Official True History of Paradise discussion

[mountaingal]

Re: Official True History of Paradise discussion

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MG I like "Doctor Wife" can't remember her real name Mary's mother and of course Mr. Ho Sing. Even though it was a different kind of ancestor story I especially liked how she did the African ancestor in that chant/song like prose near the end.


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yes, I liked the Doctor Wife (Jean Falkirk) one, too, and strangely enough, the one with the black preacher who was fighting mightily his attraction to the 15 year old slave girl, set in the time of the Bogle insurrection. it seems to me to embody helplessness in the face of things bigger than you - whether it is a rebellion against oppression, or illicit love.

[mountaingal]

Re: Official True History of Paradise discussion

picking up on the relationship between Paul and Jean - do you think the romantic relationships depicted in the book ring true?

Call me easy, but if Paul a did mi friend and mi spend summuch time wid him and have feelings fi him, sittn would have happened long time! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

How about Monica's approach to marriage - basically business decisions? She marries Roy Landing because she sees the possibility of taking over the family bakery. She goes out with Delly though him married, and refuses to marry him when he gets free, because she doesn't want to share her money. She's no fool for love (except for her first man, Deepa), but would she have been a better character had she been?

[CeaBee]

Re: Official True History of Paradise discussion

The relationship with Deepak, profoundly affected her ,and changed her approach to all relationships that followed. Once bitten, twice shy...

[seemiyah]

Re: Official True History of Paradise discussion

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picking up on the relationship between Paul and Jean - do you think the romantic relationships depicted in the book ring true?

Call me easy, but if Paul a did mi friend and mi spend summuch time wid him and have feelings fi him, sittn would have happened long time! [img]/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

How about Monica's approach to marriage - basically business decisions? She marries Roy Landing because she sees the possibility of taking over the family bakery. She goes out with Delly though him married, and refuses to marry him when he gets free, because she doesn't want to share her money. She's no fool for love (except for her first man, Deepa), but would she have been a better character had she been?

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Yes I think it ran true because she was a child when they met so his feelings would be purely platonic/frienship and with beauty queen looks Lana as her sister I knew that relationship was only a matter of time. So I think once you think of someone in a brotherly/sisterly way its harder to see them in a different light so I think that is how he viewed her.

With Monica as we see her first marriage was of convenience and is only because she couldn't tief the other brother before he died why Roy got his shot. But I think once she got secure in her standing in the community her relationship with someone like Delly made sense as he was another vehicle into high society and attending all the 'right' events.

That brings me to another point in the book about relationships with married men, all of them Monica, Lana and Jean all had relationships with married men and it wasn't really frowned upon. Do you think it is condoned in JA society that a man will have his woman on the side and outside children?

[mountaingal]

Re: Official True History of Paradise discussion

cools, sound like you really a feel Monica on the once bitten twice shy thing... [img]/forums/images/graemlins/70456-eyebrows.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

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That brings me to another point in the book about relationships with married men, all of them Monica, Lana and Jean all had relationships with married men and it wasn't really frowned upon. Do you think it is condoned in JA society that a man will have his woman on the side and outside children?

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it clearly seems so - look pan di way Mark a try stammer him way out of his side ting with Amina, when him suppose to engage to Jean.

And yet, it's funny that this "understanding" pertained in some of the older, ancestral generations, but the women still married - while neither Jean, Monica, or Lana married or were willing to enter marriage with this "understanding". maybe is a statement of a kind about woman empowerment... [img]/forums/images/graemlins/70402-thinking.gif[/img]

[CeaBee]

Re: Official True History of Paradise discussion

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cools, sound like you really a feel Monica on the once bitten twice shy thing

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As tuffie would say, "come affa mi cawn!"

As to the issue of female empowerment, Lana was constantly in and out of bad relationships, even if she never married. Jean hooked up with an overweight, aging, married man in the end. Monica, was the only truly independent female character in the book that I can recall.

[mountaingal]

Re: Official True History of Paradise discussion

i think my puter is hiding some of the posts, so forgive me if smaddy else has posted this:

i thought we could turn now to a discussion of class in the book. it seems to me that Monica, in taking a stand in the society, is defending a certain way of life for herself and those of her class, and that the author is sympathetic to this.

By that I mean that the novel lacks counterbalancing descriptions of the way poor urban Jamaicans live. The helper and her sons (and in some way the gardener) are really the small windows into life outside the moneyed, private-school, jewellery and cars lifestyle of Monica and her family.

Is this a failing in the novel? Would it have benefitted from more exploration (and resulting contrast) of ghetto life?

Or is it that the "uptown" story is not told enough in Jamaican literature, and this redresses a kind of balance?

[mountaingal]

Re: Official True History of Paradise discussion

for example, i'm fascinated by Lana's career path, because i know people who've gone through that route:
*girls school weh dem more interested in boys dan books
*leave school widdout concern wedda dem have qualifications or not caw dem is brown and pretty
*look fi beauty contest as a kind of ritual "coming out" in society - the j'can equivalent of the debutante ball
*career as flight attendant or some other job where their prettiness is their main qualification
*marriage to man wid money (though Lana kinna fall dung pan dis part)

this pattern seems well established, no? and is part of what Monica is trying to preserve when she shoot di guy at the bakery, no?

[CeaBee]

Re: Official True History of Paradise discussion

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Is this a failing in the novel? Would it have benefitted from more exploration (and resulting contrast) of ghetto life?


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MG, although the book is a work of fiction it appears that the author borrowed heavily from her own life.

It appears to me that she depicted the "uptown" lifestyle in the book, because that was her reality and her frame of reference. She told the story from the POV with which she was most familiar, and which would ring true.

[mountaingal]

Re: Official True History of Paradise discussion

coolbeans, i think you're right. but then, as a novelist, maybe there was an obligation to delve a little more in unfamiliar turf - especially given the background of social upheaval in which events take place.

you know, when i first saw mention of her the helper's son Sonny, I thought, "oh wow, here we're going to see, right in Monica's house, a clash of the classes!" and I was tense with anticipation. but it turned out to be another example of that middle/upper class affliction, as I call it, "helping the poor who are always with us," that tendency to sponsor sewing classes and woodworking shops. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/704555_dwl.gif[/img] Sonny was no real threat, in fact, them help him get singing/poetry career (a Mikey Smith ?) the dub poet that was supposed to be, no?)

[CeaBee]

Re: Official True History of Paradise discussion

You're right, the author says something about monica and the helper having a falling out regarding one of the sons.

I thought something exciting was going to happen- like Lala or Jean hooked up with him [img]/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]...instead the only thing that happened was that Monica turned him down for a job at the bakery...

me tink me need fi re-read bits and pieces of this book tonight

[seemiyah]

Re: Official True History of Paradise discussion

Even if the author is borrowing from her life, I think the story having Jean as the main character didn't have a lot of interaction with poor people so the glimpses into their lives came from her direct interaction with them which was limited so I didn't think it was a failing.

[MrsBlue]

Re: Official True History of Paradise discussion

<font color="blue">My book just came yesterday [img]/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] and I'm reading as fast as I can. I'm caught up in the book, though, and I'm in Part 3. I don't know if I'll finish it tonight, but I'm working on it so I can participate.


Can we open another thread to discuss what the next book will be in advance? </font>

[mountaingal]

Re: Official True History of Paradise discussion

take your time, blue, this thread will be here when you're done. look forward toyour comments. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/70371-jump.gif[/img]

[mountaingal]

Re: Official True History of Paradise discussion

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Even if the author is borrowing from her life, I think the story having Jean as the main character didn't have a lot of interaction with poor people so the glimpses into their lives came from her direct interaction with them

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true, and very convenient!