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Re: Manley
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=Wahalla]
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and course as I am a liar::::: Things did not happen you all need to have a website as is pure lie Wahalla tell. .. I forgot to mention that I had got some day wuk at Minimum wage $40 dollars a week I recall in that morrass planting rice ! This involved draining some of the morass. It did predate manley..My father who too had laboured on other rice projects in the 30'sas a boy, then he saw the attempts in the 50's told me at the time it would not work, his father my grandfatehr told of failure, he told me of attempts in his granfatehrs time..(This is the historical attempt at the 1900 to start market gardens in the 1900 with scotish labourers). When he and other locals told their experience to those poltical hacks.. sorry those highly experienced appointees that never ever had lived the life.. you know what they were told.. where were their records ? Theuir expertise was not valid compared the same superiority of idealism !!! The 1970's equavalent of the show me the website!
For those who love poor people so much seem for ever to refrain when poor people tell their experience::::<span style="color: #FF0000">It is all anecdotal. Where are the statistics to back it up. they are not mentioned in the offical documents... </span>
still I am peasant from peasants who long learnt the validity of traditions.. (I must mentioned to my sons so 5 generations of Wahalla will attempt to grow rice in the great morras!!!..
I am ambivalent about Chinese involvmetn...
I recall when he decided to expand it. I recall that there was alot more attempted but the initial clearance was over extended.. fires got away, allegators got toasted. .and all thsi stuff was not reported.. It was not known as that time no blogs twitter intenet...
Chinese team to visit BRUMDEC </div></div>
I am neither deny your experience or calling you a liar, anecdotes are exactly that - personal and biographical. Was their scarcity under Manly - SURE.
According to your own story This misery has been going on for several generations ante-dating Manley's Government If so then the CAUSE could not have anything to do with Manley?
In short I am <span style="font-weight: bold">not disputing your experience</span>, just where you place CAUSE.
</div></div>
My complaint is that Manley and his cadres were incompentent.. arrogant.. naieve and down right stupid.... their claims were false, their therories were juvinile.. their implementation odf rheir theories were corruptupt. My expereince led me to that conslusion and the dismisal as mere anecdodatal and the demand for stastics demonstrates the identical stance that Manley cadres made when they were challenged. And my story of rice farming is one in common. As a day labourer I appriciated the minimum wage...As a worker I regret the migration that led to the exodus of doctors...
One other story to illustrate: The Manley goverment as the suggestion of the headmaster of munro college decided to use the storage capacity of the tanks at Munro. The head masters proposal was partially for his own benifit but it would benifit the community by supplying, the . He also offered some of the land to build additional water storage facilities... What did they do lay pipes out of the schools storage tanks that were bigger than the pipes going in thus reducing the amount of water. when the man point out the idosay the standard reply was "yu wan keep deh black man down".. Who ran the water boards ? This plan today would be ideal it would have increased production in South St E signficantly.. What happened.. it does not matter its anecdotal and the whole story is CIA propoganda.
Is there a pattern emerging..? Incompentence... The fall in sugar production in 74-75 was due to increased raccooning not replanting and that was a deliberate gover,emt policy.... Not CIA.. The fact there was a fall in doctors who migrated was not due to the cia.. But I actually recall a speech Manley made where he pointed out that there was an inequlaity in payement betweemn doctors and labourers and he wanted to close the gap, by discouraging private practice... That was not the CIA doing... the ban on american apples.. while theoretical good.. made no sense when returning residents were harrased at the air port and literally things were taken from them. That was not cia propoganda.
I recall a family member in Spain sending use Turron one Christmas .. and that was held up for 12 months because the post office could not decide what to do.. <span style="color: #FF0000">it was not chocolate, it was not a forgien sweetie</span>... I recall alot more that was down to the Manleis and his ilk Xenophobia.. or that speech in 76 that Jamaican right wing emigres were trying to over throw the goverment. That was a beauty.. That was no doubt done by the CIA planting having a voice double... No doubt the speech that he gave the week before the election and the entire election campaign in 76 insulting the IMF was sound fiscal strategy that in a month he would beging negotiating with them post election.
Look the IMF was never meant as a institution for hte betterment of the former colonies it was designed specifically for the rebuilding of europe post WWII.. So then insulting them is hardly the methodology for getting a sound deal..
Health care
Education
Agriculture
Small buinesses
Food distribution
Mass Migration of the middle classes
All of this demonstrated the incompetnece of Manley and his ilk... But the greatest moment that we should never ever forget as it was the moment that IMHO is equal only to the murders in Morant Bay in 18 65.. was not the orange street fire, not spy robinson.. Was Green Bay!!! At that moment the PNP stepped over the line and went from being changers of the police from a force to protect the Jamaican poor to one that continued to use the JCF as a means of shooting poor black people.
There was a moment between 72 and Green Bay where every thing looked good.. But Green Bay stripped away.. every thing.. The thing that got me was that two Jamaican national footballers were killed by the police.. At the instruction of thje Minister of Justice.. Cause aint no way that operation went ahead without his say so!!! So Dudley Thompson all his pan afriucan rhetoric did exactly what those he disdained.. Killed poor black people with military forces. Had Manley any back bone and moral certainity he would have fired Dudley and resigned... After Green Bay our justices system was compromised from the idealism that 72 had come with! (But I dont have stastics or reports to back that up!)
My contact with the Jamican goeremtne was minimal...
i asserted that after 24 months lendlease began winding down.. That they attempted to bring into production land that was not fit for purpose.. that they actively took over buinesses that the goverment had no expertise in.. The number of estates in private hands were taken over. They ran down the reserch facilities in cattle and citrus... That was not the CIA that was them. Landlease was not what was needed.. and still is not.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: franksterr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[quote=Wahalla]
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">and course as I am a liar::::: Things did not happen you all need to have a website as is pure lie Wahalla tell. .. I forgot to mention that I had got some day wuk at Minimum wage $40 dollars a week I recall in that morrass planting rice ! This involved draining some of the morass. It did predate manley..My father who too had laboured on other rice projects in the 30'sas a boy, then he saw the attempts in the 50's told me at the time it would not work, his father my grandfatehr told of failure, he told me of attempts in his granfatehrs time..(This is the historical attempt at the 1900 to start market gardens in the 1900 with scotish labourers). When he and other locals told their experience to those poltical hacks.. sorry those highly experienced appointees that never ever had lived the life.. you know what they were told.. where were their records ? Theuir expertise was not valid compared the same superiority of idealism !!! The 1970's equavalent of the show me the website!
For those who love poor people so much seem for ever to refrain when poor people tell their experience::::<span style="color: #FF0000">It is all anecdotal. Where are the statistics to back it up. they are not mentioned in the offical documents... </span>
still I am peasant from peasants who long learnt the validity of traditions.. (I must mentioned to my sons so 5 generations of Wahalla will attempt to grow rice in the great morras!!!..
I am ambivalent about Chinese involvmetn...
I recall when he decided to expand it. I recall that there was alot more attempted but the initial clearance was over extended.. fires got away, allegators got toasted. .and all thsi stuff was not reported.. It was not known as that time no blogs twitter intenet...
Chinese team to visit BRUMDEC </div></div>
I am neither deny your experience or calling you a liar, anecdotes are exactly that - personal and biographical. Was their scarcity under Manly - SURE.
According to your own story This misery has been going on for several generations ante-dating Manley's Government If so then the CAUSE could not have anything to do with Manley?
In short I am <span style="font-weight: bold">not disputing your experience</span>, just where you place CAUSE.
</div></div>
My complaint is that Manley and his cadres were incompentent.. arrogant.. naieve and down right stupid.... their claims were false, their therories were juvinile.. their implementation odf rheir theories were corruptupt. My expereince led me to that conslusion and the dismisal as mere anecdodatal and the demand for stastics demonstrates the identical stance that Manley cadres made when they were challenged. And my story of rice farming is one in common. As a day labourer I appriciated the minimum wage...As a worker I regret the migration that led to the exodus of doctors...
One other story to illustrate: The Manley goverment as the suggestion of the headmaster of munro college decided to use the storage capacity of the tanks at Munro. The head masters proposal was partially for his own benifit but it would benifit the community by supplying, the . He also offered some of the land to build additional water storage facilities... What did they do lay pipes out of the schools storage tanks that were bigger than the pipes going in thus reducing the amount of water. when the man point out the idosay the standard reply was "yu wan keep deh black man down".. Who ran the water boards ? This plan today would be ideal it would have increased production in South St E signficantly.. What happened.. it does not matter its anecdotal and the whole story is CIA propoganda.
Is there a pattern emerging..? Incompentence... The fall in sugar production in 74-75 was due to increased raccooning not replanting and that was a deliberate gover,emt policy.... Not CIA.. The fact there was a fall in doctors who migrated was not due to the cia.. But I actually recall a speech Manley made where he pointed out that there was an inequlaity in payement betweemn doctors and labourers and he wanted to close the gap, by discouraging private practice... That was not the CIA doing... the ban on american apples.. while theoretical good.. made no sense when returning residents were harrased at the air port and literally things were taken from them. That was not cia propoganda.
I recall a family member in Spain sending use Turron one Christmas .. and that was held up for 12 months because the post office could not decide what to do.. <span style="color: #FF0000">it was not chocolate, it was not a forgien sweetie</span>... I recall alot more that was down to the Manleis and his ilk Xenophobia.. or that speech in 76 that Jamaican right wing emigres were trying to over throw the goverment. That was a beauty.. That was no doubt done by the CIA planting having a voice double... No doubt the speech that he gave the week before the election and the entire election campaign in 76 insulting the IMF was sound fiscal strategy that in a month he would beging negotiating with them post election.
Look the IMF was never meant as a institution for hte betterment of the former colonies it was designed specifically for the rebuilding of europe post WWII.. So then insulting them is hardly the methodology for getting a sound deal..
Health care
Education
Agriculture
Small buinesses
Food distribution
Mass Migration of the middle classes
All of this demonstrated the incompetnece of Manley and his ilk... But the greatest moment that we should never ever forget as it was the moment that IMHO is equal only to the murders in Morant Bay in 18 65.. was not the orange street fire, not spy robinson.. Was Green Bay!!! At that moment the PNP stepped over the line and went from being changers of the police from a force to protect the Jamaican poor to one that continued to use the JCF as a means of shooting poor black people.
There was a moment between 72 and Green Bay where every thing looked good.. But Green Bay stripped away.. every thing.. The thing that got me was that two Jamaican national footballers were killed by the police.. At the instruction of thje Minister of Justice.. Cause aint no way that operation went ahead without his say so!!! So Dudley Thompson all his pan afriucan rhetoric did exactly what those he disdained.. Killed poor black people with military forces. Had Manley any back bone and moral certainity he would have fired Dudley and resigned... After Green Bay our justices system was compromised from the idealism that 72 had come with! (But I dont have stastics or reports to back that up!)
My contact with the Jamican goeremtne was minimal...
i asserted that after 24 months lendlease began winding down.. That they attempted to bring into production land that was not fit for purpose.. that they actively took over buinesses that the goverment had no expertise in.. The number of estates in private hands were taken over. They ran down the reserch facilities in cattle and citrus... That was not the CIA that was them. Landlease was not what was needed.. and still is not.
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