHY, anchor: The scandals in the Catholic church have prompted wide-ranging questions about sexual orientation and practice, among them issues of homosexuality. Experts insist that pedophilia -- sexual attraction to children -- has no connection to homosexuality. Still, the crisis has renewed attention to the issue of gays in the priesthood -- how many there are, what the consequences may be, and whether the Church should be concerned. Judy Valente reports.

JUDY VALENTE: This priest is homosexual.

PRIEST "X": We're certainly aware that there are lots of priests who are gay.

VALENTE: The Catholic Church teaches that it is not a sin to have a homosexual orientation. But the Church also says the proper role of sexuality is between a man and a woman, and calls homosexuality "intrinsically disordered." This has alienated many gay Catholics.

PRIEST "X": It's a very charged subject in the Church right now.

VALENTE: And as for homosexual acts, the Church calls them "gravely sinful." Although this gay priest is celibate -- as all priests are required to be -- he does not want to be identified.

PRIEST "X": I don't want to stand before a congregation and them think of me as a gay person, precluding what I'm trying to do there, precluding what I'm trying to do ministerially there.

VALENTE: No one has precise figures on the number or percentage of priests who are homosexual. There are only estimates. Sexuality, or sexual preferences, are not subjects easily studied in a scientific survey. But there are many anecdotes and impressions.

Rich Rasi is a gay man who once served as a priest in the Boston area. He is no longer an active priest but recently officiated at a worship service for gay and lesbian Catholics.

Mr. RICH RASI: A lot of the recent literature has said, you know, straight priests are leaving the priesthood because there are so many gay people there's not a place for them.

VALENTE: Chris Pett, who is also gay, was an active priest in Illinois for 12 years.

Mr. CHRIS PETT: There is absolutely a predominance of gay men who are priests, in my experience.

VALENTE: Richard Sipe, a psychotherapist, has studied celibacy and sexuality in the priesthood for 40 years. Now married, Sipe had been a Benedictine monk for 18 years. He taught in three different seminaries. Sipe estimates that 30 percent of the priesthood is homosexually oriented.

RICHARD SIPE: And by the way, when I say that these men are homosexually oriented, I'm not throwing rocks at them, any more than if I would say they're heterosexually oriented. Nor am I implying that they aren't faithful to their vows and practicing celibacy.

VALENTE: Last year, in a widely discussed book, Father Donald Cozzens, then rector of the Cleveland Seminary, wrote of the "growing perception that the priesthood is or is becoming a gay profession."

Jerome Listecki, auxiliary bishop of Chicago, acknowledges that the priesthood may have a slightly disproportionate number of gay men -- perhaps more than 10 percent -- but he rejects studies, cited by Cozzens, that [say] as many as 50 percent of seminarians are homosexual.

Bishop JEROME LISTECKI: The only thing I can tell you is that is not my experience. That might be Cozzens's experience. And even if it's Cozzens's experience, if that's his perception, we should deal with it. We should deal with it, because it does cast a certain pall on the priesthood.

VALENTE: Why do you think gay men would be attracted to the priesthood?

Bishop LISTECKI: I believe it's the caring and nurturing nature of the priesthood, which is part of the nature of ministry.

VALENTE: Father Richard McBrien is a theologian at the University of Notre Dame. He says that while gay men may have a sincere vocation to the priesthood, they may be drawn to it for other reasons as well.

Father RICHARD MCBRIEN: Let's be frank about it. I mean, gay people are persecuted in this society. They're hounded. They're looking for respect. They're looking for a vocation or an occupation or a profession that will give them a kind of immediate respect. And since it's a celibate profession, people will not automatically say, "Ah, he's not married." Doesn't make any difference. None of us are married.

VALENTE: The priesthood has lost heterosexual men, not only because thousands have left to get married but also, apparently, because of the current climate in some seminaries.

Father MCBRIEN: Some of them who feel they have a genuine vocation for priesthood go into a seminary and feel very alienated by the gay culture. I don't say this in any homophobic sense. It's just the reality.

Bishop LISTECKI: What if it verges on the majority? Well, I think the bishops would have to take a look at assessing whether or not, you know, orientation might be a criterion they evaluate, whether or not someone should be studying for the priesthood. Because suddenly, for the common good of the Church, they would have to take a look to see whether or not this does a detriment to the whole concept of the priesthood.





VALENTE: But there is disagreement over whether homosexual priests are having a detrimental effect on "the common good of the Church."

(to Priest "X"): Does being gay have any impact on a person's ability to minister?

PRIEST "X": I guess I'd rephrase the question by saying, does being sexual have an impact on anybody's ability to minister? And it's clear that if it does or does not, we don't have much choice because all of us have a sexual identity. So to answer your question, no.

VALENTE: Some parishioners seem to ignore the issue. Others say it makes no difference if their priest is gay.

Mr. GEORGE MILES (Parishioner): The sexual orientation of a priest certainly isn't very high on my list of priorities. I look for a spiritual leader, a teacher, a homilist -- a guider of the parish and the people in the parish.

Ms. SALLY STREETER (Parishioner): We're all children of God. And I think their ministry comes from their heart and from their knowledge. There's no implication to me whatsoever. I don't care.

VALENTE (to Priest "X"): Do you think that the average Catholic would care if a priest were open about his homosexual orientation?

PRIEST "X": I know that some of them would not. I know that some of them would.

VALENTE: They would, says this priest, because of common misconceptions.

PRIEST "X": I think whenever you say "gay" there is association or a presupposition that that means "sexually active." I think in some people's minds there's an understanding that homosexuality is somehow related to pedophilia. I think for some people they really do believe that orientation is a matter of choice.

Father MCBRIEN: The real problem that parishioners have today is when they lose a heterosexual priest because he meets someone and falls in love and wants to marry. It isn't so much an animosity toward the gay as it is a frustration with the system, which allows the loss of really top-notch heterosexual priests to marriage but allows gay priests, who may in fact -- I say may -- be involved in relationships, can stay in because they're not going to go up before the altar and get married.

VALENTE: With heterosexual men leaving the priesthood, and with some seminaries apparently becoming increasingly gay, what is the future of the priesthood?

Father MCBRIEN: The fact of the matter is that if these trends continue, the Catholic Church will run out of priests, will certainly run out of heterosexual priests.

VALENTE: Some church officials charge that complaints about too many gay priests are really part of a campaign to make priestly celibacy optional. Richard McBrien says the two issues cannot be separated.

Father MCBRIEN: If you let them get married, you'd have enough priests. And that's what they're beginning to say. The pressure won't come from bishops. The bishops will respond to pressure. The pressure is going to come from the average Catholic family, who will eventually wake up to the fact that there aren't enough priests around to perform the sacramental services they've come to take for granted as Catholics.

VALENTE: Critics of the Church's teaching on sexuality say it has not kept up with advances in understanding human sexuality. They argue that the Church must reexamine its positions on a variety of issues related to sexual ethics.

Mr. RASI: All of our sister religions, Christian religions, are talking about this openly. At conventions, in parishes, groups of people are getting together. Bishops are arguing and fighting over it. Ours are not at that point yet.

Father MCBRIEN: If there is an open discussion of gays in the priesthood, that means there will be eventually or at the same time an open discussion of celibacy in the priesthood. And that in turn is going to make it easier to have an even more open discussion of human sexuality in the church, not just in the priesthood.

VALENTE: According to McBrien, the Church has not confronted some of its most sensitive issues.

Father McBRIEN: Birth control, abortion, homosexuality, divorce -- those are our hot-button issues. Why? They're important issues. It's because we haven't resolved them.

Mr. SIPE: The long-term implications of all the "sexual" problems that the Church faces is, I believe, a greater understanding of human sexuality, the spiritual dimensions of it, a more rational approach to sexuality on all levels, and ultimately I believe the development of a theology of sexuality where sex will not be relegated to original sin and all that is bad, and spirituality to everything that is nonsexual.

VALENTE: But for now, whatever the arguments about its sexual teachings, Church officials foresee no change.

Bishop LISTECKI: Two hundred, 300, 400 years from now, the Church's teaching will be consistent as it is today because it's rooted in sacred Scripture and it's rooted in the authentic magisterium, which reflect upon the natural law. It's not going to change. It won't change.

VALENTE: For RELIGION & ETHICS NEWSWEEKLY, this is Judy Valente in Chicago.

[Suesumba]

Re: 1 in 25 priests a pedophile!

Originally posted by britisha:
[qb] Oh no !!!

Is this turning into another gay thread? [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [/qb]

all gay all the time should be the motto for this website... people just can't get enuff of the subject it seems

[ohliz]

Re: 1 in 25 priests a pedophile!

btw you keep saying priests are celibate so they shouldn't be categorised as homosexuals...

I would categorize them as homosexuals if that's how they see themselves, or if they were gay before becoming priests.

I would NOT categorize a pederast who abuses boys as homosexual just as I would not categorize a pederast who abuses girls as heterosexal.

They are neither, they like CHILDREN.

take a look at this:

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/week531/feature.html

BOB ABERNETHY, anchor: The scandals in the Catholic church have prompted wide-ranging questions about sexual orientation and practice, among them issues of homosexuality. Experts insist that pedophilia -- sexual attraction to children -- has no connection to homosexuality.

Did you read your own article?? It agrees with what I have been saying for pages and pages now!

[Trelli]

Re: 1 in 25 priests a pedophile!

I POSTED IT TO SHOW YOU THAT A LOT OF PRIESTS ARE IN FACT HOMOSEXUALS- WHETHER OR NOT THEY ARE CELIBATE!

btw who said that homosexuality was explicitly connected to child molestation?

you claimed most child molesters are straight.

you are the one trying to connect sexuality to child molestation here...

[ohliz]

Re: 1 in 25 priests a pedophile!

It shows me that some priests consider themselves to be gay....I'll accept that. It doesn't show me that homosexual priests are 81% of the child abusing priests...I guess I'll die waiting for someone to back that statement up, opr maybe servant is reading through his study now to try to find that...I hope so.

You probably should have read this part before you posted it though, since it pretty much shoots down your main argument:

Experts insist that pedophilia -- sexual attraction to children -- has no connection to homosexuality.

[Trelli]

Re: 1 in 25 priests a pedophile!

please tell me what my main argument is.

btw look in the mirror and you will see the person who tried to make a connection between sexuality and pedophilia!

[ohliz]

Re: 1 in 25 priests a pedophile!

Sigh.

Trelli, read back...I was not the person that introduced the word "homosexuality" into this topic about priests molesting children.

I merely responded to that person.