(666) The mark of the Beast

**wildfire1_102** · 07-20-2002, 06:07 PM

Re: (666) The mark of the Beast

(Fledgist) "You are aware, of course, that the Book of Revelation was written in Greek, are you not?"

Just in cast you think only the Book of Revelation was written in Greek, the New Testament books were written in Koine Greek.

(Greek) "Lateinos" which means "the Latin (man)" This is the word referred to because Latin not only related to the Roman Empire, but has specific reference to the Roman Catholic Church itself. Latin was the common language of the Roman Empire and was later adopted by the Church as its official language for hundreds of years. Therefore, "lateinos" was an appropriate word to describe the Empire in general, and more especially the Roman Catholic Church itself.

**Fledgist** · 07-20-2002, 08:25 PM

Re: (666) The mark of the Beast

Originally posted by wildfire1_102:
[qb](Fledgist) "You are aware, of course, that the Book of Revelation was written in Greek, are you not?"

Just in cast you think only the Book of Revelation was written in Greek, the New Testament books were written in Koine Greek.

(Greek) "Lateinos" which means "the Latin (man)" This is the word referred to because Latin not only related to the Roman Empire, but has specific reference to the Roman Catholic Church itself. Latin was the common language of the Roman Empire and was later adopted by the Church as its official language for hundreds of years. Therefore, "lateinos" was an appropriate word to describe the Empire in general, and more especially the Roman Catholic Church itself.[/qb]

Whatever you're smoking, it's having an effect.

**wildfire1_102** · 07-20-2002, 08:44 PM

Re: (666) The mark of the Beast

(Fledgist)
If you dont have anything constructive to say, why even bother.

Originally posted by Fledgist:
[qb]

Originally posted by wildfire1_102:
[qb](Fledgist) "You are aware, of course, that the Book of Revelation was written in Greek, are you not?"

Just in cast you think only the Book of Revelation was written in Greek, the New Testament books were written in Koine Greek.

(Greek) "Lateinos" which means "the Latin (man)" This is the word referred to because Latin not only related to the Roman Empire, but has specific reference to the Roman Catholic Church itself. Latin was the common language of the Roman Empire and was later adopted by the Church as its official language for hundreds of years. Therefore, "lateinos" was an appropriate word to describe the Empire in general, and more especially the Roman Catholic Church itself.[/qb]

Whatever you're smoking, it's having an effect.[/qb]

**One-Love** · 07-20-2002, 08:56 PM

Re: (666) The mark of the Beast

Originally posted by Witchy Ooman:
[qb]Wildfire, I cannot believe that you wasted your time typing all of that; I certainly hope that you didn't waste your time actually making those silly calculations.

As has been posted in SPirituality MANY MANY MANY times before (check the archives), it's NOT the number six hundred sixty-six; It is three vauvs (Hebrew letter that equates roughly to the Letter "V"). It is more to be considered a picture/drawing, much like a heiroglyphic, of a clawmark, whcih is exactly how it was intended by the original authors.

Like I keep on saying (vainly, it seems)... one can NOT study the Bible except for doing so IN THE ORIGINAL LAUNGUAGES in which it was written and with a FULL UNDERSTANDING of the cultures in which it was written.

ANYone who believes what you posted (and *I* am NOT saying that YOU actually believe that garbage, THAT is for YOU to say!) clearly does NOT have any kind of understanding of the above criteria necessary to study the Bible properly.

By the way, IF you do not read Hebrew or Greek... to immediately create the ability to study the Bible as it was intended, without years of the studies you haven't already got (remember, I said IF), get the Tanakh. Ask Israelites or JM1 (if you don't believe ME) if it isn't worth the money.[/qb]

Could you elaborate a little on what is in this book "Tanakh"

**Wahalla** · 07-21-2002, 11:38 AM

Re: (666) The mark of the Beast

Originally posted by wildfire1_102:
[qb](Wahalla)
Laugh if you have to, cry if you must.
But, remember what the bible say.
The Anti-Christ is already in the world.
1 John 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.[/qb]

Laughter... I save tears for a real tragedy.... The pope the anti christ.....

**Mutty** · 07-21-2002, 02:26 PM

Re: (666) The mark of the Beast

Wahalla, I think he/she is referring to A Pope (one in the future) and not necessarily the one in the Vatican now. That dude probably can't even piss straight anymore and has one foot on a banana peel and one in the grave. May he R.I.P

But in answer to the question, I think the Anti-Christ is Howard Stern.

**Witchy Ooman** · 07-21-2002, 08:51 PM

Re: (666) The mark of the Beast

Originally posted by One-Love:
[qb]Could you elaborate a little on what is in this book "Tanakh"[/qb]

I did.

I'll repest myself once more, and perhaps you'll read it this time.

T---h---e B---i---b---l---e.

No, I cannot (or will not) elaborate -- in here -- as to its contents. That's an outrageous request akin to Hillel's wiseass student who wanted the great Rabbi to teach [him] the entire Talmud while [he (the student)] stood on one leg!! (By the way, the great Rabbi DID come up with the very same answer that Our Lord, Jesus, would have approved of... He said, with a inscrutable smile (according to history/legend), "Love thy neighbor; the rest is all commentary.")

I was more specific in my original post as to the Tanakh; I said:

Originally posted by Witchy Ooman:
[qb]Like I keep on saying (vainly, it seems)... one can NOT study the Bible except for doing so IN THE ORIGINAL LAUNGUAGES in which it was written and with a FULL UNDERSTANDING of the cultures in which it was written.
~~~~~~~~~
By the way, IF you do not read Hebrew or Greek... to immediately create the ability to study the Bible as it was intended, without years of the studies you haven't already got (remember, I said IF), get the Tanakh. Ask Israelites or JM1 (if you don't believe ME) if it isn't worth the money.[/qb]

Or have I misunderstood you...

Are you asking me to tell you more about what's in the Bible (the ORIGINAL WORKS)? My answer to THAT is... do your own homework!

People in here L---O---V---E to talk about the Bible, but more of them have not (than have) actually READ "what it really says". Unless one has read the Hebrew and Greek, or the next-best: the closest translational/explanational equivalent -- The Tanakh... then one hasn't truly read it (what it really says) AT ALL. If one hasn't read the actual works, then one has NO BUSINESS arguing any portion of it! (Would any sane individual argue the contents of "The Brothers Karamasov" or "Anna Karenina" if s/he had never read it? Would any sane individual -- who knew ONLY English and NO Russian) argue the translational differences between the English and Russian versions -- or EVEN FULLY UNDERSTAND NUANCES in the English version?! Why then, is the Bible different??? One cannot understand the Bible properly from ANY English-only version, any more than one can fully understand Dostoyevsky without speaking/reading/understanding Russian -- or 19th century Russian culture! Yet, there are people who come in here and do so regularly...)

**Beluved** · 07-22-2002, 09:38 AM

Re: (666) The mark of the Beast

Great topic all..

Don't let emotions disconcert this thread.

please..

Maybe we can get some where... Let us respectfully debate.. not argue..

Thanks..

**Judea** · 07-22-2002, 11:59 AM

Re: (666) The mark of the Beast

The "Tanakh" is the Jewish Bible, you can find it on the internet.

**NYer** · 07-22-2002, 01:28 PM

Re: (666) The mark of the Beast

"Love thy neighbor; the rest is all commentary."

AMEN to that. So many forget that this is the main point. If everyone could do this, imagine our world....

**Wahalla** · 07-22-2002, 07:22 PM

Re: (666) The mark of the Beast

Originally posted by Wahalla:
[qb]

Originally posted by wildfire1_102:
[qb](Wahalla)
Laugh if you have to, cry if you must.
But, remember what the bible say.
The Anti-Christ is already in the world.
1 John 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.[/qb]

Laughter... I save tears for a real tragedy.... The pope the anti christ.....[/qb]

Lets see the list of people I have read desribed as the Anti Christs have included: Temujin, Salid Al Din, Babur, Martin Luther, Mandela, Desi Tutu, Brigham Young, the guy who started the Methodist movement, Wilberforce, Napoleon, M J Ghandi, Martin Luther King, Robspiere, Erasmus, Rosseua, Voltaire, Karl Marx, Lenin, Trosky, Tousaint, Castro, St Pio, Mohamed, Gorbachev.... Joan of Arc

Incidentally... Why assume a base 10 number system... Why not a Samerian base 8 ?

**britisha** · 07-22-2002, 08:32 PM

Re: (666) The mark of the Beast

That dude probably can't even piss straight anymore and has one foot on a banana peel and one in the grave. May he R.I.P

Which "dude" r u referring to John Paul? If so, that is a low blow, a very low blow, intolerance against old people or the church?. ...btw, not many will live to see John Paul's age? If you wish to attack the church, feel free, but puhleeze, not the man....pooh.

Remember the story about the boys who were teasing the old man going up the hill, and the wolves came out and devoured them...they never lived to see his age. Walk good.

**britisha** · 07-22-2002, 08:50 PM

Re: (666) The mark of the Beast

Interesting read re Vicarius Filii Dei...do you believe this also?...

My daughter recently married a Seventh-Day Adventist (against my husband's and my intense opposition). He attacks the Catholic Church whenever he gets the chance. One of his main objects of scorn is our Holy Father, who, he says, is the beast spoken of in Revelation 13. He claims he can "prove" this because the pope's title, Vicarius Filli Dei Latin for Vicar of the Son of God), adds up to 666--the "number of the beast" mentioned in Revelation 13. Is this true? How can we respond?

You were right to object to this marriage. No doubt, with his attitude, your son-in-law will do everything he can to rob your daughter of her Catholic faith and wrest her away from the Church (this is why Paul warned us not to be "unequally yoked" [2 Cor. 6:14]. Encourage your daughter to remain steadfast in the faith, and do your best to respond to her husband's attacks in a charitable but firm way.

Let's consider this accusation. Latin, Greek, and Hebrew have numerical values assigned to various letters in their alphabets. In Latin the values are: I=1, V=5, X=10, L=50, C=100, D=500, M=1,000. By extension W=10 (because W=VV, or two Vs together), and U=V (because there was no letter U for the Romans; where you see the letter U in modern writing, use the letter V instead).

As you can work out for yourself, Vicarius Filii Dei does add up to 666 in Latin: Vicarius=112; Filii=53, Dei=501. (Ignore letters which are not assigned a numerical value.) The problem is that Vicarius Filii Dei is not a title of the pope. One of his titles, in fact his chief title, is Vicarius Christi (Vicar of Christ), but, unfortunately for Seventh-Day Adventists and other anti-Catholics who attempt to use this ploy, Vicarius Christi adds up to only a measly 214, not the infernal 666.

Since the average person, Catholic or Protestant, hasn't the foggiest idea what the pope's titles are in Latin or English, anti-Catholics (some of whom know better) can get away with this subterfuge.

But what if one of the pope's titles did add up to 666? Would that coincidence prove the pope is the beast? Hardly. It would prove nothing because lots of names and titles add up to 666. By using a nifty little technique you can force a Seventh-Day Adventist to admit that the addition to 666 proves nothing, even when it's a papal title that's in question. Here's how.

Have your son-in-law do the math, and he'll be shocked to learn that the name of the woman who started Seventh-Day Adventism, Ellen Gould White, adds up to 666: Ellen=100, Gould=555, White=11. Ask him whether this "proves" that the foundress of his religion was the beast? If he says "No," then the tallying of the name means nothing. If he says "Yes," then what's he doing belonging to a church founded by the beast? Either way his argument collapses. (Isn't apologetics fun?)

Copyright © 1992 Catholic Answers. Reprinted with permission from the September 1992 issue of This Rock magazine.

**slick** · 07-22-2002, 11:39 PM

Re: (666) The mark of the Beast

Catholic teachings teach that the last pope will be the false teacher of revelation.
The anti-christ "rises" from the mediterrainian (Europe). Watch out for who becomes the leader of the EU (European Union).

The anti-christ cannot be revealed until the church is raptured****

**Witchy Ooman** · 07-22-2002, 11:54 PM

Re: (666) The mark of the Beast

Originally posted by Suniica:
[qb]The "Tanakh" is the Jewish Bible, you can find it on the internet.[/qb]

What you so... interestingly... term "the Jewish Bible" -- most of us call it the Old Testament -- is roughly three quarters of the OT & NT combined that most Christians call the Bible.

Suniica, are you trying to say that the entirety of the book is online? In the same one place?? That the English AND the Hebrew AND the comparison AND the explanation AND all the commentary is all on one page (portion by portion, as it is in the real book)?!! I'd like to see that URL, if you please!!

Yes, portions of it are online (I've seen the English translation, with none of the rest of the above, and some sites are more accurate in the reproducing of it than others are... And the Hebrew text, but not next to the English, for comparison purposes...)

What *I* was referring to is ONE BOOK, and on each page is (1) The Hebrew text, (2) The English translation of that text, (3) notes of explanation regarding cultural differences, historical differences, etc., and (4) additional commentary. One source, one place to find all the things you want to compare and consider.

I hope you're right, coz I'd love to find it -- for FREE -- and not have to pay for it!

(666) The mark of the Beast

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