US issues stinging report on "Dudus" extradition

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: dem really still a hold onto


Power carry a lot of influence.

You are mistaking the acts of law, for that of justice.
They are not the same.
Laws are created to appease the strong and guarantee, the strong will not be motivated to take the law into their own hands.
You see what it brought the Iraqis.

When the gun is pointed as you , whether it is done so by a police officer or criminal.
The action athand is to avoid being shot.
We have to leave the demanding of rights until we secure your safety to enjoy those rights first. Jamaica nolding the blade and the US is holding th ehandle..<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Natral</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

It's not for me to question the motives of people on this board, but I see an assumption that seems to underlie the discussion of Dudus whenever it comes up on this board, and that is: extradition requests from the US must be honoured at all times, without question, and without delay. If this is the case, then it's not a request, but a demand. </div></div>

Thank you for putting it so eloquently,if you listen to some people on this board you would think that simply because the US put in an extradition request it should be adhered to instantly without question by the jamaican government.
The last time I looked jamaica was and is still a sovereign country,it has the right to question,or ask for clarification on any judicial matters regarding one of its citizens being extradited to a foreign power.
And in my humble opinion,even if jamaica did refused the extradition request(which it hasnt as yet)so what,..the US does not have a fast track reciprocal extradition to jamaica of *its* citizens,...why should jamaica bow and scrape for the US as soon as it clicks its fingers. </div></div>

[Dyoll_73]

Re: dem really still a hold onto

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We have to leave the demanding of rights until we secure your safety to enjoy those rights first. </div></div>

Only a short-sighted fool would trade his rights for a little safety. And soon, the absence of those very rights will eventually ensure the loss of that little safety. Then again, you don't know what the hell you're talking about anyway.

[Dr.Dudd]

Re: dem really still a hold onto

Wow!! you mean that?!?!
The world seem to be overflowing with people who are shortsighted fools who are still living and reproducing offspring who may just be as ...<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We have to leave the demanding of rights until we secure your safety to enjoy those rights first. </div></div>

Only a short-sighted fool would trade his rights for a little safety. And soon, the absence of those very rights will eventually ensure the loss of that little safety. Then again, you don't know what the hell you're talking about anyway. </div></div>

[britisha]

Re: dem really still a hold onto

[Emperah]

Re: dem really still a hold onto

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Meesamewan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> </div></div>

an yuh did miss de bess pawt but CB dip har two longhan dem eenya

[Leddih]

Re: dem really still a hold onto

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... a Government willing stand up for the Rights of Jamaicans? </div></div>

You really don't believe that's what's happening, right?

[Tuff Gong]

Re: dem really still a hold onto

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Leddih</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tuff Gong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... a Government willing stand up for the Rights of Jamaicans? </div></div>

You really don't believe that's what's happening, right? </div></div>.<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">...at least to z worl.</span>

My support for this action comes with a few caveats.

A. This not the first time that Bruce Golding has done so and make the Comrades look like a bunch of grovelling USA Lap Dogs.

B. It would have been great if he had done so for the rest of Jamaicans including the 5 murdered by the State in Tivoli Gardens when the JLP took over in 2008.

C. the JLP is never going to win in the court of public opinion and Brice Gelding made it worse by the inept Cabinet that he has appointed. As the debate in the House today proved, there are certain JLP Leaders who have brains and gumption to deal with important matters, very few are in the Cabinet but the talents and potential of others are wasted because of their non-utilization in the day to day activities of the Cabinet.

[Leddih]

Re: dem really still a hold onto

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Natral</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the US does not have a fast track reciprocal extradition to jamaica of *its* citizens</div></div>

Has this ever been tested?

[neutral]

Re: dem really still a hold onto

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Leddih</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Natral</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the US does not have a fast track reciprocal extradition to jamaica of *its* citizens</div></div>

Has this ever been tested? </div></div>


Not heard of any cases where an extradition request from jamaica to the US for a US citizen has been adhered to as quickly as some would like to see dudus extradited.

[RichD]

Re: dem really still a hold onto

<span style="font-weight: bold">PM stares down US
</span>
Says evidence presented against ‘Dudus’ obtained illegally

BY LYNFORD SIMPSON Observer writer [email protected]

Wednesday, March 03, 2010

PRIME Minister Bruce Golding yesterday stoutly defended his administration’s decision not to extradite Tivoli Gardens strongman Christopher ‘Dudus’ Coke and boldly asserted that he was prepared to lose political capital by resisting the Americans’ request because, he said, it was based on evidence that was illegally obtained.

At the same time, Golding said that Kingston had indicated to Washington that if it has other evidence against Coke, “the procurement and disclosure of which were not in violation of Jamaican law”, the justice minister would be prepared to accept that evidence and issue the necessary authority to proceed.

G

However, he told the Parliament that no such evidence has up to now been presented.

Giving an outline of the Coke case, Golding said the extradition request was received on August 25, 2009. “There were aspects of the case and the procedures employed that were abnormal, and the Government, consistent with the provisions of the Extradition Treaty, sought clarification and additional information,” he said. “In most instances, however, these peculiarities would not, by themselves, prevent the request from being proceeded with.”

The prime minister said that in one important respect, however, the evidence supporting the extradition request violated the Interception of Communications Act which, he pointed out, makes strict provisions for the manner in which intercepted communications may be obtained and disclosed.

“So serious an offence is this violation that the penalty provided by law is a maximum fine of $5 million or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years, or to both such fine and imprisonment,” Golding said.

“I’m not defending the wrongdoing of any person, but I will say this. If I have to pay a political price for it I’m going to hold a position that constitutional rights do not begin at Liguanea. That’s not where they start,” said Golding.

The United States Embassy in Kingston is located in Liguanea.

Coke, who runs Tivoli Gardens, a stronghold of the ruling Jamaica Labour Party, is wanted by the US Government for alleged gun and drugs trafficking.

The Government’s refusal so far to start processing the extradition request has annoyed the Americans and Monday, in its Narcotics Control Strategy Report, the US State Department issued a stinging criticism of the Golding administration, questioning Jamaica’s commitment to law enforcement co-operation.

The State Department also charged that the extradition request was subjected to “unexplained disclosure of law enforcement information to the press, and unfounded allegations questioning the US’ compliance with the MLAT (Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty) and Jamaican law”.

But in his address to the legislature yesterday, Golding rejected the assertions and argued that the justice minister, Dorothy Lightbourne — who has borne the brunt of the criticism for the administration’s failure to extradite Coke — has a duty to satisfy herself that extradition proceedings conform to the provisions of Jamaican law.

“As minister, and, especially as attorney general, she cannot authorise processes which she knows to be in violation of Jamaican law,” said Golding.

In his continued defence of Lightbourne, Golding, in response to a question from Opposition spokesman on national security Peter Bunting, said: “It was not intended by this Parliament when the legislation was framed that the minister was to be some lubricated conduit through which extradition requests were to automatically pass. A minister has to satisfy herself or himself that the processes that were used in submitting the requests are in conformity with Jamaican law.”

For his part, Dr Peter Phillips, a former national security minister, asked on several occasions whether it would not be more appropriate for the courts to decide how the evidence against Coke was obtained.

“Would it be more appropriately and transparently settled in a court of Jamaica rather than by a politically appointed minister who is going to be expressing a judgement on someone that is deemed, at least in the words of this report, as someone who is politically affiliated to the same party that she (the minister) is affiliated?” Phillips asked.

“Would the interest of transparency and justice not be better served in that regard?” he repeated to strong objections from the Government side. It was at this point that the proceedings went downhill, with Phillips being verbally abused and, in retaliation, called a Government member a criminal. He quickly withdrew the comment.

[RichD]

Re: dem really still a hold onto

<span style="font-weight: bold">Don't sacrifice Jamaica for 'Dudus', lawyer warns
</span>
BY KARYL WALKER Crime/Court Co-ordinator [email protected]

Wednesday, March 03, 2010

UNITED States-based attorney Professor David Rowe, yesterday warned the Jamaica Labour Party Government to be careful not to put the fate of an entire nation on the 'fortunes' of one individual.

Rowe's warning comes a day after Washington lashed Kingston for its failure to extradite Tivoli Gardens strongman Christopher 'Dudus' Coke to face drug trafficking charges in the US, and questioned Jamaica's commitment to law enforcement co-operation.

&quot;The fate of one person will jeopardise the bi-lateral relationship. Jamaica wants to be a part of the international community; Jamaica does not want to be some backwater where we are subject to the whims and fancies of drug dealers,&quot; Rowe, a Jamaican, told the Observer.

Prime Minister Bruce Golding, speaking in Parliament yesterday, hinted that his Government was not keen on signing the extradition order as evidence collected against Coke bordered on illegal.

But Rowe said Golding's stance could have dire consequences for the nation's security and economy.

&quot;Jamaica's income comes from the overseas community and tourism. The US relationship is vital to the Jamaican economy. It is of great importance that the Government be careful about how it responds to an extradition request of that nature,&quot; Rowe said.

Rowe was also critical of the JLP Government's unwillingness to arrest Coke and allow the matter to be heard by a local judge as has been the practice in the past.

&quot;Why hasn't that individual been arrested and face the courts? Why are we trying to subvert the process?&quot; Rowe asked. &quot;This country ought to observe its obligation under the extradition treaty and in doing so we would preserve the bi-lateral process and not create a crisis which is what we are now doing,&quot; said Rowe.

At the same time, he called for the resignations of Attorney General and Justice Minister Dorothy Lightbourne, as well as Senator Tom Tavares-Finson.

Finson, he said, was burdened by a conflict of interest as he is Coke's attorney and also a Government member of the Senate.

He said that Lightbourne, who has the responsibility of signing extradition requests, should do the honourable thing and resign because of her failure to give the go-ahead for Coke to face charges in the US.

Meanwhile, Chairman of the Opposition People's National Party, Robert Pickersgill, accused Golding of being indecisive on the Dudus extradition request.

&quot;He (Golding) talks beautifully around the subject,&quot; Pickersgill told the Observer.

The US State Department has accused Coke of conspiracy to distribute marijuana and cocaine, as well as conspiracy to illegally traffic firearms.

The United States, last August, asked Jamaica to arrest

Coke and extradite him to the Southern District of New York to answer to the alleged charges.

[Tuff Gong]

Re: dem really still a hold onto

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RichD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">PM stares down US
</span>
Says evidence presented against ‘Dudus’ obtained illegally

BY LYNFORD SIMPSON Observer writer [email protected]

Wednesday, March 03, 2010 </div></div>


I made a video of the headlines, plus Monday's audio from Nationwide News to the Splinta Riddim:

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">Bruce answers the USA on Dudus extradition - Splinta Riddim</span>

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/LAJEmnqUHlM"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/LAJEmnqUHlM" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

[Panajar]

Jamaica risks being branded a rogue state

Perchance Prime Minister Golding missed, underestimated or rejected the arguments of many in the society, recent events should, by now, have concentrated his mind on the potential dangers of his Government's inexplicable dithering over the Christopher 'Dudus' Coke affair.

<span style="font-size: 17pt">Jamaica, Mr Golding must be aware, is skirting closely to being branded by the United States as an institutionally corrupt country and galloping towards being a failed state.
</span>
The prime minister in Parliament yesterday indicated that the US has still not yet provided certain information to satisfy Jamaica to sign the extradition order for Coke. He has also rejected some of the arguments relating to the case in America's latest report on its relations with other countries, in the fight against narcotics smuggling and money laundering.

But we offer to the Government and Jamaica generally this statement by the State Department about our country:

&quot;Indeed, Jamaica's delay in processing the US extradition request for a major suspected drug and firearms trafficker with reputed ties to the ruling party highlights the potential depth of corruption in the Government.&quot; <span style="font-size: 17pt">The Americans are providing no insulation for the political executive.</span>

The administration may claim that this broad sweep by the United States represents peeve on the part of Washington for its failure to get its way in the extradition of Christopher 'Dudus' Coke, the reputed 'don' of West Kingston. In that sense, the attempt will be to sell this report as an attack on Jamaica's sovereignty.

Such an appeal to nationalist sentiment and jingoism, however, is not likely to hold. For the majority of Jamaicans, we believe, are not only embarrassed at how the Government has managed the Dudus Coke affair, but perceive it as a betrayal of the reform agenda that formed the basis of Mr Golding's ascension to office.

He promised to be new and different, to break the nexus between criminality and politics in Jamaica and dismantle those zones of political exclusion, which are branded here as garrison communities. Questions were raised when Mr Golding chose West Kingston, home of the JLP's perceived street 'command centre', as his parliamentary constituency.

Wiggled and obfuscated

We, however, preferred to judge the PM on specific actions, like his response to America's request for the extradition of Coke. The Government has wiggled and obfuscated, asking for more and better particulars from Washington rather than allowing the domestic courts to rule on whether the Americans have made a prima facie case against Coke.

<span style="color: #FF0000">In the circumstances, it is not an unreasonable assumption that narrowly partisan matters, thinly sheathed in security concerns, are being allowed to trump the law, international obligations and the moral politics promised by Mr Golding. There is no obviously fundamental principle at stake here.</span>

Jamaica has much at stake in this matter, starting with its global reputation, which is important that we see to repair. But there are other practical issues for Jamaica, a poor country that for no great moral reason, has pitted itself against the world's most powerful nation. <span style="color: #FF0000">The consequence today may be the visas of influential official</span>s, although Prime Minister Golding said the issue relating to a local businessman had nothing to do with the Dudus affair. The consequence tomorrow may be negative effects on economic agreements.

here

Amazing that JlP supporters going around professing Dudus &quot;innocence&quot; When he was described as criminal,and had his name &quot;carry go a station&quot; by none other than the architect of Tivoli Garden SEEHAGA, even thought he did so for his own selfish reasons.A choir boy cannot become a don anywhere more so, a don for the mother of all garrisons.

[remo]

Re: Jamaica risks being branded a rogue state

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Humano</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dr.Dudd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We have to leave the demanding of rights until we secure your safety to enjoy those rights first. </div></div>

Only a short-sighted fool would trade his rights for a little safety. And soon, the absence of those very rights will eventually ensure the loss of that little safety. Then again, you don't know what the hell you're talking about anyway. </div></div>


Agree with this the great Peter Tosh said I don't want no Peace I need equal rights and justice first.......
and the rogue state comment make me laugh Uncle Sam is the only rogue state the world has ever known...
you only have to observe what has been going on in the U.S.
House and Senate the last year to see exactly what a Corrupt government looks like the Jamaican government is correct in telling them to go Guh Ded A Bush....

[SmoothOperator]

Re: dem really still a hold onto

I for one am pleased to see the government of Jamaica standing up for Jamaica's sovereignty and the rights of Jamaican citizens. If the US is in violation of Jamaica's laws the government's action here is justified and I wholeheartedly support it's efforts to protect the rights of Jamaicans. With that said the government needs to be consistent in it's defence of all citizens, rich or poor, JLP strongman or PNP strongman, police or ordinary citizen if it's defence here is not to be seen as exceptional or favoritism to a party supporter. Respect - A so mi see it.