Three Lost Days

[jedi]

Re: Three Lost Days

Originally posted by Tuesday's Child:
[qb]I won't even pretend to know what that was all about. The only thing I can think of was that it was just a symbolic representation of what the resurrection was and is all about.[/qb]

Not good enough Mutsy! Go do some homework! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] I am going to dig into this more. See you later. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[jedi]

Re: Three Lost Days

Hmmmm! No more responses huh!. Well I am going to make a few more searches in the spirit of getting it all straight myself, particularly on Matt. 27:52-53. Well I found the answer to part II of my querry.

[Diplomat]

Re: Three Lost Days

Jedi: Will get back to you on that as I am a bit busy right now.

[jedi]

Re: Three Lost Days

Here is what I have unearthed so far from the Logos commentary.

The Father Vindicates His Murdered Son (27:50-53)
Elijah did not come to deliver Jesus, but signs that Jews regularly expected to accompany the death of the righteous did follow Jesus' death (vv. 51-53). To both pagan and Jewish audiences these signs would indicate divine approval of Jesus and disapproval of his executioners (see Kee 1983:189; Best 1965:98; R. Brown 1994:1113-14). The raising of dead persons at Jesus' death (vv. 52-53) reminds us that by refusing to save himself, Jesus did save others (v. 42). Yet by mentioning only many of the saints, Matthew clearly intends this sign merely to prefigure the final resurrection, proleptically signified in Jesus' death and resurrection (Cullmann 1956a:168) . Popular folk religion venerated the tombs of saints (Meyers and Strange 1981:162), and the very people who sought Jesus' death built those tombs (23:29-32); but Jesus, the holiest saint of all, had power to raise them.

[Diplomat]

Re: Three Lost Days

Jedi: Matt 27:52,53 seems fairly straight-forward to me. What is it about it that you find confusing?

[jedi]

Re: Three Lost Days

Originally posted by CEW:
[qb]Jedi: Matt 27:52,53 seems fairly straight-forward to me. What is it about it that you find confusing?[/qb]

Trying to tie it all together. If the saints are away from the body and present with God in spirit, then what was the significance of the tombs opening up and the dead being resurrected. And where did they go? up in the train when He Christ ascended or back to the grave?

You see now that I have read that lengthy exposition which I posted above I have to reconcile my thoughts with this new thinking. That is what I am basically trying to do.

[fOrTyLeGz]

Re: Three Lost Days

Originally posted by CEW:

Matt 27:52,53 seems fairly straight-forward to me. What is it about it that you find confusing

Originally posted by Jedi:

He was resurrected on the third day a thing that no one else had done so that it is said that He was the "First born from the dead."

Many Christians believe that Jesus was the first resurrected from the dead, however,

Matthew 27:51
....and the earth shook, and the rocks were split; the tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection (death actually) they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

These saints were raised before Jesus.

[Diplomat]

Re: Three Lost Days

Originally posted by Jedi:
[qb]...If the saints are away from the body and present with God in spirit, then what was the significance of the tombs opening up and the dead being resurrected. And where did they go? up in the train when He Christ ascended or back to the grave? [/qb]

Interesting questions. What do you think happened to Lazarus after his initial resurrection? I think he died a second time after living for whatever period after. Same thing here as there is nothing to indicate that these folks ascended with Christ when He left. It is important to note that their resurrection was a VERY powerful testimony of what was to come, and also validated in a very visible way, the person of Christ and His statement to Martha that He was indeed the Resurrection and the Life (John 11:24,25).

It is also important to note Matt 27:54; " Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God." In a lot of ways, this was what it was all about; the proving of Christ that He was who He said He was at a time when He was crucified as a criminal.

This is what Matthew Henry has to say regarding vv 51-56: The rending of the veil signified that Christ, by his death, opened a way to God. We have an open way through Christ to the throne of grace, or mercy-seat now, and to the throne of glory hereafter. When we duly consider Christ's death, our hard and rocky hearts should be rent; the heart, and not the garments. That heart is harder than a rock that will not yield, that will not melt, where Jesus Christ is plainly set forth crucified. The graves were opened, and many bodies of saints which slept, arose. To whom they appeared, in what manner, and how they disappeared, we are not told; and we must not desire to be wise above what is written. The dreadful appearances of God in his providence, sometimes work strangely for the conviction and awakening of sinners. This was expressed in the terror that fell upon the centurion and the Roman soldiers. We may reflect with comfort on the abundant testimonies given to the character of Jesus; and, seeking to give no just cause of offence, we may leave it to the Lord to clear our characters, if we live to Him. Let us, with an eye of faith, behold Christ and him crucified, and be affected with that great love wherewith he loved us. But his friends could give no more than a look; they beheld him, but could not help him. Never were the horrid nature and effects of sin so tremendously displayed, as on that day when the beloved Son of the Father hung upon the cross, suffering for sin, the Just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God. Let us yield ourselves willingly to his service."

Interestingly, a number of other commentaries were silent on this particular text, but I sure hope this helps.

[Diplomat]

Re: Three Lost Days

Originally posted by fOrTyLeGz:
[qb]

Originally posted by CEW:

Matt 27:52,53 seems fairly straight-forward to me. What is it about it that you find confusing

Originally posted by Jedi:

He was resurrected on the third day a thing that no one else had done so that it is said that He was the "First born from the dead."

Many Christians believe that Jesus was the first resurrected from the dead, however,

Matthew 27:51
....and the earth shook, and the rocks were split; the tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection (death actually) they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

These saints were raised before Jesus.[/qb]

Sure but they apparently all died at some point afterwards to await the final resurrection. Christ was the only one to be raised with/in a spiritual body and as such was the "first fruit" of those that are to be resurrected unto everlasting life.

[jedi]

Re: Three Lost Days

Okay thanks (((CEW))). At anyrate I am writing to CRI today with this question will keep you posted. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[fOrTyLeGz]

Re: Three Lost Days

Originally posted by CEW:

Sure but they apparently all died at some point afterwards to await the final resurrection. Christ was the only one to be raised with/in a spiritual body and as such was the "first fruit" of those that are to be resurrected unto everlasting life.

"Apparently?" Probably? I think they died again?

I wonder why you would think that CEW, because these folks had been in their tombs for a long time. These folks were skeletons in the grave and yet the bodies they presented with were "normal." I say that because folks recognized them. They weren't like Lazurus who had just died.

[accepted77]

Re: Three Lost Days

Jedi, good research.

Mutty, you did it again the 4LW knew you would, get back to Hell [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I mean Tartarus.

Jedi just one area of concern and it is not meant as a criticism but its a jump to conclude Abraham bossom equates heaven.

Sone questions I am pondering.

How close was Eden to heaven? God seemed to frequent that place a lot?
Who was the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil meant for, I have heard some say only Jesus ate that fruit at his death?

Not a lot of answers here but plenty surmises, surmises that may or may not be biblical.

The New Jerusalem is the seat of Jesus Kingdom Rule on earth but is also a corridor to heaven, do we really know enough about heaven to break down partitions?

I feel cosy sticking with Biblical descriptions

Reason I am asking is that Jesus equated paradise with Abraham's bossom.

He also said "I am the way the truth and the life no man cometh to the father but by me?" and we know "Our Father which is in heaven".

Putting Abraham and the Patriachcal saints in heaven before Jesus redemptive work was done is out of the time line.

Seeing also that Hell is the grave, the abyss and the Lake of fire, it seems to me that these are real distinctions moreso than just time and place. But also distinctions of purpose.

Note well that in this the church dispensation it is one of faith continued from the the promise of Abraham which was interrupted by the dispensation of Law.

Gal 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
Gal 3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Gal 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Gal 3:15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise:but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Gal 3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
Gal 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
Gal 3:22But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under law

My Point here is that Abraham and the patriarchs up untill the law was given were not under law but under promise.

Abraham himself met Melshezidec about who we are not told much except that Jesus was after the Priesthood of Melcheszedec a King and Preist forever without begining or end of days.

Abraham was of same type of faith dispensation as the church with one major exception, Jesus did not yet die for his sins. He could not recieve the promise of the Father, so he could not get to heaven, he was not yet born of spirit.

The law was added only for the 'Jews' because of trangressions. Yet when Jesus related the story of the rich man and the beggar he related it to those under law, also he said to the thief "today also you will be with me in Paradise" but the scriptures clearly identifies him going into hell.

To those under the law, righteousness was in the keeping of the law. Those who died under the law had no exposure to righteousness through faith.

Surmise we may that 'the captivity that was led captive' were those who accepted the saving faith of Jesus death which he preached to them in Paradise, these who did not were given a second chance they arose in the body in the church dispensation??? But that surmise runs into scripture again there is no salvation in the grave.

So its best to say we do not know we do not surmise.

In light of the much we do not know I would leave it at Paradise or Abraham's bossom.
Saying Heaven is a strech.

I say all this to say with these above exceptions, I agree with most of what you got from that Pastor and I have come around to agreeing with Mutty on Genesis 6 and the exposition of Enoch, Jude and 2 Peter.

This after long debates in here before you came to this forum, JM1, Witchy Ooman and Mire on whether angels can procreate.

Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

Mark 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

[Diplomat]

Re: Three Lost Days

fOrTyLeGz: Are you finding it incredible that God could have raised them up in their natural bodies so others could recognize them? Being dead is being dead. What difference is it if it is four days or forty years? The same Power that resurrected Lazarus, was the same power that raised these folks, and there was nothing spiritual about the bodies they came out with.

As for my use of the word "apparently", seeing the Scriptures are silent on the issue, we are left to apply deductive reasoning based on what has been said elsewhere.

[fOrTyLeGz]

Re: Three Lost Days

Originally posted by CEW:

fOrTyLeGz: Are you finding it incredible that God could have raised them up in their natural bodies so others could recognize them? Being dead is being dead. What difference is it if it is four days or forty years? The same Power that resurrected Lazarus, was the same power that raised these folks, and there was nothing spiritual about the bodies they came out with.

As for my use of the word "apparently", seeing the Scriptures are silent on the issue, we are left to apply deductive reasoning based on what has been said elsewhere.

Well, I guess I was thinking about resurrection, and how Lazurus and Jesus too were not dead that long. But these saints had been dead for a while. Their resurrection is like the resurrection that Christians are promised in the end times, where as Jesus and Lazurus are miracles performed by Jesus.

[jedi]

Re: Three Lost Days

(((Accepted))) I have seen your post above and bwoy fi tell yuh di troot mi is a bit confused from the expose which I found. Now some of it seems okay. At any rate I have sent my question to CRI and I am waiting for a response that could take up to a month And a lot of what I posted there are from commentaries. Doesn't mean that I am in complete agreement either nor am I surmising rather I am questioning since obviously what I had believed seems to be questionable as some believe that, while others believe what the Pastor above says. Will look in on your complete post later. Would help though if you could use my direct quotes corresponding to your comments. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]