Our colorful Prime Ministers

[MaasDee]

Re: Our colorful Prime Ministers

[ QUOTE ]
essentially jamaicans are race conscious in the sense that they know they are african majority, but not racist. so seaga & manley for that matter were judged as individuals by the people, not races.
now in a place like latin america they would be watching his race a lot more closely.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yu realy believe that or yu juss a defen yu party?

With rhetoric like "my leader born ya" and talk about dat "Syrian bwoy" and even PJ a chat bout "black man time", yu either know nothing about Jamaican politics or yu in denial.

[Q3210]

Re: Our colorful Prime Ministers

This PNP govt. under Patterson has been the most corrupt of any in our history that it rivals the various episodes of colonial rule.
None has shot its own feet than this Govt. A govt. that led by such a man like Patterson, looks and all, that Jamaica by now under stewardship would not have so many of you running away elsewhere for opportunity that was and up to never been created for its own people except a few.
Where in the world do you have a finance minister who publicly announces that sorry, he had to dig into the public coffers to finance his party winning another election and later saying it wasn`t the right thing to do but at the time of doing it that it was neccessary.
And now that same man is wanting to be Prime Minister with a slogan about Prosperity.
After 13 years as minister, why just now and how will he target prosperity when he is so corrupt that prosperity is for those who circle him and those in his tribe.
Until the time comes when party is put second, when personality is eliminated because of colour and because of what was the title of this thread? Statesmanship!!!
Where has the author of this thread been?
Statesman....who?

[MaasDee]

Re: Our colorful Prime Ministers

[ QUOTE ]
This PNP govt. under Patterson has been the most corrupt of any in our history that it rivals the various episodes of colonial rule.
None has shot its own feet than this Govt. A govt. that led by such a man like Patterson, looks and all, that Jamaica by now under stewardship would not have so many of you running away elsewhere for opportunity that was and up to never been created for its own people except a few.
Where in the world do you have a finance minister who publicly announces that sorry, he had to dig into the public coffers to finance his party winning another election and later saying it wasn`t the right thing to do but at the time of doing it that it was neccessary.
And now that same man is wanting to be Prime Minister with a slogan about Prosperity.
After 13 years as minister, why just now and how will he target prosperity when he is so corrupt that prosperity is for those who circle him and those in his tribe.
Until the time comes when party is put second, when personality is eliminated because of colour and because of what was the title of this thread? Statesmanship!!!
Where has the author of this thread been?
Statesman....who?

[/ QUOTE ]

Cool yu foot, "statesmanship" was used as a question, not as a compliment.

I have been closer to Jamaican politics than many of you will ever get so my opinions are not second hand.

I agree with your comments on how PNP has destroyed the average Jamaican's ability to prosper.

Only way yu prosper in Jamaica now is if yu born rich, marry rich, teef or sell drugs..... or if yu chummy wid a dutty politician.

Peace!

[Q3210]

Re: Our colorful Prime Ministers

Man, with all that you say, I`d shy from admitting that I was that close, closer than anyone in here as you say to politics in Jamaica. [img]/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Wardob, Tuff Gong where are you?

Mass Dee, if Jamaica had the will to right itself, do you think a Truth commission would help?
Many would have to run, right?

Why I ask is that we got to get denial out of the way and bring honesty up front. If not, Jamaicans will always have `ginnal` as their second name.
Maybe `murderer` is a more updated name and `teef`.

History makes Capt. Morgan a villain so too the colonial masters, but when our own can out do and screw up what was left after 1962, it is more than disgrace.

[Wardob]

Re: Our colorful Prime Ministers


“Only way yu prosper in Jamaica now is if yu born rich, marry rich, teef or sell drugs..... or if yu chummy wid a dutty politician.”…….. MassDee

I view such a statement to be insulting. An insult to the people of our Country to the men and women who does enjoy some level of prosperity, not through your categories but earned it through hard work and planning.

“Q” hold tight. Will be on the Rock in a few hours, catch U then……………Peace

[wolmersboy]

Re: Our colorful Prime Ministers

No, I don't think Seaga's color has much to do with how people in Jamaica perceive him. His policies just simply weren't what the people wanted to hear or see in action. Unfortunately, what would have been painful, but doable restructuring 20 years ago, is almost unbearable now.

As for PJ...classic case of good timing and taking one's opportunities. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Q3210]

Re: Our colorful Prime Ministers

Majority of the electorate didn`t want a strict steward to lead. They wanted a doler or a redistributor of wealth. In other words someone who said, "is blakk man time now" who creamed off the top and scraped the bottom to impress the miseducated electorate.
See! Jamaica is paying for all the benefits now that a few were able to gain by way of loyalty to the party.
Party politics has polarised Jamaica into warring tribes, hovelled in urban garrisons that ensure re-election every 5 years.
On the face of it all, Jamaicans are fun-loving, smiling, laughing people who find it funny to see others slip on the economic banana peel, but will kill if they find themseves the victim to a sly peer brother, but accept the consequences of a failed politics as beyond their means.
Elections is about who can get what, when, how and where.
Elections is not about Jamaica by way of our thinking, by way of our miseducated culture.
It was Attorney at Law and former PNP MP of Central kingston, Deacon Ronnie Thwaites who said that this regime has presided over the greatest transfer of wealth from the POOR to the rich since slavery was abolished.
And you have a Prime minister who has presided since 1991 and a finance minister for 13 years who has been in power and done nothing about such corrupt implications as stated by Deacon Thwaites. And there are many other statements made by PNP stalwarts and the miseducated electorate left behind after the smarter ones migrated, say nothing because they no nothing different from right and wrong, except that gain is coming their way no matter how short it will last and no matter how ill-conceived it was.

[jah_yout]

Re: Our colorful Prime Ministers

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
essentially jamaicans are race conscious in the sense that they know they are african majority, but not racist. so seaga & manley for that matter were judged as individuals by the people, not races.
now in a place like latin america they would be watching his race a lot more closely.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yu realy believe that or yu juss a defen yu party?

With rhetoric like "my leader born ya" and talk about dat "Syrian bwoy" and even PJ a chat bout "black man time", yu either know nothing about Jamaican politics or yu in denial.

[/ QUOTE ]

if j'cans were racists, neither manley or seaga would have ever been elected...sure their race is visible, but what i'm saying is that it wasn't the main factor on which people voted for them.

[MaasDee]

Re: Our colorful Prime Ministers

[ QUOTE ]

“Only way yu prosper in Jamaica now is if yu born rich, marry rich, teef or sell drugs..... or if yu chummy wid a dutty politician.”…….. MassDee

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I view such a statement to be insulting. An insult to the people of our Country to the men and women who does enjoy some level of prosperity, not through your categories but earned it through hard work and planning.

“Q” hold tight. Will be on the Rock in a few hours, catch U then……………Peace

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I must agree with you here, I have been negligent of the more promising peoples of our great nation, those honest, hard working citizens who are the real backbone and essence of our culture and way of life.

To them I apologize for my crass remark because without them Jamaica would be a terrible place.

As to the others I did mention, they are the more visible and are responsible in one way or other for our poor image, the vast inequality in wealth distribution and high crime rate.

[MaasDee]

Re: Our colorful Prime Ministers

Q, we both see things very similarly and I agree with a lot of what you say!

My opinion is that a change of government is the best thing for Jamaica at this stage.

[Wardob]

Re: Our colorful Prime Ministers

“If j'cans were racists, neither manley or seaga would have ever been elected...sure their race is visible, but what i'm saying is that it wasn't the main factor on which people voted for them…” …………..jah yout

Their race is visible? Very interesting, we all know Seaga race what is Manley?

If you ever sit with a group of, or join in a political discussion with most if not all who claim to be PNP supporters, well wishers and the so-call independent voters you will find one common argument when it come to Michael and Eddie, and that is “The Main factor why Manley is preferred over Seaga is race” Nothing more, nothing less brethren.

Since we (Jamaicans) are not racist maybe you and the so-call Neutralists should answer MassDee why words such as those he wrote was used to describe and attack Seaga
"My leader born ya" and talk about dat "Syrian bwoy" and even PJ a chat bout "black man time", yu either know nothing about Jamaican politics or yu in denial.” …MassDee.

Or maybe you are saying we should not judge the rest of Jamaicans base on the racist PNP, who constantly attack Seaga on racial grounds.

MassDee I have carefully read all you have written and agree with most of what you wrote, however the fact still remain at times Mr. Seaga is his worse enemy, not when he is dealing with the PNP but when dealing with members of his own party.

[jah_yout]

Re: Our colorful Prime Ministers

like i said wardob & i repeat JAMAICANS for the most part are not racists...i do not get involved with whatever tactics this or that political party uses whenever they are hungry for their votes or what slogans they throw out there to stir up the likkle man dem...but i have never seen the race being talked about as an issue which galvanized the people where j'can politics are concerned;
in fact i think we are so not racist that we killed and maimed each other's black selves over these two white men for so long...
as for me personally, so you can't twist what i'm saying to suit your political mind...
i man bun out seaga & pj; manley was a good-hearted man but 'im can get bun too but he's not amongst the living anymore, so why bun 'im out?

[Morpheous]

Re: Our colorful Prime Ministers

Where do I start with this topic....

So much accusations, propoganda and counteractions a fly it's amazing.

1. The phrase "a blackman time now" may sound unprofessional to many but to people of African decent in Jamaica a sense of understanding and empathy is realised. I suspect those who take offense to this statement are not derived from African decent or undertand what it meant to be a second class citizen in your own country.

2. There is a wider picture when it come to racial issues where Jamaica is concerned. I did some research on Adult Sufferage and what led to it's arrival and therein lies the real passion behind why many in Jamaica feel that It's "blackman" time now. Maybe it's an echo of what many in Jamaica felt for many many years after being under DIRECT white colonial power.

3. Some mentioned how race being an issue between seaga and manley. That is so far from the truth. They are both "white-skinned" as far as "blackman" is concerned.

4. Some say PJ is creaming... well without asking for evidence and proof of this, I would safely say ALL politicians in high offices have and is creaming off from the public purse. Seaga, Norman, Michael and Shearer no exceptions. No matter how good they come across to the public/voters they are first and foremost a POLITICIAN.

5. Jamaicans are more politically educated now than in the days of manley vs seaga era and as such get more involved in politics from the grass roots up. The media is also more involved in Jamaican politics with more sophisticated technology and access. Now you can watch polititicians argue in their chambers and throw insults at each other, before, that would be unheard of and who knows what insults were flying around back then, out of range of the cameras!!

6. [ QUOTE ]
Only way yu prosper in Jamaica now is if yu born rich, marry rich, teef or sell drugs..... or if yu chummy wid a dutty politician.

[/ QUOTE ]
This statement is not unique to Jamaica [img]/forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Personally, Jamaica should have a constitution where ONLY born and bread Jamaican citizens can run for the highest offices. It should be a matter of national security. Many would like Arnold Schwarzenegger to become US president but that is reserved for USA born and breads only, and rightly so in these times. Manley and seaga have their good bits and their bad bits. It takes two to fight, argue and wage territorial or political war. It also takes two to make peace.

I am not a supporter of any political party or polititian in Jamaica or anywhere else on the planet for that matter. I am a supporter for the poor people, the weak and the exploited.

OUT OF MANY ONE PEOPLE!!

[Q3210]

Re: Our colorful Prime Ministers

nothing wrong uttering "blackman time now"
But look see what Patterson, a black man is meeting out on black people, worst than the infamous colonizers.
Read about Agana Barrett, Michael Gayle, Janice Allen, Kraaal, the Breaton 7 to name a few of the greatest injustices ever done to fellow Jamaicans and nothing done about it....no one held responsible...murders by agents of the state.
Then you can look at the state of the economy, the dilution of educational quality comparitive to years gone by.

One wonders what is really meant by "Blackman time now"
Is it just that it is he who now holds the whip and cracks his brothers who occupy the bottom rung of the social ladder.
See if yu si what ah mean.

[Wardob]

Re: Our colorful Prime Ministers

Well to say that one is suspected to be not from African decent, and does not know what it is to be a second class citizen in his Country, because he or she objected to the stupid term used by the PM “A Black Man Time “ is with due respect nonsense.

Skin color should not be the yard sticks by which one should be qualify to hold any office in Government including that of PM. I may disagree with the policies of some of Jamaica leaders, but I see not skin color and darn proud of them all as they in someway shape or form contributed to our Country.

Norman Manley, Alexander Bustamante, Donald Sangster, Hugh Shearer, Michael Manley, Edward Seaga, all Jamaicans, by birth or naturalization qualified to hold any office in Government as provided for under our constitution. They have all earned their stripes; no more no less than he of darker skin color

The write seems to have done his research, very well, but stop short of researching the fact of the statement. From those words one would could get the impression that no one of his skin color have ever hold the Office of PM. Anyone with knowledge about politics in Jamaica need no research to know, that is a big lie, unless he or she believe Hugh Lawson Shearer was not black enough.

And so the Black Man has is time, over 14 yrs. of it, now where so has he lightened the burdens of his Black Brothers and Sisters