Taxed to death - New tariffs

[RichD]

Re: Taxed to death - New tariffs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ja. Jewel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

As I said, what about those big Spanish hotels?....anyone know if they get some kind of a tax break? </div></div> im sure they do...to encourage the investment..but remember they pay room taxes

[basint1]

Re: Taxed to death - New tariffs

Uprising &quot;soon come&quot; to my favorite Island

Get up Stand Up!

17.5% Sales tax is total bulldung. And it should never be on any food stuff. They should charge a flat $50-$100 tourist entry tax to get needed monies.

[andronian2]

Re: Taxed to death - New tariffs

What I find interesting is that rice an flour weh wi import nuh attract GCT but ground provision, yam, dasheen, an coco, weh wi can grow wiself attract GCT.
Den if people can buy rice cheapa dan dem can buy yam dunga Coro weh yu tink dem ago do?
So yu nuh si seh dis tax package more likely fi kill off wi local food production further?

That's why I really feel that this is part of IMF dictates and part of the reason why the loan was put off was to ensure that the government took the marching orders and implemented the decided taxation regime.
The IMF is really a tool of direct control by economic means and their aim has generally been to destroy local industries and open up markets to imports from multinational corporations.
Note also, that the government has announced a wage freeze on all public sector jobs.

[Amberal37]

Re: Taxed to death - New tariffs

The imports already attract customs duties.

Let's face it - money has to come from somewhere.

This is a great start for the government to formalise the &quot;informal&quot; market.

Higglers that claim they don't sell will have to pay over their 17.5%, the fishermen will pay over their 17.5% and the farmers will pay over their 17.5% - ONLY WHEN THEY SELL IT!

This will help to fund the cost of running the country, and the extra monitoring officers will be a bit of extra cost to make sure that more people are complying.

Currently with income tax - everybody can lie about their profit and their amount of income. GCT is an &quot;easier&quot; tax for the government to source.

And - irrespective of IMF - Jamaica NEEDS better economic control.

Wage freeze is a good thing - keeps the current bill down, and doesn't feed into inflation - which will serve NOBODY well.
(If you look at more advanced economies such as Ireland - you will see that public servants have taken a wage <span style="text-decoration: underline">cut</span> - so we should leave out the victim mentality here - too much of it will kill us!)

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Taxed to death - New tariffs

Nonsense.

[Peasie]

Re: Taxed to death - New tariffs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: karigeni</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is a great start for the government to formalise the &quot;informal&quot; market.

Higglers that claim they don't sell will have to pay over their 17.5%, the fishermen will pay over their 17.5% and the farmers will pay over their 17.5% - ONLY WHEN THEY SELL IT!

This will help to fund the cost of running the country, and the extra monitoring officers will be a bit of extra cost to make sure that more people are complying.</div></div>

Are you being sarcastic?

[halfwaytree]

Re: Taxed to death - New tariffs

This new measure will only serve to increase the black market activity to circumvent the high tax rate.

[andronian2]

Re: Taxed to death - New tariffs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: karigeni</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The imports already attract customs duties.

Let's face it - money has to come from somewhere.
</div></div>

But not from the impoverished people.
How yu gwine squeeze water from a stone?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
This is a great start for the government to formalise the &quot;informal&quot; market.
</div></div>

Well if dem fi formalize it dem fi formalize it.
Increasing taxes is not formalizing it.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Higglers that claim they don't sell will have to pay over their 17.5%, the fishermen will pay over their 17.5% and the farmers will pay over their 17.5% - ONLY WHEN THEY SELL IT!

This will help to fund the cost of running the country, and the extra monitoring officers will be a bit of extra cost to make sure that more people are complying.

Currently with income tax - everybody can lie about their profit and their amount of income. GCT is an &quot;easier&quot; tax for the government to source.

</div></div>

First of all, GCT is not 'easier' to collect on some of the silly things that it has been applied to.
The informal sector is still the informal sector.
Even if vendors collect 17.5% more from customers fi buy yam, an coco who is going to ensure the goverment gets its cut?
Government know how much coco an yam roadside vendor sell?

And as you rightly state, even if tax compliance were 100%, the government only gets tax on what sells.
Oppressive taxation resulting in higher costs will cause people to penny pinch and buy less.
So poor people have less to eat and government doesn't get much more revenue as the higher tax rate is offset by lowered economic activity.

IIRC, this is not the first supplemental budget where taxes have been raised.
All have fallen short of projected revenue because of a combination of poor compliance and reduced spending.
So farmer yam an coco gwine spoil and government gwine scratch dem head again wondering weh di extra tax revenue gone.
Basically, the government's stategy has been counterproductive and silly...they should know to try something new by now.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
And - irrespective of IMF - Jamaica NEEDS better economic control.
</div></div>

But taking the little money people have out of their hands to pay external debt is not the better economic control Jamaica needs.
Taxing locally grown produce and threatening local agriculture is not a way to make jobs.
Do you know that many of the developed countries that lecture poor countries about Free Trade subsidize their farmers.
OTOH, Jamaica tax fertilizer etc. and now ago tax the raw produce fi further put it out of people reach.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Wage freeze is a good thing - keeps the current bill down, and doesn't feed into inflation - which will serve NOBODY well.
(If you look at more advanced economies such as Ireland - you will see that public servants have taken a wage <span style="text-decoration: underline">cut</span> - so we should leave out the victim mentality here - too much of it will kill us!) </div></div>

Ireland's economy is not what it used to be but that is besides the point.
The government wouldn't be so hypocritical if they weren't also raising taxes and if the leaders who are imposing harsh sacrifices on everyone didn't get payed more out of the public coffers than any other similarly sized group.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Taxed to death - New tariffs

You have lots of patience. the poster is a troll.
How are they to evaluate the value on ground provision that is sold in the informal market?
How will they get people who it cost them as much expenses as theiri sales to collect and pay over GTC?

How are these people going to calculate 171/2% taxes. They can't even count money in many cases.
How are they going to increase the cost of living by at least 20%.
not to mention the cost of transport, with the gas taxes increase, and the cost of every single thing?

My question is how long will it be before the first riots.

I guess about January when the kids are supposed to go back to school.
and all hell broke loose after that.
They are going to destroy tourism.
the only other sector that show some life.
Since the riots will change the market instantly.
i suppose they want to shunt the tourists to some other destination. It
It is better to forget the IMF. And go it alone.
It won't be any harder.
although it will be very hard.
The country won't be able to get loans under the IMF anyway.
Other than what they want to lend to private corporations so that they can charge Jamaicans to use facillities that their taxes are paying for.

this is the most s corrupt system in economics. It is worse than the wall st criminals.
They are using deceit to destroy the wealth of third world,and making it cheap for colonial to takeover.
It is no different from what they did to Haiti and most of Africa

[andronian2]

Re: Taxed to death - New tariffs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

My question is how long will it be before the first riots.
</div></div>

God question dat.
I was in Jamaica in the late 90s when the gas riots so it is very possible.
Like you, I'm guessing that riots will commence when the new measures begin to take effect in January.
Jamaicans have a 'take things as they come' attitude that will keep down the protests until then.
I think the level of chaoos will depend on how much silent non-compliance there is.

Basic produce is the raw material for so many processed foods so the expenses will trickle down everywhere.
Not only patty attract GCT but the eggs and meat in it attracted GCT and will add to the cost.
This is the most irresponsible and heartless tax package from any government since I know Jamaica.

[andronian2]

Re: Taxed to death - New tariffs

Mi hear dem a seh now that it don't apply to vendors:

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/Market-vendors-say-new-tax-measures-will-bring-harsh-times

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
&quot;Farmers and vendors who operate within the local markets will not be affected by the GCT increase as they fall below the $3-million GCT threshold,&quot; Shaw told the Sunday Observer.

&quot;For avoidance of doubt, they [vendors] are neither to pay nor charge any GCT,&quot; Shaw added, pointing out that if the food items were bought at places such as supermarkets GCT would apply.

The Tax Administration Services Department also reinforced the point in a news release Friday in which it said that only businesses with projected sales over the GCT threshold of $3 million and which are registered taxpayers will be required to charge GCT.

&quot;Therefore, business persons such as small farmers, market and roadside vendors and other small operators, whose projected annual sales are below the $3-million GCT threshold and are not registered, will not be required to collect GCT,&quot; the department said.
</div></div>

[Amberal37]

Re: Taxed to death - New tariffs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You have lots of patience. the poster is a troll.
</div></div>

Oh please!!you're more of troll than I am...If you see my history of posts you'll see what I've posted on before - also same reason why I largely ignore these threads - if only could get decent logic out of the discussions!

...Besides the point...

Well, quite sensibly the paper today say's there's a threshold of ja$3m - so the low earners have nothing to worry about do they?

Why I mentioned about formalising the informal economy, is because the previous exemptions made it EASY for everybody to avoid the taxes. Bringing more items in, gives the government a good means to set up the control systems so they can really monitor what is happening, and widen the tax net where it is valid.
And why should the government NOT look at means to discourage imports?? OR at the very least - earn enough from the practice in order to set up systems to compensate for the disadvantage to it's economy?
(in case you guys can't work out the disadvantages: lower job creation, outflow of foreign currency, skills compromise).

What I see here is a lot of complaining and grandstanding - Please tell me- how can a government continue to borrow in perpetuity without setting up a means of replacent?

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Taxed to death - New tariffs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: karigeni</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You have lots of patience. the poster is a troll.
</div></div>

Oh please!!you're more of troll than I am...If you see my history of posts you'll see what I've posted on before - also same reason why I largely ignore these threads - if only could get decent logic out of the discussions!
<span style="color: #FF0000">Me I am the troll! OK. .. I'm convinced </span>

...Besides the point...

Well, quite sensibly the paper today say's there's a threshold of ja$3m - so the low earners have nothing to worry about do they?
<span style="color: #FF0000">If you have to see that in the paper before you realize that the policy you stoutly support require that threshold, to even be considered as plausible come to adjust, how should your support of the the policy be treated? </span>

Why I mentioned about formalising the informal economy, is because the previous exemptions made it EASY for everybody to avoid the taxes.
Bringing more items in, gives the government a good means to set up the control systems so they can really monitor what is happening, and widen the tax net where it is valid.
And why should the government NOT look at means to discourage imports??
OR at the very least - earn enough from the practice in order to set up systems to compensate for the disadvantage to it's economy?
(in case you guys can't work out the disadvantages: lower job creation, outflow of foreign currency, skills compromise).


<span style="color: #FF0000">so you suggest formalizing the informal economy?
and you believe that by placing untenable taxes on it will formalize it?
What about the formal economy that only pay 45% of their taxable income?
Hoe come formalization did not result in compliance??
And how does your the policy you so laudably support, increase jobs, and staunch the outflow of foreign currency?
support </span>

What I see here is a lot of complaining and grandstanding - Please tell me- how can a government continue to borrow in perpetuity without setting up a means of replacement?
</div></div><span style="color: #FF0000"> Of Course that is what you see..

The problem is that our vision is coloured by our lenses.

What You see say more about you ability, than it does about what is there.

next time use a dictionary when you read the post.
you don't need a tsarus though.
we keep our vocab here at grammar school level.</span>

[Amberal37]

Re: Taxed to death - New tariffs

Don't use &quot;z&quot; British english - but honestly care not to take grammer and such like, too seriously posting here

I rushed in on responding to the thread, although I had read the article and earlier articles (JIS/Gleaner/Observer) this week - but it doesn't change what I wrote.

Point is, in order to establish the threshold - they have to monitor.
There are also new measures that will help, not least ones like these:
<span style="font-size: 14pt"><span style="font-weight: bold">JAM-IS </span></span>

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: Taxed to death - New tariffs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: karigeni</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't use &quot;z&quot; British english - but honestly care not to take grammer and such like, too seriously posting here

I rushed in on responding to the thread, although I had read the article and earlier articles (JIS/Gleaner/Observer) this week - but it doesn't change what I wrote.

Point is, in order to establish the threshold - they have to monitor.
There are also new measures that will help, not least ones like these:
<span style="font-size: 14pt"><span style="font-weight: bold">JAM-IS </span></span> </div></div>
That is what impresses you?
I will wager you are personally involved in agricultural, or agro industry.
i have a question for you.
Do you think that Jamaica can develop a profitable industrial sector without electric or other reliable energy source??


So why do you think that Jamaica can ever develop a sustainable and profitable agri-industry without a national irrigation scheme?

If the government do not facilitate the industry, how does it expect to collect taxes from the returns?
Life is not only about what other people write.
it is about reality that the majority of so called analysts, are blind to.
reason is that they do no primary research them selves. they glean from others and put a story together. and since the majority of readers are not skilled at analysis themselves they accept the stories are reality
The skills required for nation building, Jamaica does not prepare the citizens for it. As a result it is still a colonial economy that is saddled with a system that export the value added aspect of it's primary products. Jamaica is in this economic bind because it's economy is not designed to benefit the country. It is in reality a farm colony,that primarily produce raw materials for foreign industries,and make nothing in the process. Ir is on it's was to becoming Nauru.g